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Posted: 3/29/2008 10:09:43 AM EST
I need some feedback because a friends dad does not want to take my answer to heart. He got a cd full of manuals and one manual had how to build a lightning link.

I told him that it was a big no no and would be facing 10 years and $250,000. in fines if got caught.

Can anyone come up with the actual federal ruling that bans the manufacture of such items without holding some sort of manufactures FFL.


Thank you


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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:11:35 AM EST
that would be a very poor decision on his part. To be fair, you can't always save stupid people from themselves. I bet even if you give him the regs he is gonna build it anyway.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:12:37 AM EST
He can't do it legally...period. Not as a private citizen.


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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:13:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 10:16:04 AM EST by mr_camera_man]
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:13:37 AM EST
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:14:37 AM EST
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:22:04 AM EST
Sorry not getting the connection. What is a lightning link

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:22:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.



The hypocrisy of ARFCOM.


Quite the conundrum.



There are people on here that do manufacture their own Lightning Links and Machine guns.

We just do not talk about it.
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Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I'm going to pull this thread over and conduct a field sobriety test.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:23:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
Sorry not getting the connection. What is a lightning link


essentially a piece of hacksaw blade that will take away all your freedom.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:24:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
Sorry not getting the connection. What is a lightning link


A lightning link is a device that allows an Ar15 to become an M16.

A LL is a machinegun.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:25:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 10:26:36 AM EST by dragongoddess]
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


Originally Posted By 20iner:

A lightning link is a device that allows an Ar15 to become an M16.

A LL is a machinegun.



Ah yes. Now that explains it all.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:26:10 AM EST
It's illegal. Though illegal gun interdiction is even less successful than illegal drug interdiction, so I wouldn't worry about it unless you're a drooling moron.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:26:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


Click here
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:26:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html
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Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I'm going to pull this thread over and conduct a field sobriety test.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:27:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.




used to create full auto with an SP1 bolt carrier.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:29:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


firearmdeals.com/Dons/LL08122007_%20001.jpg

used to create full auto with an SP1 bolt carrier.


And you can have a legal one for about $8K.

If we could get all the folks who make illegal MG's to push to get rid of 922(o) we might get some where.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:30:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 10:32:12 AM EST by mmajunkie]
Beat by atleast 4 posts, NM.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:31:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.


Exactly.

He is within his Natural Rights, and the 2nd Amendment guarantees him the right to have a lightning link. The federal government has however outlawed that right. He has to make a decision, and as long as you've made him aware of the potential consequences it's really none of your business at this point.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:37:17 AM EST
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:39:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.


The folks who don't do it legally, while there is still a legal way to do it...

Make things harder for those who do follow the rules, and push us closer to a day where NO ONE can do it legally...
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:41:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 10:41:44 AM EST by GhostRing]

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.


Bullsh*t.

Then come haul me away.
I've got tubing, hacksaws, welders, sheetmetal, etc. all over the shop.
I am - as are MANY, fully aware what the manufacturing neccesary to
create many "illegal items" yet I do not act on them.

Why? Because I like my freedom.
Knowledge is not illegal - acting on it, is.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:42:18 AM EST
If he gets a license as a Class 3 (?) manufacturer, he can build all of them that he desires. He just can't sell them, since they can't be added to the NFA registry.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:43:21 AM EST
Class 2

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:44:17 AM EST
IANAL, but IIRC if you dont own an AR type rifle you could make lightning links all you want and call them bottle openers.

Its only if you also have a rifle with them that you that they can show constructive intent.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:45:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stilpo:
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.


Love it or leave it.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:48:07 AM EST
First time I've ever heard of / seen such a thing.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:48:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Stilpo:
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.


Love it or leave it.


or change it...
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be here,
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:50:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 10:51:49 AM EST by GhostRing]

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
IANAL, but IIRC if you dont own an AR type rifle you could make lightning links all you want and call them bottle openers.

