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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 11/5/2001 1:10:07 AM EDT
Italy decided to join military action in Afghanistan. The sighing is due to the fact that, knowing the level of readyness of the Italian Army, I am really angry toward my govt. Furthermore, comrades of my paratroop battalion will be send there. These politicians (ALL no one party excluded) contributed to destroy motivation and resources of our defence system, Italians (don't look at me... I am a different way of thinking...)like pleasant life and army is only a bothering thing, good for those ones that have nothing better to do, and the Big Italian Mum doesn't want their sons to be far from their loving arms... This is the situation when we pretend that everyting is ok and never will happen (ergo=Italy doesn't need an efficient Army...). But politicians, mums and people generally are always ready to ask to our troops to do this and that when someting happen, as a good army can be built in a few weeks after years of neglection. Consequences? During WWI we were not ready for war. During Ethiopian campaign we were not ready. During WWII we were not ready for war. In Lebanon we were not ready. In Somalia we were not ready. In the Gulf War we were not ready (8 airplanes and some ships... in the Osprey books about Gulf war Italy is not mentioned...) It seems to me that Italians don't learn from history... Sorry for bothering you, but I needed to tell somebody the truth... PaoloAR15
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 1:54:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 1:50:01 AM EDT by 1feral1]
Mate, Adapt, overcome, improvise. This is not WWII, its bloody now. You have a modern army. Time to give the ole ball bag a a squeeze for some extra testosterone! With what you got, do your Para's proud, and just fucken get on with it! No one is really ready for war, although they might think so. Once the bullets fly and you see your friends fall, and shoot your first enemy, feel the fear adrenalin,and anxiety, then you'll know what its all about. It aint for Queen and Country, its for your Mates. One in, all in. Like the generations before you, and I, we are just men. Equals, and Brothers In Arms. Allies, and at all costs must get the job done. No quarters drawn or given, Remember that. I have served over 25 yrs in the two different armies of the British Commonwealth, so I know what Murphy's Law and being 'fucked' is all about. Leave the politics to the gutless 'pollies' and lets soldier on. 1feral1 Sydney
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 2:37:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CPL_Punishment: In 1993, U.S. soldiers suspected Italian troops of alerting the Somalis whenever the Rangers went out on a mission. Our soldiers should keep a watchful eye on those back-stabbers if they show up in Afghanistan.
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One of our TV reporter was murdered because she was about to report that Italian Govt. was selling firearms to Somalian gangs. The same weapon were used not only to kill US Rangers, but NINE of our Paratroop and to wound several other of MY COMRADES! I know personally the commander of the Italian contingent in Somalia, because I made a jump qualification with him (and his son) and was the commander of a para battalion where friends of mine served in 1985-1986, and to say to him that was an uncompetent was the minimum. He was the same person that, after my comrades were killed in the clashes at the checkpoint Pasta, didn't give the order to the Mangusta Helicopter that was chasing the murdered on the way to escape to open fire. Have I all the reason to be worried (and angry)... what are we showing to other countries? I guess that Italy have still to do a lot to regain its dignity... I God knows if there are plenty of good guys in the Army!
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 4:35:01 AM EDT
The good news is that the Italian Army is made up of individuals, any one of whom can decide for himself that he will be the rightful heir of those Italians who once made nations tremble at the sight of their Eagle-embossed standards and bent [i][b]I tedeschi[/b][/i] to do their will! Now [u]that's[/u] a legacy. It's time to make nations tremble again! Do we need another Mussolini to accomplish this? I surely hope not. Eric The(Ciao!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 4:40:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: The good news is that the Italian Army is made up of individuals, any one of whom can decide for himself that he will be the rightful heir of those Italians who once made nations tremble at the sight of their Eagle-embossed standards and bent [i][b]I tedeschi[/b][/i] to do their will! Now [u]that's[/u] a legacy. It's time to make nations tremble again! Do we need another Mussolini to accomplish this? I surely hope not. Eric The(Ciao!)Hun[>]:)]
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Hi friend! Mussolini was a disaster for the Italian Army. One more reason not to hope for someone like him. Anyway, we will see. I am only ashamed for the conditions of my country and because the fact that we complain so much about americans but we don't provide anything better. USA should receive better support from MY COUNTRY!
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 4:51:26 AM EDT
Last Update: On Wednsday there is the Parliament vote to approve the use of Italian troops aside the US UK ones. The govt. coalition (right wing) has already decided to vote in support of the USA military action. Now also the opposition (All former communists with the exception of Pdci and Green parties)has decided for the approval. Let see what will happen November the 7th...
