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Posted: 10/24/2001 8:42:11 AM EDT
Where can you get FACTUAL information about the results of the bombings and Special Forces / Ranger raids in Afghanistan? If the support for this effort has any long range chance for success, the American people need to be shown significant successes. Americans will only wave the flag so long before their arms get tired and their resolve weakens. I realize that the best course of action regarding FUTURE attacks is total silence until the deed is done, but why hold back information on the accomplishments? I'm tired of hearing about how many Afghan non-combatants are being killed, while hearing NOTHING about how many Afghan / Taliban forces and leaders have been killed or captured. "W" might be conducting an excellent military campaign ( how would you know? ) but IMHO it's been a poor selling ( Public relations) job to America herself. Somebody tell me I'm wrong. Please.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:49:55 AM EDT
W don't like the press and vice versa. They will eventually screw him.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:53:04 AM EDT
Everybody here would like to see/read details about how the Specops raids are going. The sad truth of the matter is, that the average American sheeple these days can't handle the thought (or sight) of our fighting men being drug through the streets like they were in Somalia. GWB knows that, and realizes that when (not if) we start to take heavy casualities support for the war will wane quickly with the vast majority of our country's population. So sad, but I believe, so true also. I'm not trying to say that casualty reports wouldn't bother me, it's just that I realize there is going to be a "cost" incurred when cleaning out all those caves.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:01:14 AM EDT
UNfortunately you'll soon see the media blitz abt starving people of Afghanistan, how unfair it is for them & all. Like 1) they were starving before we got there, 2) Thier own govt is the one starving them with inequitable food distribution, 3) If there is only enough food where you live for 100 people & you have 500 living there don't be surprised at all the growling bellies. This will be used to get the bombing stopped so the Taliban can rebuild through the next several months, and OBL can relocate. The Media is not the friend of the American people, GW is keeping them out of it as much as possible. I was in Somalia & I can attest to the scum that these journalist are. They caused us to go somewhere we had no business being in the first place. They don't/haven't/won't be the impartial reporter of reality. It will be what ever sells, rivets people to the screens & wins them a pulitzer. It's entertainment in the most gruesome form. Other than that I have no opinion....
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:02:24 AM EDT
It is not our government's job to decide what can and can't been stomached by the people. Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it. It was a terrible decision to have to make, but they made it and it probably saved lives on the ground. But to lie and coverup and deceive afterwards makes them no better than the Soviets or the North Koreans or the Nazis.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:14:04 AM EDT
Dustoff: [url]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/penttbom.htm[/url] [url]http://www.debka.com/[/url] [url]http://www.janes.com/[/url] These are a few site I check regularly looking for info such as you requested. Mike
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:22:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it.
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Glad to see the voice of reason injecting some cold hard facts into the debate. Blindly trusting the federal government is a risky proposition at best, but I'm all for them keeping things under wraps if it will help achieve victory. I tend to believe the US military learned their lesson with Vietnam with respect to the role of the American media.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:22:46 AM EDT
The feds don`t want facts reported.....they admonish the media constantly, for letting out what they DO have....you can get some different insight on foriegn newscasts....but they seem respectful of the u.s. gvt. wishes.......as far as the "aid"...the arabs don`t know much about western eating habits, let alone desire to eat any of it....."what the hell is peanut butter?"...................[argue].......(arghh..taste like shit....but achmed, it IS shit....oh thank allah....I thought it was ME)...[spank]
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:25:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it.
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Glad to see the voice of reason injecting some cold hard facts into the debate. Blindly trusting the federal government is a risky proposition at best, but I'm all for them keeping things under wraps if it will help achieve victory. I tend to believe the US military learned their lesson with Vietnam with respect to the role of the American media.
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HEY...we at least got some new american "heros" out of that one...........
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:34:44 AM EDT
Oh yeah...the paranoid types are out in force today.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:47:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 10:43:07 AM EDT by Norm_G]
Originally Posted By BlackandGreen:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it.
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Glad to see the voice of reason injecting some cold hard facts into the debate.
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HEY...we at least got some new american "heros" out of that one...........
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Bonehead 1 Bonehead 2 (apologies if that "reason" was tongue in cheek) Bonehead 3
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:23:21 AM EDT
Thanks for the websites, Mr Wilson. I'll give each of them a try. I realize that the news media is going to exploit the war to expand their leftist viewpoints, that's a given. Doesn't that give emphasis to my original point? GW is also fighting a media war and keeping successes under wraps plays right into their hands. To paraphrase Cuba Gooding, Jr, "Show me the bodies"
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:24:16 PM EDT
Why yes norm...Dan Rather tells the truth,the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth......and ALL THE TIME........[stick]
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:25:39 PM EDT
Yep... we live in such an 'instant gratification' society. If we don't see results RIGHT NOW.... we lose interest. What were we talking about??
