I here that...
Were do I sign-up?
SSD

I'll be the BAR guy...now...somebody buy me a BAR

[8D]

[bounce] YEAH,WHAT HE SAID!!![bounce] Unfortunately -- see my earlier post.....[peep]

Let's talk about why we don't drill the ANWR.

Let's talk about the CIA deposing the ruling government of Iran in 1952, installing the Shah as a puppet, supporting him through twenty-eight years of brutality, and then letting Jimmy Carter pull the rug out from under the Shah thereby allowing a popular unorganized revolution to throw the Shah's government out.

That they got stuck with the religious crazies was unfortunate.

That everyone over the age of 30 there hates the U.S. with a glowing red-hot passion is the U.S.'s fault entirely.

That you don't know anything about that is your fault.

Fortunately for you, half the population was born and grew up after the revolution, and they don't know or understand why their elders hate the U.S.  In another 10 years, they'll be our friends again.

The Israelis did that, with our support, quite thoroughly.  Fucked Lebanon, I mean.

So they were allied with the Soviets?  Big deal, so was India -- and now India is our "ally" in this "coalition" against "terrorism".


Actually, we were fighting OUR war, since WE need the oil that Kuwait produces.  What was that about the ANWR?

Oh, and why is that?  There's no indication whatsoever that Iran had anything to do with the attack.  They don't have a biowarfare program, and in fact they were bitching at the U.S. because the U.S. was SUPPLYING Iraq's biowarfare program. . . .

Why do you think the early reports said that the strain of anthrax being used was genetically the same as a strain from a U.S. research lab in Ames, Iowa?

You and people like you are why we're in such terrible trouble now.  Here's hoping the next anthrax-laced letter shows up in your mailbox.

whu...?

Trouble???? Who is in trouble? You and people like you are the reason people all over the world think we are weak!! The whole worlds problems are all our fault? BS. ( as in bull shit) Tell ya what how about we pull all support, all of it, and close the borders, right now! Nothing in but if you want to leave you just need a oneway ticket. Let them fend for themselves for the next 20 years or so. Then we can walk in and pump the oil, just push the bleached bone's out of the way.

Amen, Brother Ruw

  I find it hysterical when I see pictures of bags of wheat with USA stamped all over it being stacked up to the ceiling of these wearhouse's holding all the contributions our great nation and others have given freely to Afghanistan and outside these wearhouse's they are burning MY f*cking flag!!!

  These ignorant, arrogant BEGGARS would not have the strength to burn MY flag were it not for the efforts of our farmers and leaders compassion.

   The only reason these people really hate us is because of pure jealousy. We have it all!!! Better houses,food,jobs,TV,radio,roads,gov't, and most of all we got the BABES..... If those women over there were not so dog-sh*t ugly and stanky. They would not require them to cover their ugly holes up!!!

   I apologize for my unbridled passion for my flag and my country but I am an American. I've lost family members in Vietnam, World War I & II and know better than most that freedom isn't free. What we have here that lies between California,Washington,New York and Florida is nothing but a miracle that the world looks UP to.

   All these people who bring up America's mistakes so quickly never seem to remember all the goodwill we try to spread thru world. Reminds me of my ex-mother-in-law I had. Didn't matter how much I did for them. All that mattered was the one time I made a mistake.

  If you don't like it here then why are you here?

These people hate us because we are successful and have a culture that works.  Their's is, and has been, a TOTAL failure for nearly 1500 years.  As I see it, our ONLY mistake is feeding these vermin so they grow up to be enemy soldiers we need to kill.  Easier to just starve them.  Their total contribution to modern civilization does not equal 1 American.