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 5:31:07 AM EDT
Don't worry for 8 years we too hated our government. And as a direct result of Bill Clintons personal disdain for the military, enemies of the US were invited to attack without consequence. The only terrorist we ever really went after was Tim McVeigh. If Tim had been Muslim there would have been peace marches and calls to be more understanding of "his" political views and grievences. After 8 years of dismantelling the US military, remember Bill said "attacks on the US will come in the form of the Melissa virus", and destroying morale (We are sending you guys to Haiti this week) our military is also no "all it can be."
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 5:36:07 AM EDT
"Roma Victor!" Paolo, only you and like-minded Italians can demand the vision and respect that Rome once held. The above battle cry struck fear into your enemies once. May you leve up to that memory. From the last outpost of Imperial Rome (America) [b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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Link Posted: 11/5/2001 5:41:31 AM EDT
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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Actually the way I've always seen it, it was not Bastogne and it was the 82nd rather than the 101st (the wording being, "we're the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are goig to get" - supposedly told to a tank crew withdrawin west during the battle of the bulge). Makes me wonder if this isn't one of those Army Urban Legends. Do you guys still have 11Hs? I thought they were supposed to be consolidating them? Adam
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 5:48:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White:
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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Actually the way I've always seen it, it was not Bastogne and it was the 82nd rather than the 101st (the wording being, "we're the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are goig to get" - supposedly told to a tank crew withdrawin west during the battle of the bulge). Makes me wonder if this isn't one of those Army Urban Legends. Do you guys still have 11Hs? I thought they were supposed to be consolidating them? Adam
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11H and 11M just got rolled into 11B (2001). As far as the quote, the closest that I could get was at the 82d museum, a picture of a 101st soldier on the way in to Bastogne amidst knee-deep snow and retreating tread-heads, with the quote underneath. Newspaper article from just after Christmas 1944. That is the reason why I put the 101 tag and Unknown under the quote, as having seen and heard it both ways, this is the closest to a primary source as I could find. I would LOVE to claim it as 82d, but can't. [b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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Link Posted: 11/5/2001 6:46:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 6:59:30 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
[b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
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Off topic, but the 505th PIR was part of the 82nd AD. You keep making a quote from the 101st. Any special reason? Here's something that I found at the beginning of [b][i]Those Devils in Baggy Pants,[/i][/b] by Ross S. Carter, member of the 504th PIR:
[b]To the Boys in the 82nd Airborne Division[/b] "American parachutists- devils in baggy pants -are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere...." [i]Found in the diary of a German officer who opposed the 504th on the Anzio beachhead[/i]
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Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:23:25 AM EDT
Btw, I joined paratroops for my military service in Italy because I am a fanatic admirer of the "Screaming Eagles" of the 101st Abn. Div. I saw movies like "Bastogne" (The one with Van Johnson) and "The Longest Day". I also joined maneuvers, in Italy, where the enviroment (Tuscany) really looked like the inland of Normandy. We had to cross little bridges and water channels after a partachute jump... I remember that I was really enjoing that!!!
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:24:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 7:21:42 AM EDT by 11H1P]
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:
[b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
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Off topic, but the 505th PIR was part of the 82nd AD. You keep making a quote from the 101st. Any special reason? Here's something that I found at the beginning of [b][i]Those Devils in Baggy Pants,[/i][/b] by Ross S. Carter, member of the 504th PIR:
[b]To the Boys in the 82nd Airborne Division[/b] "American parachutists- devils in baggy pants -are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere...." [i]Found in the diary of a German officer who opposed the 504th on the Anzio beachhead[/i]
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1) I like the quote 2) My great-uncle on my dad's side was an RTO in the 101 (I think he said artillery, he died when I was young and did not talk a lot about it. I used to take out his uniform and ask questions, he said he would tell me about it when I was older. Never got the chance) during WWII. 3) I'm going back to the 82d shortly (probably the 325 [b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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P.S. The 505, along with the 504 and 325 are the 3 Infantry Regiments in the 82d. I'll still call someone in the 101 a "Kickin' Chicken" patch wearer, but with good nature and respect for them and their unit. Just like those of us in the 82d wear the "Alcoholics Anonymous", er, "All American" patch.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 7:28:37 AM EDT
Oh. For a good read on the 504th and 505th PIRs during WWII, see the book mentioned. Carter was with them from North Africa onward. Both regiments suffered high casualties throughout the war. Carter survived and re-enlisted only to succumb to skin cancer two years later.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 8:06:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PaoloAR15: I also joined maneuvers, in Italy, where the enviroment (Tuscany) really looked like the inland of Normandy. We had to cross little bridges and water channels after a partachute jump... I remember that I was really enjoing that!!!
