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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/7/2001 8:39:58 PM EDT
I just saw one of the more unseemly sights of this whole tragady on MSNBC just now. Two women, widows of men who worked for Canter-Fitzgerald and were killed on 9/11, were on complaining about the charity programs set up for them since. They werent complaining about the diversion of funds like Bill O'Riely, no. They were complaining about how they had to go out and actually [i]apply[/i] for these funds instead of having someone come by and deliver it for them. One of them actually said "Well the City of New York called us and invited us to the memorial service at Ground Zero- why dont the charities have a list and do the same?" They were complaining about having to go out in person and show ID that they arent frauds! Excuse me? What do these women want, people to deliver the money to them? The did the same thing a month ago to the poor guy who runs Canter/Fitzgerald, because he went on TV and promised to take care of all the families- and the money didnt arrive the next day. That he was so "callous" as to actually take a whole month to have accountants and lawyers (which he had to hire cause 70% of his in house staff were dead) and go over what was left of the assets of the company and make a plan to take care of these people and their kids in a sustainable manner for the next 15-20 years without destroying the firm. Look this is charity, not a entitlement program, were donating so that these people can have a home and a car and pay bills and put their kids through school. We are not doing it to enable them to support their pre 9/11 lifestyle. I hope someone like O'Riely has the balls to follow these women and make sure that fund money doesn't go to support their lifestyle and their second husbands. I just found these women to be soo aggrivating. Where is the gratitude? Where is the humility? Its not like someone, under these circumstances, is going to forclose on their six figure morgages and come tow the BMW and the Grand Cherokee away in the next couple months... Sorry just had to vent...
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 5:37:44 AM EDT
"Gimme gimme gimme I need some more . . . Gimme gimme gimme Don't ask what for!" - Black Flag Seriously the survivors are developing a sense of entitlement because the entire country is scrambling over itself to kiss their ass.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 6:42:48 AM EDT
No ArmdLbrl, I see it in a different way... These people lost their loved ones in a terror, their life have been shatter, and when the bill collectors come knocking and kid to be fed...They need all the help they can. Yes, if I can, I would come deliver the help they need myself to their door. You ask for gratitude?...What have you done lately to help?....If not, then show some sympathy and understanding.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:01:26 AM EDT
Hundreds of thousands of American families have suffered the loss of a loved one who served in our armed forces, and died in battle. Some lost MORE tahn one at a time. Most they got was a nice flag in a wooden display case. They did OK. They survived.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:01:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:06:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:09:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle: No ArmdLbrl, I see it in a different way... These people lost their loved ones in a terror, their life have been shatter, and when the bill collectors come knocking and kid to be fed...They need all the help they can. Yes, if I can, I would come deliver the help they need myself to their door. You ask for gratitude?...What have you done lately to help?....If not, then show some sympathy and understanding.
