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Posted: 10/28/2001 7:48:28 AM EDT
As a fellow gunowner, I am shocked at the attitudes of many of you. Whether it be out of fear/foolishness/joke, or misguided bravado, some of you have proposed all out, no holds barred war. I sincerely hope you are in a small but overly vocal minority. The hate and the lust for bloodshed your display in your words are shocking. Add to that your utter childish foul mouthed bashing of anyone who disagrees, I can see why some americans believe us gunowners to be a bunch of militant right wing radicals. So I ask you, have you had a chance to ponder about the long term consequences of what you propose? Any fool can come up with a short term plan to make us feel powerful, in control. The war we are in is strategically the most difficult battle of our time. It demands far more than knee jerk reactions. We are in a war to protect our way of life and those of our childrens. So, I ask you,... what do you think will happen in the long run if we.... 1. NUKE EM!! Yeah!! 2. KILL every one of those funny looking curtain wearing Afghans (innocents, women, children) to show em who's boss!! 3. Intentionally target civilians that have no military value.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:53:06 AM EDT
What do I think would happen in the long run? I think we would WIN THE FUC*ING WAR!!! Thats what we are SUPPOSED to do!!
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:56:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rainman: What do I think would happen in the long run? I think we would WIN THE FUC*ING WAR!!! Thats what we are SUPPOSED to do!!
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Absolutely Brilliant... Could you define "win"????
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:02:55 AM EDT
How did we win the war with germany -- we bombed the shit out of their cities, many innocent civilians died. Haven't had much trouble with them since then. How did we win the war with japan -- we bombed the shit out of their cities, many innocent civilians died. Haven't had much trouble with them since then. How do we win in afghanistan.......
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:10:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2001 8:05:41 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:12:41 AM EDT
Mucor, I believe that America has grown a little soft since WWII. We bombed the heck out of Germany and Japan knowing that we would kill "innocent" people. The US no longer has the stomach to do so, whether that is a good thing or not is subject to interpretation. We no longer do so to "appease" the coalition members and our own people. Keep in mind that Dec Def Rumsfeld just stated that the Taliban is now hiding out in mosques, schools, etc. They "know" that we won't bomb their. The alternative then is to send in ground troops and suffer higher American casualties as a result. You have to remember one thing...if we don't risk killing "innocent" people to "look better" in the eyes of some Americans and other countries, we definately doom our own soldiers to a longer and harsher "conflict". People may disagree with this view and they are entitiled to that. That's my 2cents.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:13:26 AM EDT
You are a pretty misled individual. This is a WAR. The goal is to win the WAR. This enemy does not fear death. This enemy must be destroyed. You are absolutly fooling yourself if you think it won't end up becoming an all out, gloves off war. You need to wake up and take a good look at what is going on. Anything less than overwhelming force is NOT going to achieve success. We should be carpet bombing ALL Afghans. These "Innocents" you are defending carry posters praising the enemy. The Afghan people must be forced to unseat the Taliban, or share their fate. They are ALL guilty by association. This shit has been going on forever in the Middle East. I could give a crap less if these subhumans want to live in caves and practice diety worship. But the moment these uncivilized animals brought their false religous motivations to the WTC, it became our responsiblity to destroy all of them. It is misled people like yourself that must be educated. Overwhelming force must be used. Make them crawl to us begging for an end, then shoot that bastard right between the eyes. These "Innocents" you attempt to defend in an un American manner would kill you in a heartbeat. There are no "Innocents" in this war. The children you un Americanly defend would kill you in a heartbeat. Wake the F up. This enemy is out to destroy you. Maybe you should sell your guns and take up knitting...
