Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 11/7/2001 5:36:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 5:45:56 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
I am not Steyr AUG but 11H1P just had a great idea. Lets wright to our gun manufactures. Penned/snail mail. And to the NRA and request that from this day forward. Every Gun Manufacturer in the United States puts a copy of the Constitution of the United States and a copy of the United States Bill of Rights with every shipped rifle/pistol/shotgun or any other gun they manufacture. There are a bunch of 1st time gun buyers these days and well That I think would go a long way toward making Our most fundamental point. Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:39:38 AM EDT
What do you think SteyrAUG??? Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:55:16 AM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:00:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 5:54:26 AM EDT by 7]
Devils Advocate... 1. It will cost more money for the manufacturers. 2. They will see no benefit of including these in each gun. It doesn't make someone go out and buy another. 3. Will anyone who gets these actually read them? Except for gun people like us, I'd say less than 5%. Back to me... I'd say it sounds interesting and might help us in the long run.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:05:10 AM EDT
No, I don't mind they can pass the cost onto the consumer. No it doesn't make people buy more guns but what is $1 or $2 more. 3] But what it does do is far more subtle. Even if they don't actually read it they will still see it, and it will link the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to guns in their minds. Wheather they realize it or not. Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:10:53 AM EDT
Hate to disappoint you, but they manufacturers are too busy trying to stay in business. Yeah I know that in the long run..... There would be no long-run is they fail in the short-run. Right now, most of the manufacturers put a post card in their gun boxes to join the NRA. And even Taraus USA has offered to pay for a the first year of any new members.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:12:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:13:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: No, I don't mind they can pass the cost onto the consumer. No it doesn't make people buy more guns but what is $1 or $2 more. 3] But what it does do is far more subtle. Even if they don't actually read it they will still see it, and it will link the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to guns in their minds. Wheather they realize it or not. Benjamin
View Quote
Exactly. Here's the poop from LoC. Madison Gift Shop: (202) 707-0204 18"x23" Parchment Constitution $3.50 Same size Declaration, same price Legal size Parchment Constitution/BoR (2 pages) $2.50 Same size Declaration (1 page) $1.50 Same size Gettysburg Address, same price. Same size that contains all 4 is $4.00
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:16:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 6:11:10 AM EDT by fattym4]
i think its a great idea! just include it as part of the instruction manual. ...doesn't have to be the whole document, just the BOR...
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:19:15 AM EDT
Here is another thought... What is the point anyway? The Constitution isn't valid anymore. [;)] Currently I do NOT have the right to bear arms in Washington DC. I do NOT have the right to have a 'NEW' M16. I do NOT have the right to take my 'old' M16 across the state lines unless I go to a government agency and ask permission.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:24:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Does the manufacturer print their own instruction booklets? If they don't, there is the cost of contracting the Constitution printing to a publisher. If they do, the time per gun manufactured that is spent printing materials that goes with it is probably quadrupled. (I am not going to look, but the instruction booklet numbers less than 10 pages, whereas, the Constitution on the same size of paper will number over 30 pages.) Either setup is likely to cost more than $5. If you look around at the range at the people who have absolutely no idea about what they are doing, you notice that it is obvious they don't read their instruction manual. Why do you think they will read the Constitution, if they don't even bother with the instructions? There is also the issue of the bottom line. The gun manufacturers are having a hard enough time keeping their heads above water, without trying to toss in freebies to educate the populace. And ya know what? That is our job, anyway. We have to expose people, one at a time, the hard way, to our ideals. The gun manufacturers won't and can't do it for us.
View Quote
This would likely be something that the local retailers could do. Mfgrs could do so, and pass on the costs to distributers/customers. They need to think longer term. With knee-jerk legislation, they could be shut down as far as sales in this country. This was prompted after reading my niece's "History" book, that had almost 4 paragraphs devoted to Gun Control movement, and the 1st, 10th, and 14th ammendments discussed in depth. Half of 1 paragraph outlined the 2nd, and less was said of the others. As far as the familiarization/safety brief, is a few minutes of time too much to ask to get these soccer moms to feel comfortable about their purchase?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:28:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 7: Here is another thought... What is the point anyway? The Constitution isn't valid anymore. [;)] Currently I do NOT have the right to bear arms in Washington DC. I do NOT have the right to have a 'NEW' M16. I do NOT have the right to take my 'old' M16 across the state lines unless I go to a government agency and ask permission.