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Yes their lives have been shattered and charitable help is nice but if this were to happen to me, my family would be fine financially. Why you ask? because I took out life insurance on myself and my wife equal to five years annual salary as soon as we had our first child. What ever happened to taking care of your own. If you do not plan ahead you have no one to blame but yourself. Just my humble opinion.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:12:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:27:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:30:24 AM EDT
Hiram - Here's my take - I can understand that people have bills to pay, and that when the bread winner is MURDERED unexpectedly, it kinda makes things tough. So I'm all for helping people get thru in the short term. But I fear that in "setting these people up for life" we will steal from them the MOST precious gift they might ever receive - the JOY of scrimping and scratching by, barely making it, until one day they can look back and say "Yeah, I made it. I did it." Let me illustrate. My parents paid for a bout half my college education. I worked while in college 20 hours per week, in addition to a 18+ hour course load. I was VERY busy. But thru the adversity, I learned how to prioritize my time. I learned discipline and self-reliance. When it came time to buy my first home, NO ONE gave me ONE red cent. Not teh gov't, no low interest loans, not my parents. No gifts, no loans, nothing. Me and my wife did it all. Scrimped, saved, penny pinched. Pleasant? NO. But would I change any of it?? NO WAY. In essence, we'll be creating trust fund babies. Some of the MOST annoying people I have ever known are the ones whose college was paid for, who were given money to buy a home, who were shielded from adversity all their lives. In providing them HUGE $$$, we ROB them of lifes most precious gift - the self-esteem and knowledge gained by surviving adversity. In fact, I'll go a bit further. THIS has been the greatest shortcoming of the "greatest generation." They provided TOO WELL for their children. The "greatest generation" BECAME the greatest generation NOT during or becasue they fought WW2, but becasue they survived the Great Depression. Adversity forged the charachter they would need to fight a great evil. No such adversity was available to forge this generations charachter. And so you have Bill Clinton, shaped by excess and luxury. And you have these bed-wetting Liberals criticizing teh war effort because we haven't captured bin Laden in the first 36 hours. And you have women criticising those who want to give thme $$$ cuz they ain't doing it FAST enuf, and becasue they have to fill out a piece of paper to get their money. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:30:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: In essence, we'll be creating trust fund babies. Some of the MOST annoying people I have ever known are the ones whose college was paid for, who were given money to buy a home, who were shielded from adversity all their lives.
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We call these people 'limousine liberals'
In providing them HUGE $$$, we ROB them of lifes most precious gift - the self-esteem and knowledge gained by surviving adversity.
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You are not kidding, they will never get the concept of personal resposibility.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:31:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Hiram - Here's my take - I can understand that people have bills to pay, and that when the bread winner is MURDERED unexpectedly, it kinda makes things tough. So I'm all for helping people get thru in the short term. But I fear that in "setting these people up for life" we will steal from them the MOST precious gift they might ever receive - the JOY of scrimping and scratching by, barely making it, until one day they can look back and say "Yeah, I made it. I did it." Let me illustrate. My parents paid for a bout half my college education. I worked while in college 20 hours per week, in addition to a 18+ hour course load. I was VERY busy. But thru the adversity, I learned how to prioritize my time. I learned discipline and self-reliance. When it came time to buy my first home, NO ONE gave me ONE red cent. Not teh gov't, no low interest loans, not my parents. No gifts, no loans, nothing. Me and my wife did it all. Scrimped, saved, penny pinched. Pleasant? NO. But would I change any of it?? NO WAY. In essence, we'll be creating trust fund babies. Some of the MOST annoying people I have ever known are the ones whose college was paid for, who were given money to buy a home, who were shielded from adversity all their lives. In providing them HUGE $$$, we ROB them of lifes most precious gift - the self-esteem and knowledge gained by surviving adversity.
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Well said! Sometimes my friends (especially my girlfriend) ask why my parents don't help me out with college. I always tell them I don't want my parents to. I love the fact that i am a self made man. I have scholarships and loans. i work 30-40 hours a week and bust my ass all the damn time. But it makes me stronger than the pitiful crybabies i see all around me in college. I love looking in my safe and knowing that I bought it all. I paid for college. I paid for my computer. I pay for rent. I pay for my car payments. I am an individual. I rely on nobody. Great post. Shawn
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:43:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By srv656s: I love the fact that i am a self made man. I have scholarships and loans. i work 30-40 hours a week and bust my ass all the damn time. But it makes me stronger than the pitiful crybabies i see all around me in college. I love looking in my safe and knowing that I bought it all. I paid for college. I paid for my computer. I pay for rent. I pay for my car payments. I am an individual. I rely on nobody. Great post. Shawn
