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Posted: 10/22/2001 1:59:21 AM EDT
[url]http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001350021-2001364909,00.html[/url] [b]FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent[/b] FROM DAMIAN WHITWORTH IN WASHINGTON AMERICAN investigators are considering resorting to harsher interrogation techniques, including torture, after facing a wall of silence from jailed suspected members of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda network, according to a report yesterday. More than 150 people who were picked up after September 11 remain in custody, with four men the focus of particularly intense scrutiny. But investigators have found the usual methods have failed to persuade any of them to talk. Options being weighed include “truth” drugs, pressure tactics and extraditing the suspects to countries whose security services are more used to employing a heavy-handed approach during interrogations. “We’re into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking. Frustration has begun to appear,” a senior FBI official told The Washington Post. More... I'd say now's not a good time to be a terror suspect.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:24:12 AM EDT
How interesting! Can I come and help? Remember, it's not how many bones you break, it's how you move the pieces around. Or how about some good ole fashioned Reddy Kilowatt?[IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG]Always clean and effective!
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:28:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By platform389: How interesting! Can I come and help? Remember, it's not how many bones you break, it's how you move the pieces around. Or how about some good ole fashioned Reddy Kilowatt?[IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG]Always clean and effective!
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How appropriate.LOL [IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/otn/violent/zx11shocked.gif[/IMG]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:59:25 AM EDT
Do whatever it takes. Guz
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:12:20 AM EDT
In Israel, there is an absolute prohibition against any form of torture! There is [b]one[/b] exception, however, that even the Israeli Supreme Court has recognized: [b]The 'Ticking Bomb' Exception![/b] The Israeli Supreme Court permits the use of a 'reasonable amount of physical force against a detainee' in situations where there are serious concerns over the present lives and well-being of others! I say 'Let the beatings begin!'[BD] Eric The(I'llTakeMyTurnWithThePliers,IfNeedBe!)Hun­[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:43:05 AM EDT
Did they threaten them with pork?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:44:59 AM EDT
Of course these guys aren't going to role over! The FBI hasn't got squat! All these hundreds of arrests all over the world and guess what....ALL of them will soon be released! We are to civilised to hold them.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:47:40 AM EDT
sodium penathol will work
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:51:18 AM EDT
What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:53:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:34:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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Wow!, I totally agree with you. For the Constitutional protections to mean anything the must be applied to everyone.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:36:39 AM EDT
Administer Sodium Pentathal. This bullshit. I would have done that day one. Ben
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:40:56 AM EDT
....Vee haf vays tu make yu talk......
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:54:48 AM EDT
Bah!! A little sleep depravation, a little general anesthetic (to block the higher cognitive processes) and some LSD. The guy will tell you ANYTHING (spooky part is, they usually come out of it thinking it was a dream)
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:00:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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exactly right. I have no sypathy for those involved with the attack, but this is just too close to giving up our own civil liberties.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:06:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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Another point to consider gentlemen. Are these people actual citizens, or more of the "here on visa" crowd. If they are non-citizens, they have no rights at all.[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/sarge/Slam_anim.gif[/IMG]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:09:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garheadjr:
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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exactly right. I have no sypathy for those involved with the attack, but this is just too close to giving up our own civil liberties.
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These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) We could march them out behind the courthouse and shoot them in the head. No judge, No jury, only executioners. What is it about American society that makes people knee jerk sympathize with the enemy?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:23:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone:
Originally Posted By garheadjr:
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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exactly right. I have no sypathy for those involved with the attack, but this is just too close to giving up our own civil liberties.
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These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) We could march them out behind the courthouse and shoot them in the head. No judge, No jury, only executioners. What is it about American society that makes people knee jerk sympathize with the enemy?
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Sorry people, but these guys ahve the exact same "rights" that we have, our constituion doesnot give us these rigths, these rights are god given. The constitution just puts these rights down on paper.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:25:31 AM EDT
If they are non-citizens, they have no rights at all.
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Of course they have rights. Anyone in this country, or within our control, has rights. Read the Constitution.z
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:25:55 AM EDT
The best torture is for them to watch while their family members are killed. By the way, they really don't have the same "civil rights" or "human rights" that I do. First, they aren't citizens. If I kill someone in their country I will not get either civil or human rights. Second, under a natural law theory of rights when you do something bad enough you surrender your human rights. GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:31:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo:
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone:
Originally Posted By garheadjr:
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
View Quote
exactly right. I have no sypathy for those involved with the attack, but this is just too close to giving up our own civil liberties.