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:13:40 AM EDT
I say we offer a trade...You give us Usama and we'll give you Bill & Hillary Clinton. Seems fair enough to me.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:16:42 AM EDT
Although I don't agree with the "nuke 'em all" theory, I do believe that our engagement in Afganistan is [b]just treating a symptom[/b] of a much larger problem. If the world has approximately 1 billion Muslims and a large percentage of them hate us, this "disease" will still be with us. Since they're taught to hate the West, and Americans in particular from an early age, this problem of terrorism appears to have no end in sight. Will there ever be a resolution unless we take seemingly drastic steps?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:18:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RoyDamnMercer: I say we offer a trade...You give us Usama and we'll give you Bill & Hillary Clinton. Seems fair enough to me.
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I say we send Mucor over there to practice his unique view of foreign policy. That way Mucor can find out just how wrong he/she is... Get the nukes going...NOW!!!
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:19:14 AM EDT
Maybe we should drop in a bunch psychologists and give the Taliban "therapy". No,much cheaper to bomb the shit out of them. These people are savages and need to be dealt with.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:21:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2001 8:16:06 AM EDT by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:21:24 AM EDT
Mucus, As far as "innocent civilians," are concerned, when we hit 6000 then MAYBE I'll worry about it. You and all the others like you need to have the Koran as required reading. READ IT - the whole thing, then you can report back. Should you decide to take ar50troll's advice, send me your address and I'll donate the needles. NMSight
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:21:34 AM EDT
I think Mucor is just looking to start an argument, I doubt he's a pro-gun person, why would he start a post like this? ar50troll, I agree, let's get this guy some knitting needles, and send him on his way. I don't understand how people can be against us bombing "innocents", when we just 5000 innocent civilian lives in one day! Eye for an eye, I say. Send them all to Allah, where they want to be anyway!
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:23:46 AM EDT
Mucor, I belive that dropping a nuke on Bin Laden would send a powerfull message to every nation which burns our flag in their streets. We have been diplomatic too long. Remember that they started the "war", not us. We now have to do everything in our power to see that it doesn't happen again. If that means nuke em, fine by me. As far as killing "innocents", that happens in every war. Especially when their schools and religous system preach hatred of the US and train children to be killers from day one. I.E. die for Allah crap. How many photos have you seen with Arab kids holding AK's. Kind of like Vietnam, right? As far as long term consequences, nobody can say. I know that we kicked the shit out of Iraq, which is by far the strongest military in the Middle East. We have to stabilize this part of the world, and we need to do it by force. That means mass killing. I agree that we are in a war to protect our way of life. I just think that most of us on this board are willing to kill to do it. If you are so "shocked" at our opinions here, try some other board such as HCI, NOW ,ROSIE, RATM, etc. I am sure that you will find some soccer mom, or pot smoking hippie to agree with you. Live Free
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:30:20 AM EDT
We are fortunate to have brilliant military and political strategists like Mucor in our midst. I hope he is not squandering his expertise on the internet. He must be one of the great minds leading our warriors. It's remarkable that he has gotten to know us all so well in such a short time. [newbie]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:30:44 AM EDT
Don't pervert what I have said. I never said we should'nt bomb Afghanistan or to seek and destroy taliban/osama. I take issue with many of you who so willingly resort to desparate measures. Yes, using nukes is a desparate measure.. Hmm. German, Japan analogy during WWII?? Get into to the 21st century bud. It certainly was nice that we had the only nuke in the world at that time. That luxury is long behind us. So is the "luxury" of having a clear and defined state to wage war against. None of you have answered my original question.. Where do you see our nation 20 yrs down the road after we drop nukes on afghan and wage your definition of WAR?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:33:45 AM EDT
MUCOR,you are entitiled to your opinion.Just don't act surprised that some of us aren't emasculated like you are. I would guess you played with your sisters dolls as a child,and you always hung out with little girls growing up,it's OK but just don't expect most of us to be a little sissy boy afraid of a little blood like you OK.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:35:52 AM EDT
