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Posted: 10/22/2001 10:18:41 AM EDT
Here's a very interesting note on the recent US Special Forces action near Kabul! [size=4]Chinese fighters killed in U.S. strikes[/size=4] [b]At least 15 dead found fighting on side of Taliban[/b] © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com Military sources in Dushanbe and Bishbek, capitals of Tajikistan and Kyrgizstan respectively, report at least 15 Chinese fighting men on the side of the Taliban, were killed in last week’s U.S. bombing over Kahandar and in a separate incident on the ground, according to the DEBKA intelligence news service. This report was confirmed, reports DEBKA, by Pakistani sources in Peshawar, who discovered the Chinese presence alongside the Taliban from their own intelligence reports on the death of the commander of Arab Afghan troops in Jalalabad. That commander was Basir al Masri, a senior aide to Osama bin Laden and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad chief, Ayman al-Zawahiri. Al Masri appears to have been caught by an American bombardment, just as he was leaving Kahandar for Jalalabad after meeting Taliban leaders. Those leaders warned him as he left that U.S. Special Forces units were operating in the southern and western outskirts of the town. Because they thought the size of his bodyguard insufficient, they offered a detail of their own men to see him safely past the danger zone. [b]Among that armed escort were five Chinese fighters. A Special Forces unit waylaid the group and detonated explosive charges, one of which hit Abu Basir’s vehicle and a second the escort vehicles. Most of the escort was killed, including three of the Chinese guards[/b]. The next day, their bodies were carried into Kandahar. Another 10 Chinese fighters were killed in U.S. bombardments, DEBKA reports. The intelligence service reports its sources have no doubt that the Chinese combatants fought in a Taliban unit – and were not part of Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda or its associated Egyptian Jihad forces in Afghanistan. Neither organization admits non-Arab adherents – certainly not as guards for its senior officers. The Chinese-bin Laden relationship goes back some years. The British daily, Guardian, carried a report Saturday by John Hooper in Milan, claiming that three years ago, China paid bin Laden several million dollars for unexploded American cruise missiles left over from the U.S. attack on his bases. Hooper quotes an alleged senior Al Qaida agent in Europe, whose account is contained in the transcript of a secretly taped conversation between two bin Laden adherents. See remainder of story at:[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25026[/url] Eric The(TwoBirdsWithOneStone,Eh?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:28:47 AM EDT
Dude, there are about 130 million Muslims in China, mostly in the northwest. They are persecuted by the PRC. Several terrorist groups have grown up to resist the atheism of the PRC. Under normal circumstances we would be supporting them. But they have decided to develop links with BinLaden. During the war against the Soviets, China supplied the Afgan resistance, and permitted several thousand Chinese Muslim men to go and fight the Russians.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:42:22 AM EDT
DEBKA again! Aren't they the ones who reported hoards of Chinese troops being rushed into Afghanistan to help the Taliban? DEBKA is just plain goofy! The National Enquirer of the internet. DaMan
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:19:15 PM EDT
My 2 cents worth: Most of the people of China are ethnically known as "Han". They are the people that we would first think of when someone says "Chinese looking". The people of Northwest China are mainly Muslim and are ethnically much closer related to the Central Asian people, including Afghanis. As ArmdLbrl points out, there is much tension between these people and the "Han" Chinese. The latter are aggressively trying to assimilate the former into the Chinese way of life, whatever that is. I would guess that the "Chinese fighters" mentioned in this story (if it is true) are probably Muslims from NW China.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:24:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 3:18:32 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:47:16 PM EDT
Take a look at the people in Tajikistan and Kasikstan, many look totally Asian. China and Mongolia are right next door. The people in that region are not Chinese but are probably of Mongolian descent or Mongolian/Arabic/Tibetan. Man! Why is it anytime someone sees an asian face, they are automatically "Chinese". I remember an Armenian friend telling one of my Korean friends that where his family came from, there were a lot of Muslims that looked totally Korean/Asian. And I laugh everytime that I hear that there are "Chinese" in Mexico. All I can think about is my Korean friend walking around in Ensenda with his family and tin foil hat types running back to the US screaming, "THE CHINESE ARE COMING! I'VE SEEN EM' WITH MY OWN EYES!"