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Boy you were really roughing it! That's where most of us like to vacation :) Anyway, I was well aware of how ill-prepared the Italian Armed Forces have been in the past (WW1&2 in particular) but I thought that things were better now. That's too bad. Well, the money is better spent on social programs... The revelation about Somalia is very disturbing. What kind of people would do this? I mean it can't be that much money.
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 8:14:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy: Oh. For a good read on the 504th and 505th PIRs during WWII, see the book mentioned. Carter was with them from North Africa onward. Both regiments suffered high casualties throughout the war. Carter survived and re-enlisted only to succumb to skin cancer two years later.
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Got it, but haven't read it in awhile. Time to break it out again. Anyway, "Paratroops is Paratroops" in my eyes. I always liked the quote "We're Paratroopers- we're SUPPOSED to be surrounded!". [b][size=1]Don Out[/size=1][/b] [b][size=4][red]AIRBORNE! 2/505 PIR H-MINUS[/red][/size=4][/b]
[i]" We're paratroopers, and THIS is as far as the bastards are going!" Unknown 101st Paratrooper, Bastogne, 1944.[/i]
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Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:37:22 AM EDT
Italy to join war huh? Hee hee......Every culture has its strong points and war definitely isn't the Italians. This isn't necessarily a bad thing either. I have to chuckle everytime I think about a story my mom told me about the WW2 era. She told me they would bring German and Italian POW's back to the States during the war and they would perform menial tasks like stacking boxes and other such trivial duties. She said when the Germans stacked boxes they did it with a sense of purpose and they would perfectly organize each stack to the degree that they would still be standing to this day if never touched again. Hee hee hee.....she said when the Italians performed the same task, they would be laughing and joking around and all the boxes they stacked up would be all lopsided and strewn all over the floor by the next day. A little off topic, but amusing none the less. MG
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 11:42:40 AM EDT
Post from Mean_Green - So what you're telling us is that the Germans were more or less collaborators with their enemy, while the Italians were basically sabotaging the US war effort! [:D] Who woulda guessed? Eric The(Wow!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 12:03:54 PM EDT
that means they're going to bring those god aweful berettas to the battlefield; oh wait... -CK
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 12:38:46 PM EDT
p. 97, paragraph 3, Black Hawk Down:
"The Italians, whose loyalties had been at best suspect throughout the intervention, were nevertheless ready to commit"
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This is in reference to the US effort to assemble a international rescue force to extract Task Force Ranger. So you guys can't be all bad! [;)] Kyle
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 4:18:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wiggins: p. 97, paragraph 3, Black Hawk Down:
"The Italians, whose loyalties had been at best suspect throughout the intervention, were nevertheless ready to commit"
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This is in reference to the US effort to assemble a international rescue force to extract Task Force Ranger. So you guys can't be all bad! [;)] Kyle
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You're right. If allowed, Italians paras would join the team to rescue the Ranger and fight side by side with you. But such decisions are taken at high level. I can apply an old sentence that I heard about British soldiers to the Italians: "Lions commanded by sheeps". In the firefight of the checkpoint "Pasta", where nine of my comrades were killed, one M113 commander of the 1st CC. Par. bn. (my battallion!!!) asked to open fire on the assaulting crowd to recover the bodies of the fallen ones. The permit was denied. With tears in the eyes the Italian paratroops had to withdraw, and they could recover the bodies only when everyting was calm... *SIGH* Today a former General of the EI (Esercito Italiano) was asked if Italy can bear such load of tasks (Bosnia, Kosovo, Unifil, TImor Est...) and in the same time the Afghanistan task and if we were not risking to have not enough resources to defend the national territory. He simply said that we (Italians) are going on the limit of our defence capabilities, and yes, we are risking to left our territory uncovered, since the moment that a good defence capacity is not a matter of few months but takes YEARS to be built, and the politicians cannot ask everything when needed but not giving anything when the Army ask men, resources and long-term investments! HOLY TRUTH!!!
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 8:14:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CPL_Punishment: In 1993, U.S. soldiers suspected Italian troops of alerting the Somalis whenever the Rangers went out on a mission. Our soldiers should keep a watchful eye on those back-stabbers if they show up in Afghanistan.
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Germans had the same problem also with the Italians,,,make them cooks,,they sure can cook..
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 8:19:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: The good news is that the Italian Army is made up of individuals, any one of whom can decide for himself that he will be the rightful heir of those Italians who once made nations tremble at the sight of their Eagle-embossed standards and bent [i][b]I tedeschi[/b][/i] to do their will! Now [u]that's[/u] a legacy. It's time to make nations tremble again Do we need another Mussolini to accomplish this? I surely hope not. Eric The(Ciao!)Hun[>]:)]
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Mussolini? did he really make anyone tremble? Come on,,during WW2 no body was trembling at "Italia",
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