anything but the smallest of tactical nukes is out of the question....the backlash from the global community would be terrible there's two main ways to gain respect..... by overwhelming force (submission)....usually end up being hated for this and getting into big trouble later the other is by making decisions that cause people to admire you....by having good leadership skills so people feel that they can follow you in a just cause...win...and be proud....that's what we're shooting for.... large-scale nukes - no way biochem - no way small tactical nukes - certain situations (ie, nuke detonation by enemy, biochem attack by enemy, etc) there's just no way to launch a major offensive like that without the rest of the world isolating us, and then we become the enemy. not so say im too fond of all this globalization crap....but if we want to lead the way we have to show the world that we aren't tyrannical barbarians....but we also don't mess around if you piss us off....fine line indeed
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:36:23 AM EDT
Don't try to backtrack Mucor. You might also want to read GB's gloves off thread. Go GB. GB for president!!! Wouldn't that be interesting? [;)]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:36:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:37:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:38:08 AM EDT
Hmmmm...let's see. Do you remember the bully kid in the school? He would attack you, beat you, take you money and never stop this crap because YOU were an easy target for him. Now imagine that YOU fought back and yourself or a friend kick the crap out of the bully kid in front of all other kids to see, and then warn him that is more to come... The American society HAS been mellowed for decades by the Government and tought that violence dos not pay. The main reason the Government did this is to protect ITSELF from the masses fed up with the abuse. Well...it worked till now but this time it turned against the US and all the bull shit peace attitude. The international BULLY knows that (they are here studying us). If you want for this Country and society to exist in the future and have a fear free life than the American people must put aside the old mind set and accept violence as part of live. Apply the same principal with the international bully as with the HS bully. Fail to do this and we will speak Arabic. They are like a 3 year old that is pushind the limit to see how far it can get before gets its butt spanked.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:38:35 AM EDT
The term is "militant, right-wing reactionary." I believe "radicals" are leftists. As a right-winger, I am not particularly militant. I just want those d@mned "perps" dead. I don't much care what "other people" think of me, or I wouldn't own any guns. I would just knit. Long term consequences: -If we lose--> The moslems will bomb America at will. -If we win--> There will be a lot fewer moslem bombers. Win or lose, the moslem world will always hate America for a variety of (bullshit) reasons. I personally don't care whether Islam loves my country, or not. I only insist that they keep their cowardly, woman-slashing bombers and poisoners in check. ------- "Hi-jack this, Fags."
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:39:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MOLITAS: MUCOR,you are entitiled to your opinion.Just don't act surprised that some of us aren't emasculated like you are. I would guess you played with your sisters dolls as a child,and you always hung out with little girls growing up,it's OK but just don't expect most of us to be a little sissy boy afraid of a little blood like you OK.
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Thank you Molitas for displaying your finely tuned skill of empty personal attacks. It is a rare treat on this board...
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:42:09 AM EDT
Truth hurts huh? Well it's OK maybe your mommy will put another pretty bow in your hair and make everything all better.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:42:31 AM EDT
I'm not advocating killing everybody in this world who hates us or our way of life. Not all the "Muslamics" here or worldwide will ever committ terrorisim against us. But we do have to cause enough death and destruction to get them to a point where they say, "ok ok, we'll leave you alone". One of the obsticales to this whole thing is the fact that the countries that "hate" us and breed terrorism -- their religion IS their government. We don't do that here. They have to realize that they can still practice the religion of their choice, they just need a government that isn't dictated by the laws of the koran. And if the koran teaches that all non-believers should die, then, speaking for only myself, that isn't a religion at all.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:43:11 AM EDT
i think dacon summed it up much better than i did.... clear, decisive, undisputed victory..... to continue his analogy....what if you killed the bully....you would go over the line of self defense and retaliation...instead of people admiring you and the fact that you defended yourself against an enemy....they would fear you ... making you isolated...not good
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:49:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:50:18 AM EDT
Dont feed the [:K]. Viper Out
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:53:05 AM EDT
"None of you have answered my original question.. Where do you see our nation 20 yrs down the road after we drop nukes on afghan and wage your definition of WAR?" ---------------------------------------------- Quite simple actually.... Year 2021 I see an Arab Free World!