View Quote
I bitch about it, and also work to correct the situation- that is the point. Use the enemy's own methods against them. The buyer may read it while on the porcelain throne. They may decide to oust those that made your freedom restricted, and may get a few more to demand them back.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:38:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:40:51 AM EDT
I agree with the idea of writing gun manufacturers to tell them, that as a CUSTOMER, you would be more inclined to purchase their product if references to gun ownership and the constitution were more prominant in the included literature. This is how you turn their heads. I don't think Bushmaster, DPMS, RRR, Armalite, etc. should be the target of this since this , speaking of these companies and their customers, is like "preaching to the choir" The target should be Ruger, H&R, Winchester, Mossberg, Remington, etc. that sells .22 rifles and shotguns at Wal-Mart to first time buyers. To target those looking to buy a handgun, the method would be to task the gun store to provide a copy of the Constitution and Bill of Rights to buyers. They could have a 8.5X11" American Flag on one side of a piece of paper with Bill of Rights printed on the other. Just my .02
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:40:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By 11H1P: This would likely be something that the local retailers could do. Mfgrs could do so, and pass on the costs to distributers/customers. They need to think longer term. With knee-jerk legislation, they could be shut down as far as sales in this country. This was prompted after reading my niece's "History" book, that had almost 4 paragraphs devoted to Gun Control movement, and the 1st, 10th, and 14th ammendments discussed in depth. Half of 1 paragraph outlined the 2nd, and less was said of the others. As far as the familiarization/safety brief, is a few minutes of time too much to ask to get these soccer moms to feel comfortable about their purchase?
View Quote
A few minutes?? I am not sure what you are talking about, but most of those soccer moms have the antigun arguments memorized, and it takes time to chop them all into little pieces. Perhaps you are talking about trying to delegate the task of reading the instructions to the gun seller, so he can explain it to the buyer? This may be a more viable idea than your original idea. The main problem with inexperienced gun buyers is NOT their pathetic knowledge of the Constitution, but rather their dangerously inadequate knowledge of their own guns and gun safety and handling. First things first.
View Quote
That was addressed by the point of sale familiarization/safety brief. We were not talking of those that don't buy the guns, but those that do.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:49:54 AM EDT
DoubleFeed I think that is two different things and needs to be two different things. Hunter Safety and Firearms Safety is of course one thing. The philosophical underpinnings of these United States is another. But I would not barry these two Items(constitution/Bill of rights) In the instruction manuals. I would like to see it seperate. In that a Person gets their purchase home, opens the case or Box and out flops the Constitution of the United Sates and the Bill of Rights. They will see it , they might think ?what?? and then even if they do push it to the side it has entered their Minds and starts to work. They will then be walking by the news and will hear something that falls into the same category(because their mind is already primed) and this will catch in their minds subconciously. Their mind will constantly seek to add more content. Which is the way minds work. so here is what you have. A decent person goes and purchases a firearm. That person after opening the purchase has before them a GUN/ A Constitution/ and A Bill of Rights. They already know if only vaguely how this nation was founded. They already know about Republicans and Democrats, they already know broadly about the issues. And many first time buyers are now in the process of purchasing their first firearms.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:58:22 AM EDT
To this to counter that New book where the author makes the claim that not many people owned firearms in colonial America. My Ass and that SOB knows it. There was NOT a house WITHOUT a RIFLE would be my guess because these people had to shoot Game day in and Day out. You can't grow MEAT from the Ground. And we had MEAT. That means Grouse,Squirell,rabbit,bear,mountain lions,pheasant,quail, frogs,snakes. Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:00:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: To this to counter that New book where the author makes the claim that not many people owned firearms in colonial America. My Ass and that SOB knows it. There was NOT a house WITHOUT a RIFLE would be my guess because these people had to shoot Game day in and Day out. You can't grow MEAT from the Ground. And we had MEAT. That means Grouse,Squirell,rabbit,bear,mountain lions,pheasant,quail, frogs,snakes. Benjamin
View Quote
What Ben said! To lighten things up, I saw a bumper sticker that read "If God meant for us to be vegitarians, why did He make animals out of meat?"