The F*****g Iraqi SCUM sent us the anthrax bugs; time to send them some modern thermonuclear devices in return!!

im sure the taliban will be shaking in there sandals when they hear about the Hot headed American armchair commandos making idle threats.

yeah lets send this thread to Osama and the taliban and watch them give up there AKs or commit ritual suicide in fear of a handful of under-trained American gun owners who got there butt hairs in a knot.

i believe in taking a more Conservative approach to this, so NO Nukes.

the taliban and osama hate us because our system of govt works? HA!, this has got to be one of the biggest myths that US newspapers have spewed to the American people.
if this was so, why havent they attacked japan, germany, england, australia?
Osama and his family have Hundreds of MILLIONS of $$$, something must work for them.

the American corporations and military being involved in the middle east is what got us in this mess.

i would compare the taliban to be nazi-like, not all germans/afghanis support the nazi/taliban, or knew how things would be when they got into power. all those women in afghanistan who are forced under the burkha and had jobs, education, RIGHTS and Freedom im sure dont support the taliban.
i met an iranian man who is the nicest guy you could ever meet, and one of the best italian chefs ive seen, but he snuck out of iran to keep from fighting the iraqis. his brother was caught and arrested for trying to get out.  

i do support the way GW is handling this situation, and im not even an anti-war person, if they drafted me i would go with no problem. i believe in taking out the radical taliban and osamas network, but not killing everyone just because they are afghani or muslim.

im sure this will piss off a bunch of people here, but thats my view, kick me off the boards or out the country if you all wish.

Post from LAgunman2K -

Just how precisely did US corporations and the US military being involved in the Middle East get us into this mess?  Let's hear this one!

Because it inspired Osama Bim Laden and his riff-raff to come after us?

So the United States, being a sovereign nation, after all, should restrict the activities of its citizens, business organizations, and its military to activities that Bin Laden approves of, for fear of another such attack?

I guess if your wife/girlfriend/significant other ever gets raped by a stranger, it's basically her fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and looking soooo good
in the first place?

Eric The(GladYouAin'tRunningTheShow!)Hun[>]:)]

someone called for a 60 gunner earlier I am hear and as for the room clearing im trained for that too let me know what to bring.  DSA has MAG 58 for $3395 two of thos would support around 26 of us

john

ok ill clarify -- what did the terrorists attack ? pentagon, USS Cole (military targets). embassys and World TRADE center(2x) (corporate targets), attempts made to attack the WTO in seattle during Y2K.
why those places? it would of been easier to place car bombs in the local shopping mall, or spread sarin gas in the NY subway.

our military involvment in the middle east is seen as an insult to the radical muslims, not my opinion, Theirs.
the US military goes into saudi arabia to fight iraq and save all the Precious Oil for the Oil companies (corporate). and then WE DONT LEAVE, again this is read by many radical muslims as a religious INSULT, where the military and corporate world of a VERY YOUNG Country comes in and pushes there weight around.

well we were in rome and did NOT do what the romans do. im not saying we have give up anything as a nation, just try not to step on people and there beliefs.

when you invite your family of inlaws (who you dont like much from the start) over for thankgiving dinner, how would you feel about them if they NEVER leave, and start telling YOU how to run your household ? i think most would be feeling PISSED OFF.
this is more or less the situation that the US put itself into with saudi arabia after the gulf war, which then was the spark for osama and other radicals to plan attacks on the US.


and then of course is the US building and support of israel.

i think we should of pulled out of the middle east a long time ago.

the rape scenario doesnt wash.

i have no problem with that, and in the end we will have to send in more ground troops, war is dirty business and is bound to get dirtier.

but i dont agree with the "for us or against us"
i have no doubt that many people there are totally against the taliban and osamas network, they are the reasons that plunged that country into another war, the country hasnt seen peace in over 25 years (maybe longer).

but since they are against the taliban (like the NA) does that mean they have to like us? and trust us?
one of the documentaries thats been running on discovery channel shows an old afghany talking about how the US supported the mujahdeen during the russian invasion, but then left them hanging after the war, and did not help rebuild their country.
whether or not we should is up to personal opinion and interpretation.
would we be better off if we had?
would the taliban not be in power today if we had rebuilt afghanistan?  who knows.

strangely, we occupy saudi arabia after the gulf war (in an effort to help and protect it) and there are those radicals that hate us for it. but we dont rebuild and HELP afghanistan after there war and there are those that hate us for it.

sometimes we just cant win

We had no obligation to rebuild Afganistan then and we sure as hell don't now.  Let the stinking Saudies rebuild their "brothers" play house if they are such good moslems!