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Well said yer own sef!!!! Self-made man = pain in the ass, (at least for those who would try to make us knuckle under.) yeah, I'm a self-made man. I am one. I know it. I'm proud of it. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:02:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:06:58 AM EDT
Yes, Garandman, us self made guys have the fullest taste of life.....we see things that others don't see.....we have hit rock bottom, climb out and then more. And the greatest gift we got of all is.....knowledge.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:07:52 AM EDT
Hiram - Keep your chin up, brother. The investment you make now pays off HUGE dividends later. To their credit, there have been a few people who lost loved ones on 9/11 who have turned down Red Cross aid, deferring to those more needy than themselves. In short, the victims can either CHOOSE to be victims, or they can look at this as an opportunity to test their own mettle, and resolve to rise above. Like YOU are doing. [8D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:13:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 10:57:12 AM EDT
I'm with the women. The way the donations and other commitments have been handled is disgraceful. And you don't know what their circumstance is.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 11:25:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 11:37:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2001 12:17:27 PM EDT by Alacrity]
Shooter69 your right we dont. One thing I do know, Im worth more dead than alive, from a present value standpoint. Which makes me somewhat hesitant to take the wife to the range. Damn I hate the devolving of responsibility on others, or being captive to their actions or inactions. Nobody knows when they get the call. Nobody! So you best be prepared. If it becomes necessary for you to depend on a handout, dont bitch. It may have been entirely unavoidable, but you ultimately failed; to plan, to save, to take action or simply to foresee. I fail a lot, but Ill be damned if Ill blame others for not stopping me. Damn Sorry all these folks were murdered, but theres plenty of everyday folk dying everyday, in much greater numbers, that get little assistance - and less notice. I have personal experience with Canter-Fitzgerald, and if anyone there was left destitute, I'd be surprised. Not that they shouldnt get the same treatment as anyone else, just no different. SYK I Am acquainted with a former Exec who lost 3 family members there, absolutely horrible. Luck Alac Liberty means reponsibility. That is why most dread it. --- George B Shaw Edited to say I should read before I post. Garandman hit the nail on the head, this post is superfluous. Well said.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 11:58:52 AM EDT
ArmdLbrl With 1 Billion dollars in their coffers the charity's should be looking for the family's who need this money! If They looked as hard for the people to give money to as they look for people to donate it, Everyone in need would be in great shape. One of my very good friends lost his life in the WTC, His wife & 3 young children are devastated. She is still having a hard time accepting the fact that he is dead!
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 7:20:00 PM EDT
Must be be from Great Nose,,eh I meant Great Neck.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 9:04:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Shooter, I'm working personally on one of the funds. While i can not speak to what the other funds are doing I can tell you there are legal reasons that prevent us from just writing checks, including the fact that receipt of aid from one group might legally preclude it from another, or diminish benefits that one is eligible for from another source. Assistance also carries tax implications. Until new laws and regs are adopted people might find themselved thrown into higher tax brackets or lose eligibility to claim certain credits and exemptions based upon receiving aid. These things all have to be ironed out and I can assure you there are a whole lot os us lazy government types working 16 plus hour days to help these people. SO KINDLY BACK THE PHUCK OFF!
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With money from people like me. I think you will find that if in the end the donations do not get through to the intended, in the future people will be considerably less trusting. I am not talking about your fund in particular. The attitude of the Red Cross is completely unacceptable. Money was given to them to use ON THIS TRAGEDY, not to squirrel away for some future disaster. Every poll of the general public and those who have given has shown this. In the event of further loss of life I have no doubt that people would be generous once again, provided that they had confidence in the trustees. If they continue as they are a considerable amount of credibility will be lost. I think you and garandman are missing something here. It's not about those who lost their lives in military service and received nothing. And it's not about how you judge the widows and widowers to be. Frankly, I could care less. It's only about the money getting through to the families of the people it was meant for... whether they were some busboy at windows on the world, a cop or fireman, or a mercedes driving master of the universe. If you either didn't give, or it is your job to do this then you'll just have to pardon me for my unreasonable, ignorant and thankless attitude. The great unwashed did have the unrealistic expectation that checks would be written and without the victims families (yes, they are victims so take a flying leap!) having to go on welfare-benefits-like road show from one bureaucrat to the next, ad-infinitum for every grocery bill or mortgage payment to be approved. BTW thanks for stopping in five times from 11-3 on your 16 hour workday. Perhaps we're taking too much of your time.
Link Posted: 11/9/2001 4:24:22 AM EDT
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