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 4:27:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2001 4:21:25 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Well trickshot: I'm still waiting or don't you check your e-mail? If not here: Trickshot, In one of your post you say: [b]It is not our government's job to decide what can and can't been stomached by the people. Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it. It was a terrible decision to have to make, but they made it and it probably saved lives on the ground.[/b] Is this the plane that went down in PA? Where did u read or hear this? I thought it was folks on the plane that cause'd it and would appreciate any info/articles you got that indicates otherwise. Thanks I like to stay informed, Mike Sent yesterday shortly after I read his post, sent to his e-mail. Mike
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 4:45:58 AM EDT
It`s nice to see those of you who are so warm and comfy with the government/media explanation of the "heros" who saved the white house.........there basically is no back up because the whole thing was squelched.......believe what you want........................"OUR PRESIDENT WOULD`NT LIE TO US!".......(would he?)...................[stick]
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 5:26:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: It is not our government's job to decide what can and can't been stomached by the people. Take Flight 93 for example--they shot the fucker down and then lied about it. It was a terrible decision to have to make, but they made it and it probably saved lives on the ground. But to lie and coverup and deceive afterwards makes them no better than the Soviets or the North Koreans or the Nazis.
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It's a shame we have to disgrace the memory of the brave people on that flight that really prevented disaster on the ground by perpetuating gov't conspiracy rumors. Sad...very sad. Bradd
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 6:03:13 AM EDT
Okay BlackandGreen: [b]I'm not warm and comfy about it I just want to know where (article/link/whatever) you guys are getting info that the plane was shot down by the Gov.[/b]? Not looking for flames here, I'm looking for a reference or facts, and no I'm not interested in "I heard from a friend type of thing." I saw some good pics on the crash site, and it was fairly well contained area, If a missile took it down, (I'd like to know) seems the crash itself would have been spread over a larger area. If you or anyone has anything other than hearsay, heck I for one would like to read/see/hear it. I wouldn't trust the gov any further than I could throw an ATF agent. Waiting patiently, Mike
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 6:30:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Okay BlackandGreen: [b]I'm not warm and comfy about it I just want to know where (article/link/whatever) you guys are getting info that the plane was shot down by the Gov.[/b]? Not looking for flames here, I'm looking for a reference or facts, and no I'm not interested in "I heard from a friend type of thing." I saw some good pics on the crash site, and it was fairly well contained area, If a missile took it down, (I'd like to know) seems the crash itself would have been spread over a larger area. If you or anyone has anything other than hearsay, heck I for one would like to read/see/hear it. I wouldn't trust the gov any further than I could throw an ATF agent. Waiting patiently, Mike
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Well, since I`m bonehead #3, are you sure you care to waste your time?........If you do, we can discuss one item at a time......[:(]
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:08:11 AM EDT
I did not call u a bonehead and I don't know about "one item at a time" how about just letting me know where this info came from. I heard "hearsay" that wreckage of Flight 93 was found 8 miles from crash site, which kindof refutes my own above statement. Unfortunately I can't find any verification of that hearsay. Where, what link/article/newsource? Mike
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:14:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:17:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:23:57 AM EDT
Perfect illustration Paul, that's what I'm talkin 'bout, show me the links/articles/news source. I can show you a book that will back up Paul's statement, including tests on the missle residue taken from a seat on the plane by 3 different labs. Come on guys, show me something other than you [b]think[/b] so. Mike
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:46:32 AM EDT
Since the incident was hushed ALMOST immediately,there is no facts available that I am aware of.......however, if you care to dwell on the media reported facts...then why do you call the wreckage at 8 miles hearsay, since that was reported NUMEROUS times in the American news services.....one question...Did anyone see a close-up of the crash site?........how about a overhead?.....as far as missle count.....it IS entirely possible that no leak occured in that fighters on alert are privy to about 10 persons, and the entire excercise is classified matter as soon as the armament is on the airplane.......Paul...there was a view of the mre`s being fed to the goats...hey, if I was starving, I would try them would`nt you?
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 7:58:27 AM EDT
Anyway, mr. wilson, there are a couple more "observations" that I do not wish to discuss here......flight 800 was some time in the past...plenty of time for investigation and hindsight.....if anyone doesn`t think the government isn`t pressuring the media right now...they need to wake up and smell the coffee.....you believe what you want...I`ll believe what I want... call me bonehead...paranoid or whatever you want....all I can think to respond is...."c`mon sheeple, open your minds!"....were the passengers on 93 heros?....I believe they were...THEN there`s the rest of the story....If "documented" proof is required...sorry...none available AT THIS TIME.......the feds flatly denied any involvement with 800 didn`t they....believe whatever you wish.....don`t ask me to prove my beliefs.....they ARE NOT based on "I THINK SO"..and such an insult to my intelligence is unwarranted...........[stick]
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 8:57:51 AM EDT
[b]Well B&G I have a e-mail address, use it[/b]. I'll be adios'ing outta here early to get up to the farm for a long week end of deer hunting, so I'll have to pick this up on monday. W/ TWA 800 within days there were considerable rumblings around the net, and I frequent most of the tin-foil hat sites just to see what conspiracy they are up to. Just haven't see anything other than the pics I mentioned from the paper of crash site and no did'nt read or see the 8 mile crash stuff, I heard it from a workmate. Hence "[b]hearsay[/b]" not the kind of info I place much stock in. You fellers talk like you know, I was just interested on what you based your knowledge on. I'll state again "[b]I did not call you or trick any names[/b]". Have to admit though after seeing you waffle on discussing "[b]one item at a time[/b]" (whatever that meant?) there were a few that crossed my mind. I'll be patient though, Mike
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