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:01:56 AM EDT
That was a little off topic, but it has to be done, because. People like this can get their books published because of their credentials even if they are full of shit. And although there are many sources for own edifice we have to defend and fight for, we need more and there are today many thousands of gun buyers who have never purchased a rifle/pistol/shotgun and never linked the two concepts in their mind. Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:04:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: That was a little off topic, but it has to be done, because. People like this can get their books published because of their credentials even if they are full of shit. And although there are many sources for own edifice we have to defend and fight for, we need more and there are today many thousands of gun buyers who have never purchased a rifle/pistol/shotgun and never linked the two concepts in their mind. Benjamin
View Quote
My point exactly. Teach them at time of purchase (safety, humanizing element), and make the link in their minds (Constitution/BoR).
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:09:09 AM EDT
Well I can say that with my last two purchases, I have yet to not be told some basic firearm safety. When I took reciept of my gun it was opened and everything in it was explained to me. And it would only take 30 seconds to say to the buyer. "Here is your instruction manual, please read it. Here is a copy of the US Constitution and the Bill of rights so that you can help us secure our right to Bear Arms." Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:19:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:22:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:31:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By 11H1P: My point exactly. Teach them at time of purchase (safety, humanizing element), and make the link in their minds (Constitution/BoR).
View Quote
Would this prepurchase training be mandatory, or optional? This would not be cheap, and it would represent a good time investment on the part of the seller. This time investment to ONE customer takes away from serving other customers who want to make a purchase. The other alternative is to schedule a once a week training class to everybody can be taught at the same time, but this borders dangerously on making training mandatory, even if one knows the rules already, and certainly could very well be a form of registration. Everybody who paid for a gun has to be put on a list so they can be checked in when class time comes. Once the class is done, a certification has to be issued, and unless you are talking about a pure "on faith" system, this would DEFINITELY be registration.
View Quote
No, more like a quick rundown of basic safety. an extra 4-5 minutes, here is the safety, here is how to operate the firearm, don't point it at anything you are not willing to destroy. Offer them the more in-depth classes hosted by volunteers. Optional for the in-depth stuff. I like to have a function rundown when purchasing an unfamiliar gun. I have no problem waiting and browsing when someone else is going through it. The certificate/registration thing is a bit in left field, IMO, just let them know that a volunteer will be available at such-and-such time and place.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:33:08 AM EDT
If they want in-depth instruction with range time, there are instructors/ranges offering that for a fee already.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:43:23 AM EDT
I think it would be a lot more effective to place this information on American currency. The exposure overseas of our philosophy would be invaluable in fighting opposing propaganda, since it seems almost everyone in the world has some greenbacks floating around: http://hcps2.hanover.k12.va.us/lms/libbill.htm Sorry not a live link - but do paste it in and consider this currency idea. "Never ask a man if he is from Virginia. If he is, he will certainly tell you; if not, you don't want to embarrass him."
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:45:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 7:39:44 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
DoubleFeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: Well I can say that with my last two purchases, I have yet to not be told some basic firearm safety. When I took reciept of my gun it was opened and everything in it was explained to me. And it would only take 30 seconds to say to the buyer. "Here is your instruction manual, please read it. Here is a copy of the US Constitution and the Bill of rights so that you can help us secure our right to Bear Arms."Benjamin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is what you have in quotes what you mean by an explanation of "basic firearm safety"?
View Quote
No they showed me basic function. But when they open the purchase so I could Okay it they gave me a quick rundown on everything in the box. I am saying this is the time to throw in the quote I mentioned. Because they are talking to you the whole time. At least good gunshop owners and salemen. Benjamin
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 2:10:42 PM EDT
I like the basic idea. At least the Bill of Rights!
Top Top