Its only if you also have a rifle with them that you that they can show constructive intent.



No.

You can own a pre-83 unregistered drop-in piece without a rifle.

But you WILL be guilty until proven innocent.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:50:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
The folks who don't do it legally, while there is still a legal way to do it...

Make things harder for those who do follow the rules, and push us closer to a day where NO ONE can do it legally...


We as free men have Natural Rights that allow us to keep and bear arms.

Any laws restricting or infringing on that right are by definition illegal. Especially in the United States, where it is Constitutionally protected.

A room full of crooked and ignorant politicians, elected or otherwise, cannot alter this fact. No amount of law or regulation will EVER make it anything less than a human rights violation to regulate or restrict the keeping of arms.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:51:23 AM EST
so then is owning just the SP1 bolt and a rifle illegal? a rifle wont fire full auto without a LL AND correct timing

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:54:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
so then is owning just the SP1 bolt and a rifle illegal? a rifle wont fire full auto without a LL AND correct timing


An SP1 or an M16 bolt is perfectly legal.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:54:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.


The folks who don't do it legally, while there is still a legal way to do it...

Make things harder for those who do follow the rules, and push us closer to a day where NO ONE can do it legally...



Bullshit. I follow the current "law" because I have a family and career to worry about. However, if everybody had the same cower and bow philosophy as you proclaim , society would have never progressed out of the dark ages.

I wonder what the Founding fathers, Ghandi, MLK and Rosa Parks would think of your idea of freedom.

Your concept of liberty is exactly 100 degrees off. Freedom is gained not by being a good little subject, but by pushing at the limits and sometimes surpassing them.


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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:55:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.


Bullsh*t.

Then come haul me away.
I've got tubing, hacksaws, welders, sheetmetal, etc. all over the shop.
I am - as are MANY, fully aware what the manufacturing neccesary to
create many "illegal items" yet I do not act on them.

Why? Because I like my freedom.
Knowledge is not illegal - acting on it, is.


Hopefully the ATF doesn't take the view that you are in "constructive possession" of one because you have all the materials to build one. I'm kidding of course.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:55:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Stilpo:
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.


Love it or leave it.



What the fuck does that mean? So if they legalized slavery, started banning books, and housing soliders in peoples homes you would throw out your one liner.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:56:43 AM EST
This is in Florida, right????

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 10:56:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


firearmdeals.com/Dons/LL08122007_%20001.jpg

used to create full auto with an SP1 bolt carrier.


And you can have a legal one for about $8K.

If we could get all the folks who make illegal MG's to push to get rid of 922(o) we might get some where.


Per ounce, do you think that would make it the most expensive weapon part in existence (outside of a nuclear bomb assembly)?
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:02:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By ChiefPilot:
I always find these kinds of discussions interesting, because many of the same "boating accident / cold, dead hands" folks are the same ones saying not to do it/violation of federal law/etc. Something doesn't square there.


The folks who don't do it legally, while there is still a legal way to do it...

Make things harder for those who do follow the rules, and push us closer to a day where NO ONE can do it legally...



One might also say doing it on your own is legal, and the NFA/"86' MG Ban" is an illegal law.

And to me its not really a matter of doing it legally because I cant really afford 8k+ for a little peice of metal the gov says I can have if I pay them a tax. Just having a MG isnt worth losing 10 years of my life so I wont do it, but the gov knew what would happen if they closed the registry. Since the $200 dollar tax became doable for most people instead of making the tax ~$3200 (again pricing the average person out) they just close the registry which also prices the average person out, and eventually through use/time there wont be any useful MG's in the country.

So in essence its a ban unless you're wealthy or want to take a 2nd mortgage out.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:03:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
kinda hoping for something a little more descriptive than a hack saw blade.


firearmdeals.com/Dons/LL08122007_%20001.jpg

used to create full auto with an SP1 bolt carrier.


And you can have a legal one for about $8K.

If we could get all the folks who make illegal MG's to push to get rid of 922(o) we might get some where.