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 8:56:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-Collector: "None of you have answered my original question.. Where do you see our nation 20 yrs down the road after we drop nukes on afghan and wage your definition of WAR?" ---------------------------------------------- Quite simple actually.... Year 2021 I see an Arab Free World!
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Yes, this is one of the possibilities if you can accept systematic extermination of all muslims in the world including in the US. Gee, I think there is a word for that... Holo something..
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:01:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mucor:
Originally Posted By AR-Collector: "None of you have answered my original question.. Where do you see our nation 20 yrs down the road after we drop nukes on afghan and wage your definition of WAR?" ---------------------------------------------- Quite simple actually.... Year 2021 I see an Arab Free World!
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Yes, this is one of the possibilities if you can accept systematic extermination of all muslims in the world including in the US. Gee, I think there is a word for that... Holo something..
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Here’s one of those people who had rather see US servicemen die than victimize some ‘poor innocent’. Face it Mucus, Darwin’s law certainly applies to societies and they come in two flavors. - victim - victor The reason these people feel safe providing refuge to these psychopaths is because they know our society is weighed down gutless feebs like yourself. Usama is absolutely correct about one thing - If their society supports my enemy, then that society is my enemy. I’ve watched as men, women and children jumped 1000ft to their death because ‘street pizza’ is preferable to ‘crispy critter’. I’ve watched as thousands of my people were crushed to paste. I’ve watched as representatives of my government were kidnapped, starved, beaten and hung. I’ve seen hundreds of servicemen blown up in their sleep for nothing more than interceding in the feeding frenzy. Their society is clearly my enemy. Fuck em, I will sleep better knowing they are dead.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:05:43 AM EDT
Mucor -- you don't seem to be getting the point. We STILL have JAPANESE and GERMANS. They are just not BOTHERING us anymore. Geez man, don't ya get it?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:10:30 AM EDT
I vote for the cruel, heartless, murderous practice of destroying the home towns of terrorists. I mean complete destruction....no trace of life except for the rubble. I prefer to wage the WOT on communities rather than countries. Only until Moslem mommas get the message to "don't let your babies grow up to be terrorists" will the process of turning innocent kids into kamikazes end.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:16:49 AM EDT
Yes, we are in a war, but we are also in a war against terrorism. We have 2 basic choices... 1. It takes an international effort to fight this thing. So target the terroists from all corners, financial, military, political as we are currently trying to do. Allow military plenty of leeway to go after taliban even if they are hiding in civilian areas. 2. Act unilaterally by Nukeing em', frying em', and intentionally target and kill ANY turbin/curtain wearing Afghan. By doing so we'll have... a: Alienated all of our allies including germany, france, guarantee overthrow of pakistan by growing militant muslims. Receive condemnation and growing fear of rest of the world against us making nukes/other weapons of mass destruction more accesible to blossoming militant movement who even more clearly sees us as a threat to their religion. or we. b: Go nazi and systematically kill any and those billions of muslims including saudis, egyptians, tuks, and those in the US as they will surely hate us for mass targeted killings of innocents and will now pose a threat to our security and hope that in the process, they wont lob a few nuke at us.... WE HAVE FAR MORE TO LOSE!!!!! Our country is not strategically prepared to deal with the consequences of an all out war. Weapons of mass destruction is the great equalizer of crazed individuals, it is what can destroy our beloved nation. It's far more strategically important to small fanatical groups than to us. We are not prepared now to handle these threats.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:35:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2001 9:30:18 AM EDT by rainman]