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:38:31 PM EDT
Hun, I would be surprised if there were "NO" Chinese fighting. One of the fundamental bed-rock problems bothering much of that world is country borders drawn on maps by occidentals without any thought as to real tribal boundaries. These folks tend to view others of their by hisytorical tribal ties as opposed to so-called countries. Korea and Vietnam are two countries that immediately come to mind where the introduction of artifical borders have caused problems. The French and the British did much of the line drawing right after WWII. This problem must, must be addressed if there is to be long-term peace. Probably won't be of course as that makes too much sense.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:49:13 PM EDT
DEBKA is not saying there are ethnic Chinese moslems involved in the fighting. They are claiming that the PRC is sending troops to support the Taliban! This is just plain goofy! But some "Enquiring Minds", believe this crap! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:01:42 PM EDT
I could believe china sending troops over to support the taliban and fight us. China doesn't really like America, they are always trying to buy weapons we made so they can make them and use them agaist us.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:05:57 PM EDT
I worked with a guy from Pakistan, but his family had come from China. It is impossible to regulate those high mountain borders and he admitted to sneaking into the PRC all the time. It wouldn't surprise me to see Chinese mercenaries or Muslim Chinese in Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:06:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sodie: And I laugh everytime that I hear that there are "Chinese" in Mexico.
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There [b]is[/b] a LARGE contingent of ethnic Chinese in Mexico. In 1882 the US enacted the "Chinese Exclusion Act". Instead of leaving North America, they simpley went across the border.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:11:14 PM EDT
The Taliban say the Chinese government is assisting them [url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/221001/dlame81.asp[/url] And Sodie, what does the Chinese moving into Central America have to do with tin foil hats. Seriously, some of you guys need to open your eyes.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:21:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman: The Taliban say the Chinese government is assisting them [url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/221001/dlame81.asp[/url] And Sodie, what does the Chinese moving into Central America have to do with tin foil hats. Seriously, some of you guys need to open your eyes.
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I won't address the Chinese in Central America (especially Panama)...... BUT!!!!!! Mullah Jalaluddin Haqqani is the same guy who claimed that the Taliban had shot down two US helicopters and killed 20-25 US SOF troops! His credibility is "questionable"! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:24:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaMan: I won't address the Chinese in Central America (especially Panama)...... BUT!!!!!! Mullah Jalaluddin Haqqani is the same guy who claimed that the Taliban had shot down two US helicopters and killed 20-25 US SOF troops! His credibility is "questionable"! DaMan
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OK I will agree with you there. But, if there are so many chinese in Afganistan, why haven't we seen any in any of the news, documentaries, etc.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:27:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 6:30:52 PM EDT by Sodie]
I have personally been to Mexico many many times, back and forth to Cabo. I don't know how many times but a lot. I have never seen any Asians, period!, besides my Asian/American friends. I have other friends that come from Guadalajara, they have never seen any asians either, save maybe one Chinese resturant which is more Mexican than Chinese in flavor. All the locals stare at my friends like like they're space aliens or something, that's a pretty good sign that there are not a lot of Asians down there. You can "Claim" all you want, I've personally been down there. I've heard about boat people in Mexico, but most of these are from southeast asia. It's like finding a white person in East LA. They're there but in such small numbers, when you do find one, it's strange. Another thing, it's really funny watching my Korean and Japanese friends trying to explain what nationality they are. No, no...not "chino"... Koreano y Japones. All he gets is a curious look, "Que?" "Ahhhhh!" "Si!" "Chinitos!?" Get it? Just like all hispanics are some how "Mexicans", down there all Asians are all "Chinos". As for my other fishing buddy from Singapore...forget it! He gave up and now just sticks with "Chino".
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:32:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 5:29:00 PM EDT by LotBoy]
Looks like the Chinese are playing both sides.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:40:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman: But, if there are so many chinese in Afganistan, why haven't we seen any in any of the news, documentaries, etc.