I get damn sick of all this apologist BS about how the US had anything to do with starting this!  We may be partly responsible by holding back Israel when they wanted to crush these VERMIN or when we failed to complete the job against Iraq.  But that is IT!  The KEEY is they are for or against.  No middle ground.  No diplomatic double talk like Colon Powel. (Yea I know how HE spells it - my opinion of him is clearly expressed by MY spelling!!)  Either they HELP us win this war or we attack them too.

As far as the "oil war" we should have (and still should) TAKE their oil as war reparations!  I have no problem with invading SA for that purpose. They have provided ZERO assistance in this war against one of their own.

Half measures ain't gonna cut it this time.  D storm, Nam, Korea - whatever.  This needs to be total all out war against all enemies with a level of death and destruction that is too horrible for them to even think about.

Bin Laden and the Taliban are one and the same.  He is part of that government.  We need to hunt down and exterminate each and every one of them, however long it requires.  If nukes are needed - fine.  Napalm in million gallon amounts - go for it.  Any other piss ant country like SA wants some, that is fine too!  Iraq is behgind the bug attacks and a nuke is REQUIRED for that just as the gov said it would be during Desert Storm!   We probably let the VERMIN use chemicals on us in 91 - time for payback on that score too!

Post from LAgunman2K -

'Precious oil'? 'Precious oil' for the Oil companies?

You meant the same 'precious oil' that's refined by those same oil companies and finds its way into my gas tank to get to work tomorrow? And to get my clients to my office to see me, so I can make a living?

That 'precious oil'?

The same 'precious oil' that's used by trucking and railway companies to get food to me and my family that's been grown by American farmers using the same 'precious oil' to till their fields and harvest their crops? That 'precious oil'?

You mean the same oil companies that keep military/corporate/civilian America on its feet? And at the head of the table of nations?
That 'precious oil'?

So, I suppose we could live in a nation that doesn't need any 'precious oil'!  I suspect that it won't be long now before Afghanistan is no longer needful of any 'precious oil.'

Really, LAgunman2K, shouldn't you be rioting at some WTO 'globalist' meeting somewhere?

Eric The('PreciousOil'Indeed)Hun[>]:)]

Post from LAgunman2K -

Really, praytell why it doesn't 'wash'? [>]:)]

Nuke them from Orbit!!!!!
It's the only way to be sure!!!!!!!

My biggest problem with sending in Ground troops is what are we gonna do when the NA decides that they want a piece of us too?
We would be surrounded by hostiles.
And what with Russia sending the NA all sorts of goodies, it would be an easy task.
Then throw in the fact that Pakistan is on the verge of collapse, their nukes will inevitably end up being used against us.
Here and there.
Add Saddumass into the fracas with his special weapons...
Not to mention China who want's nothing more than to see us get our collective asses kicked...

This will very likely get very ugly before
anything else happens.

The sooner that we accomplish our goals
and show these pukes that we are not going to stand for their BS, by using whatever means necessary,
the better off we will be in the long run.

All this pussyfootin around ain't gonna do us one damn bit of good. More likely it will cost more lives than it will save.

Analogy:
Shoot 1 BG with a .22lr 10 times(9mm 42 times) probably won't make them(group) stop their agressive act towards you.
or,
Hit them with a 12 guage in the face.

Not only will you stop the act but the rest of the group will have second thoughts about continuing as well.

Somewhere along the line we have to say "Enough"
and make a definitive action.
[b]And to hell with anyone who doesn't like it.[/b]

As GB said, "It's time to take the gloves off."

The faster it is done, the less people are going to whine about it.

I hear 100,000 Pakastanis decided to cross the border and aid the Taliban.  The crux of the problem here?  The Radical Islamics still have hope.  The US hasn't yet shown them that 'resistance is futile'.  They are still holding on to the pipe dream that they will win a war against the US and cause the downfall of the United States.  The Afghans still believe that their fight with the USSR is what caused it's collapse.  Somehow I don't think a bunch of guys in bedsheets riding on donkeys is  what truly derailed the Russian military machine.