Hey guys, maybe Mucor is right. Maybe we should abandon Israel, throw away are guns [so the muslamics don't hate us anymore] give up on the idea of freedom [ i'll have my tattoo removed] trade the koran for our constition, ya know just generally give up on the idea of advancement of mankind. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:48:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rainman: Hey guys, maybe Mucor is right. Maybe we should abandon Israel, throw away are guns [so the muslamics don't hate us anymore] give up on the idea of freedom [ i'll have my tattoo removed] trade the koran for our constition, ya know just generally give up on the idea of advancement of mankind. [:D]
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Rainman, I said nothing to that effect. War is not just war. It has different levels of intensity. Even in the Gulf war, it was nothing close to being an all out war like many of you propose, but we still won. We didn't use nukes, saddam didn't use biological or chemical warfare. If self preservation and the future of our nation is of interest to you, you need to wake up and realize the type of world we live in now. We'll get no where by playing into radical muslims hands by escalating this conflict to a level where we will certainly lose control. Tell me our nation is currently fairly secure against nukes and other weapons of mass destruction and maybe I'll understant your tactics.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:55:54 AM EDT
This guy just does not get it. If we alienate our allies,well then fine let them go it alone without the help of the U.S. see how long before they come crawling and begging to be friends again.Make other Arab nations mad at us,well if they don't like it and cause trouble guess what?We kill ALL of those fuckers too.Someone else open their mouth or causes trouble,BANG your ALL dead too.If they ALL play nice and play by the rules well then hey,no problem,step out of line though and it's goodbye Mohammed.You see Mr.Mucor WE are the United States,WE are "A" number "1" it's time WE quit pussy footing around and start kicking ass like the WAY we used to.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 9:58:49 AM EDT
Do I detect some moderation in Mucor's posts as you read through them? I agree with him on one thing, I wouldn't whip out the nukes. I don't think we need them. OTOH, if it can be proven that some country is trying to anthrax us, at least tactical nukes would be appropriate. If nothing else, it would deter other nations foolish enough to play that game. "Weapons of mass destruction" begets same. Most of you guys already have done a great job of saying the same type of stuff I woulda said. This is a war. They started it. We will win it. We will kill their people and destroy their property. Until they surrender. Put as simply as possible, "kill people and break stuff." The Japanese and the Germans were fanatics each in their own way. That whole Shinto warrior stuff and the very idea of the kamikaze shows us they were every bit the fanatical enemy that the current targets are. As rainman so aptly noted, they don't bother us any more. As for world opinion, who cares? Most of the Islamic world hates us anyway. Let's give them some *real* reasons.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 10:16:58 AM EDT
What mucus fails to see, is that WE DON"T NEED ANYONE ELSE !!! if another country wishes to lend a hand then so be it, if not, THEN FUCK EM' !!! Hmmm, what would our world be like if france, germany, pakistan or whatever liberal shithole country did'nt side with us ??? I guess you think the USA would just cease to exist ?? I,m sorry that you can't come to terms with the fact that we are the lone super power in the world today, and without us, well lets just say you would have two choices of a language to speak right now, german or japanese. OH SHIT, I FORGOT, you would come back with "your living in the past" "get past WWII" OK, then if it was'nt for the USA, you would be speaking russian or chinese right now, is that 21st centery enough for ya mucus ?? Get over yourself, you act as though only someone like yourself, who is enlightened, and cares about others, and is willing to subjugate the USA to the whims of the un, is a responsible gun owner, and those of us evil, hate filled, war mongers, who just want to kill people are bad gun owners. get a life ya' 25 post count troll. might I suggest a slow boat to france ?? SPECTRE BTW, I hope you can come up with something better than....SEE, I TOLD YA !!! LOOK AT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS !!! BLAH BLAH BLAH...... [-!-]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 10:21:22 AM EDT
So what do you suggest Mucor? I lost my WWJD (what would Jesus do) bracelet a looooong time ago. You obviously are not schooled in counterterrorism. Their attitude is that in war, there is no such thing as an innocent civilian. They view each and every person who got buried under the WTC as a military casualty. There is no innocent bystander in war.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 10:27:55 AM EDT