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SNorman, because the reports of PRC troops aiding the Taliban are just pure BS! DaMan
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:26:46 PM EDT
[size=4]Putin Affirms Support for Taliban Foes[/size=4] International Herald Tribune Online is reporting that Tajiks are actually serving in the Army of the Northern Alliance as commanders and specialists, see article at: [url] http://www.iht.com/articles/36550.html[/url] If Tajikistan permits its Islamic citizens of faith to serve in the Northern Alliance, what makes anyone think that Red China would not do the same for their own Muslim minority? And to permit them to serve the Taliban? And Putin supports it all!!! Isn't THAT remarkable! But no big deal to some I suppose! Enough DEBKA bashing aside, what is the basis for opposing the obvious? Red China gets rid of some of its more hot-headed and hot-blooded ruffians, settles some ancient and all but forgotten scores, and causes the Western World no small amount of discomfort! [b]Priceless![/b] Eric The(LetEveryVoiceBeHeard)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:42:23 PM EDT
I wouldnt be suprised if the PLA was letting Muslim soldiers fight with the Northern Alliance. After all, they supply the NA with weapons, requested by and paid for by the US government. Why wouldnt they send advisers? The Taliban? Well before 9/11 the Chinese may have sold weapons to bin Laden (even though he was training and funding terrorist elements in North West China) on a cash and carry basis. Maybe they let some of their Muslim's emigrate or escape to join him (although I dont think LET had any part in it- they just went and the PRC couldnt stop them). But since 9/11 they have been trying to get on the US's good side (in exchange for dropping trade restrictions). The PRC's only concerns that also involve the US are in Taiwan and the Korean peninsula. And their military isnt ready to do anything about it, their conventional forces modernization is a decade away from completion. If Red China wants to get themselves intangled in the mess that is this regions politics, all the better for us. But what is the deal with all this Sinophobia? If it werent for Taiwan and Korea we wouldnt have any confrontation with the PRC at all. It is highly likely we will go to war with China over one or the other or both, but it will be China that has to start it and they are not ready yet and wont be for a while. The Chinese show no interest in westward expansion, they show some interest in central asia, but that is Russia and India's problem, not ours. So why do some of you keep acting like they are going to wading ashore in California tomorrow?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:53:37 PM EDT
I don't even think it's very cynical of Red China (I am a 'two China' kind of guy) to set up some of its own Central Asian Muslims to get in the fray on either side, play both sides up the middle, so to speak. Whenever China wants to divert attention from itself or its sphere of influence is says something or does something to disturb India or Russia! Shake the Hindu Kush! It has succeeded in doing both in this instance! Eric The(It'sAmostPureConfucianism)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:04:41 PM EDT
And if you carefully read the DEBKA article you will note that it cites two other journalistic sources for its Sino-Taliban connection: The Guardian -
The Chinese-bin Laden relationship goes back some years. The British daily, [b]Guardian[/b], carried a report Saturday by John Hooper in Milan, claiming that three years ago, China paid bin Laden several million dollars for unexploded American cruise missiles left over from the U.S. attack on his bases.
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and The Washington Post -
In addition, the Washington Post reported Sept. 13 that Beijing signed a memorandum of understanding with the Taliban for greater economic and technical cooperation -- the last of a series of Chinese agreements with Afghanistan in the last two years. The Post characterized China's relationship with the Taliban as the closest of any non-Muslim country. [u]The memorandum of understanding was, ironically, signed Sept. 11.[/u]
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Now how's that for a remarkable coincidence! Years from now you and I will vividly remember where we were when the WTC was struck by these terrorists. So, apparently, will the Red Chinese. [b]They were shaking hands with our butchers that day![/b] Eric The(Ball'sInYourCourt,Hunny!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:04:09 AM EDT
Those nuts are probably from Indonesia or something. Me thinks it's time for the PLA to roll tanks into Indonesia and crush the protesters a la Tianneman Square style. Anyways, I won't believe the fighters are "Chinese" until I see these: [img]http://www.intrepid.net/sabre/maocap.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 5:40:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 5:36:53 AM EDT by a2carbine]
DEBKA is just about as full of sh!t as one can get but the ISI(Pakistani intelligence) ,CIA (us) and MI6(UK) have said that Bin Laden is working with the Chinese so they can study the US and how we fight. There is SOMETHING to this,I don't know about the PRC putting fighters in there,if thats what they want us to get out of this. Tajikistan and Kyrgizstan have reported more that once that there are Chinese working with Bin Laden's people and pay he for intelligence,they want to see what we are up to and I think it's a good thing. Now they will see we are NOT as soft as they seem to think we are. Somebody on TV Sat. had a very goods point(I think it was FOX)they said"Red China will need to rethink the power they feel a Mil. man army gives them after they see us take out 8,000 Taliban troops from the air befor the first man gos in." Now this will make the Chi-comms want more nukes but Bush will have good old Puten(I think thats how you spell it)out to the ranch next month to talk about ABM and how we can get the hell out of it, if we get our way on this the Chi-comm are in a world of sh!t. They don't have the cash the USSR did so there will be no cold war this time they will just fall by the way side. This Bin Laden guy is really gon'a pay off for us in the end[:)]He will let us show our a$$ to the world that seems to think we have run out of balls.
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