But no one want to get as dirty as nuclear weapons.  Try this one out.  Air-fuel bombs.  Simply the most lethal non-nuclear bombs in the US arsenal.  Use [b]those [/b]things to soften the Taliban up before ground operations.  Remove whatever hope they have of actually fighting against the US.  Remove that hope and all these screaming bastards from every other country in the middle east that want to go to Afghanistan to aid the Taliban will get quiet real quick.  Someone clone MacArthur real quick and put him in charge.

This is turning into another Vietnam, we are not playing to win.  Hell, I don't even think we are playing not to lose.

Wow, this thread is still alive. I figured the apologists would have wrung the life out of it by now.

For those of you asking about Saudi Arabia torturing US service people:
During the war, they were under the mistaken assumption that our guys fell under the purview of their justice system. Several (like 25) men and women were arrested for stupid shit, like watching the wrong TV channel and not ‘behaving appropriately in public.’

One specific example is:
A 19 year old kid named Mullens, he was pulling roadblock duty outside Riyadh. A member of the royal family felt that he asked too many questions, for which he was arrested. I don’t know all the details after that but when they let him out the guy had been beat to a pulp.

I understand that beatings were pretty much SOP for the people unfortunate enough to annoy some islamo fascist.

Up until now it’s been in our politicos ‘best interest’ not to. That’s changed.


Heh,  And the people who remember are just getting old enough to run for office. [X]

Most of us don’t subscribe to the ‘forgive and forget’ form of politics. It’s more like remember and payback.
- unfortunate
.
.
.
For them


Bzzzt.
I know everything about that Achmed. I have, in fact, left many of them bleeding out on the sand. Hell I even speak Arabic and Farcy care of unca sugga.In another ten years those languages will be as obsolete as Attic-Greek and Latin. Wanna talk about “Breaking the cycle of violence”? [:)]

The politicians have become a reflection of the candy ass mentality in society at large.
No one has the will to do what must be done.
I see some of you sissies saying NO NUKES.Well it's too bad you don't have the stomach for doing the hard thing.I've heard it said "we are more civilized than them,so we must do the civilized thing,and not kill innocent civilians".I think a good idea is to send in a ground force of overwhelming size and strength,accompanying them should be a top rate Hollywood movie crew,then they kill EVERYONE,no exceptions,and kill them in the most brutal,heinous ways imaginable.Film men,women and children hanging from power poles with their intestines hanging out,burnt to a crisp etc.Let's show these middle ages minded people how medieval we can get with them.After it is over and EVERYONE is DEAD we will broadcast this film too all Arab countries with the warning that this is what awaits ANY country that fucks with the United States,total destruction,total death,no exceptions.

Some of you may not agree,I don't fucking care.

Molitas, I care, and I AGREE 100%!  These people only respect overwhelming force!

I dunno about the cave to cave crap.

Seems like a waste of good men & resources!

I say NUKE the FOKKERS & NUKE EM good!!

My good men, I have some experience in this matter.  If it's in the CZ it dies.  Here's some of my platoon's handiwork back in '91.
[img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/038/O0/VH/X4/Lp10931.jpg[/img]

GoatBoy wrote:

"Lets give the innocents one week to get the hell out of town, drop info for them to run, bombard their radios, etc... make it CLEAR we're coming and hell is coming with us."


A good portion of those "innocents" trying to get into Pakistan are probably Taliban, or at the least sympathizers of Al Qaeda.  Tough to tell combatants from non-combatants over there.

However, the Taliban supporters in Pakistan are moving into Afghanistan to joint the fight against the U.S.  Let 'em come!  Then, when a concentration of them is spotted, send a few A-10s over to say "Howdy".  Remember the carnage on that highway leading north out of Kuwait City?  Much of that was caused by the ultimate "strafing run" by some Warthogs.  

Some muslims in England are supposedly heading to Afghanistan to fight alongside the Taliban, too.  If we wait until enough of those fools are in place, we could get a whole bunch of them at once.