Do NOT "Nuke 'Em". Nuke Them ALL ! - Afghanistan - Iraq - Iran - Egypt - Syria - Libya and any other sponsor of terrorism... (first place lead sheilding around "our" new oil wells in the middle east regions) - Turkey (sorry.. As a American Christian (with Armenian heritage -- 4th. generation), I never really could stand those genocidal muslim bastards) -- Trust me on this one -- Ask "BigPig"! - Canada (oops.. strike that. -- Forgot about Striker!) - Berkeley, California (SMALL tactical nuke)
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 10:38:06 AM EDT
well I have read this post and thoughtfully came to a decision on the hole situation.......... give all our fly boys and ground troops the word then light the place up with nukes so the ground glows over there for 100 years......... problem solved
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:04:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: What mucus fails to see, is that WE DON"T NEED ANYONE ELSE !!! if another country wishes to lend a hand then so be it, if not, THEN FUCK EM' !!! Hmmm, what would our world be like if france, germany, pakistan or whatever liberal shithole country did'nt side with us ??? I guess you think the USA would just cease to exist ?? I,m sorry that you can't come to terms with the fact that we are the lone super power in the world today, and without us, well lets just say you would have two choices of a language to speak right now, german or japanese. OH SHIT, I FORGOT, you would come back with "your living in the past" "get past WWII" OK, then if it was'nt for the USA, you would be speaking russian or chinese right now, is that 21st centery enough for ya mucus ?? Get over yourself, you act as though only someone like yourself, who is enlightened, and cares about others, and is willing to subjugate the USA to the whims of the un, is a responsible gun owner, and those of us evil, hate filled, war mongers, who just want to kill people are bad gun owners. get a life ya' 25 post count troll. might I suggest a slow boat to france ?? SPECTRE BTW, I hope you can come up with something better than....SEE, I TOLD YA !!! LOOK AT THE PERSONAL ATTACKS !!! BLAH BLAH BLAH...... [-!-]
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Ah, yes, I will come back with "ya see I told ya!" You brilliantly illustrate my point. You let childish foul mouthed behavior betray your desire to hide your seeeming lack of mental fortitude and insight to carry on a meaningful debate. Nuff said about that and YOU.. Yes, my WWII analogy of the strategic benefit of using nukes holds as we the sole "superpower" in a strict military sense does not hold. Again, nukes and other WOMD are the great equalizer. This threat to us, we cannot handle at this time and thus must play into the equation of how much we want to elevate this conflict militarily and how we should deal with the global nature of this threat. Yes, I say kill em' but we must target them. If some innocent civilians die as a result of honest mistakes or because the Taliban is using civilians for cover then I pray for their poor souls but also realize this is a cost of a war. But go ahead with escalating this to the highest, most brutal level and see how alone and vulnerable we'll feel. Our "superpower" status will be gone in short order. Superpower acts resolutely, it leads the world not only militariliy but also politically, that yes, we, unlike the terrorists do and must care about the death of the innocents. But what many of you propose are far far beyond the moral limits that separates our nation, our civilization from the evil of this world. BTW, the Germans and the Japanese do not bother us anymore not because of the nukes we dropped on them. Far far from it. It's because we stuck around and literally built the nation they are now. Fall you history buffs, go look up your books, the way Germans were utterly humiliated and left on it's own after WW I is what led to the rise of the third reich and the most god awful war we have known to date.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:19:15 AM EDT
BLAH BLAH BLAH, SEE HE LOBBED PERSONAL ATTACKS !!! so I won't respond to the substance of his post. WAAAAAAA [>(] [>(] I can only aspire to be as enlightened as you mucus, I think I will go read the village voice and listen to kumbaya now. [:K] BTW" the germans and japanese dont bother us anymore not because of the nukes we dropped on them" Ummm, Mr. big intellect, we never dropped any nukes on germany.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:26:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: ...think I will go read the village voice and listen to kumbaya now...