I don't know, all of those smart bombs have high dollar electronics in them, so its a toss up
Per ounce, do you think that would make it the most expensive weapon part in existence (outside of a nuclear bomb assembly)?
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:08:56 AM EST
I'd suggest waiting until AFTER the scotus gives the individual right ruling - THEN he can volunteer to be the strict scrutinty/incorporated/machine gun tester.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:09:15 AM EST
On gunbroker, a local shop had 80 percent lightning link for sale. It is now a common known fact that they are under investigation by the ATF.

I would not own one, nor would I even keep a manual in my home that explained how to make one. All it takes is one "incident", and you entire gun collection, library, and accessories are under complete and utter scrutiny. A saved file on your hard drive, a page or two in an otherwise legal manual, a bookmark on how to do it on your browser. These will all get you prosecuted in Federal Court on conspiracy to manufacture a machinegun.

There are many many excuses for law enforcement to be able to take a peek. Should you really piss someone off, the moment the enforcement authority that's rummaging through your house ( cause ya pissed off the neighbor, and he called DFS, saying there were drugs and guns in the house), and they see any firearm, then the ATF get called in. Think it doesnt happen? Think again.

Sure, you may beat the rap, AFTER you spent 50 to 60 K on a lawyer to fight it in the system. Even taht isn't a gaurantee that your gonna get off clean anyways.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:19:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stilpo:
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.

Or not.
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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:22:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2008 11:24:42 AM EST by 1Andy2]

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.


Bullshit.

eta: Possession of KNOWLEDGE is reason to suspect you of nothing. Nor is it indicative of intent.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 11:44:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.


Bullshit.

eta: Possession of KNOWLEDGE is reason to suspect you of nothing. Nor is it indicative of intent.


If your attorney possesses "knowledge" that you've been served by the FBI with one of their "home brew" super secret warrants, he (and you) are in violation of the PATRIOT act.

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Link Posted: 3/29/2008 1:10:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
Bump method, the poor man's auto.

Just having information on building full auto parts along with a scrap piece of metal laying around your house, could be considered intent. Abandon the idea.


Bullshit.

eta: Possession of KNOWLEDGE is reason to suspect you of nothing. Nor is it indicative of intent.


If your attorney possesses "knowledge" that you've been served by the FBI with one of their "home brew" super secret warrants, he (and you) are in violation of the PATRIOT act.



Huh?

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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 8:46:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Stilpo:
Isn't America grand, a man can lose 10 years of his life for 2 ounces of metal shaped in a certain way.


Love it or leave it.



What the fuck does that mean? So if they legalized slavery, started banning books, and housing soliders in peoples homes you would throw out your one liner.



I think he would.
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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 8:49:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2008 8:50:29 AM EST by IAMLEGEND]
Bottle openers?

Who went to the clink for making and selling the bottle openers?

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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 9:25:00 AM EST
Not if he is a fucking rap star. 1500 hours community service and a year in prison.

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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 9:25:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Bottle openers?

Who went to the clink for making and selling the bottle openers?



Well you know the ATF's position on shoestrings.
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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 9:25:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/30/2008 9:26:36 AM EST by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Bottle openers?

Who went to the clink for making and selling the bottle openers?



Well you know the ATF's position on shoestrings.



Yeah...



ETA: But there was an ARFCOMMER who got nailed for bottle openers...seriously.

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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 10:37:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Bottle openers?

Who went to the clink for making and selling the bottle openers?



Well you know the ATF's position on shoestrings.



Yeah...



ETA: But there was an ARFCOMMER who got nailed for bottle openers...seriously.



Link or I call
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Link Posted: 3/30/2008 10:45:36 AM EST
If it were perfectly legal to own a machine gun, no paperwork required, no tax stamps, I still don't know if I'd be really interested in one. Ammo costs too much!!!
Maybe a F/A 1022 would be neat, but thats about it.

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