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The boot will crush the sandal. [stick]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:32:19 AM EDT
Mucor, They (the terrorist) hit us first. It is a war of ideology. If every one of "them" is dedicated to killing everyone of "us" where is there room for moderation? I suggest you read the [u]Art of War[/u] by Sun Tzu. Then come back and relate to the board how we should fight terrorism and terrorist. Please educate us.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:41:13 AM EDT
Well, history has proven that in the latter part of this century, a prolonged campaign losses support easily. Not advocating we hurt innocents INTENTIONALLY, but should not cry over it if they suffer collateral damage. Hell they hurt American civvies intentionally. They know our weakness, that is the Americans are soft when it comes to civilians, so they will use that against us. Very succesfull so far, I might add. We will try to be PC in this war. Not because the admin and military wants it that way, it is because the American people have become too soft when it comes to views of warfare. What does war (which we declared it as such) mean to you? I view war to be equivalent to death. Be it civvies or military. The majority view war as solely affecting military. They cannot phatom civilians involved due to the fact that the US have not seen war to the fullest since WW2. We have become soft in our views. The other question is, where do you think Afghans get their military forces from? Their civilians, their young. If you study historical military facts, many armies killed their enemies young men to prevent them from rising up again. THAT IS TRUE WAR. We are at war. We have declared it. We are currently fighting it. We should do everything in our power to win this war. I mean everything. This must not become another Vietnam. This is WAR not some game you play and get to do over. It must be won by any means necessary. WAR = DEATH. DEATH DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE This makes me think of what my martial arts instructor told me once. He said, " if you get into a fight and do not end it within the first minute, be prepared to lose" So I guess this makes a keyboard commando because I have no way of proving with actions what I say.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:48:40 AM EDT
Mucor: Forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't thing you have ever seen combat. Standing order in my plt during the gulf war was "if it moves, after I say stop, kill it" I was unwilling to see one of my guys die to save a "rag". Ya I know, raceist statement, but that was the term used at the time. My dad called his enemy "slopes" till the day he died too. My uncle still calls the VC "slants". So I will call mine "rags", bad habit but it seems to be a family tradition. Anyway, nothing less than total war is going to work, the "rags" are already in a total war, we are just starting to realize it. So now, if it moves kill it, and 20 years down the road, they will be sending cheap toys and cars to the US.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 11:54:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rew: Mucor: Forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't thing you have ever seen combat. Standing order in my plt during the gulf war was "if it moves, after I say stop, kill it" I was unwilling to see one of my guys die to save a "rag". Ya I know, raceist statement, but that was the term used at the time. My dad called his enemy "slopes" till the day he died too. My uncle still calls the VC "slants". So I will call mine "rags", bad habit but it seems to be a family tradition. Anyway, nothing less than total war is going to work, the "rags" are already in a total war, we are just starting to realize it. So now, if it moves kill it, and 20 years down the road, they will be sending cheap toys and cars to the US.
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I certainly wish it was that simple now. The war terrain is a little more complex now isn't it? Also, you were not in a "total" war as defined by many members of this group. Total war meant driving all the way to Iraq and killing anything that moves there, or better yet, throwing some nukes there. QCMGR, Thank you, I have already read the art of war... Sun-tzu was a great taoist, I like him alot. Sun-tzu said: Generally in warfare, keeping a nation intact is best, destroying a nation second best; keeping an army intact is best, destroying an army second best; keeping a battalion intact is best, destroying a battalion second best; keeping a company intact is best, destroying a company second best; keeping a squad intact is best, destroying a squad second best. Therefore, to gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence; to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence. Therefore, the best warfare strategy is to attack the enemy's plans, next is to attack alliances, next is to attack the army, and the worst is to attack a walled city. Laying siege to a city is only done when other options are not available.
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