View Quote
These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) We could march them out behind the courthouse and shoot them in the head. No judge, No jury, only executioners. What is it about American society that makes people knee jerk sympathize with the enemy?
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Sorry people, but these guys ahve the exact same "rights" that we have, our constituion doesnot give us these rigths, these rights are god given. The constitution just puts these rights down on paper.
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You and the law are in disagreement on that little point – and whose god? Would that be the god of Mohammed? How about the god of Zarathrustra? Did Zeus grant these people rights while our legislature was getting anthrax vaccines? I do have a constitutional right to ignore your drivel. I believe I’ll exercise it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:45:40 AM EDT
I say send em to Hell, but not at the expense of liberty and freedom. Next it will be someone in AZ, then in my city, then my neighbor, your kid, wife, brother or sister. We cannot allow it. The Constitution was written to keep this kind of $hit from happening. Too many good men and women have died for these protections to allow them to be circumvented by the emotion of the moment. If these guys are NOT US citizens, then all we have to do is extradite them and let the Isreali's do some interception work. If they ARE US citizens, then we absolutely CANNOT circumvent thier Constitutional rights. It doesn't matter how much we hate or dispise what they may have participated in or planned on.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:55:42 AM EDT
AZ – These people were in this country illegally and acting as agents of and entity we are at war with. They have no rights. I would also advise you would be constitutional law experts to read up on the war powers act.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:00:05 AM EDT
blowtorch...small flame (very small).....high heat...start with the small toes and burn the flesh to the bone....the'll talk. probable wouldnt reach the knee
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:03:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:07:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 9:02:22 AM EDT by Waldo]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:15:14 AM EDT
We should declare them spys, and threaten to execute them if they don't talk. Begin shooting these spies one at a time, wrapped in pig-intestines, in front of the remaining spies. ------ "Hi-jack this, fags."
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:16:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:12:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:15:45 AM EDT
I don't think they should untill the suspects out convivted in a "court of law." Then they can tourture them. As it is, isn't it possible they could be tourturing an innocent people? I am not one to think that it's NEVER risk hurting an innocent, in fact sometimes If IT ives a garrentied result I feel it may be the best choice, but come'on, these guys may not know anything anyway. . . I don't think it would be the best idea. JMHO, Justin
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:22:12 AM EDT
They aren't human, they should be treated like the refuse they are.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:23:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 10:18:15 AM EDT by redray]
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone:
Originally Posted By hielo:
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone:
Originally Posted By garheadjr:
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
View Quote
exactly right. I have no sypathy for those involved with the attack, but this is just too close to giving up our own civil liberties.
View Quote
These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) We could march them out behind the courthouse and shoot them in the head. No judge, No jury, only executioners. What is it about American society that makes people knee jerk sympathize with the enemy?
View Quote
Sorry people, but these guys ahve the exact same "rights" that we have, our constituion doesnot give us these rigths, these rights are god given. The constitution just puts these rights down on paper.
View Quote
You and the law are in disagreement on that little point – and whose god? Would that be the god of Mohammed? How about the god of Zarathrustra? Did Zeus grant these people rights while our legislature was getting anthrax vaccines? I do have a constitutional right to ignore your drivel. I believe I’ll exercise it.
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TOO LATE ASSHOLE, YOUVE RESPONDED. AND ALSO, IF YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THESE MOTHERFUCKERS HAVE RIGHTS IN THE UNITED STATES OF PISSED OFF AMERICANS, YOU SHOULD PUT YOURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES. I BET YOUR VIEWPOINT CHANGES FAST THEN WONT IT???? I SAY TORTURE THE BASTARDS. THEN USE THEM FOR BAIT. AND IF THAT DOESNT WORK, KILL THEM AND THROW THEM IN THE GARBAGE.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:35:09 AM EDT
Read my post before flaming.
Bah!! A little sleep depravation, a little general anesthetic (to block the higher cognitive processes) and some LSD. The guy will tell you ANYTHING (spooky part is, they usually come out of it thinking it was a dream)
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These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) We could march them out behind the courthouse and shoot them in the head. No judge, No jury, only executioners. What is it about American society that makes people knee jerk sympathize with the enemy?
View Quote
You and the law are in disagreement on that little point – and whose god? Would that be the god of Mohammed? How about the god of Zarathrustra? Did Zeus grant these people rights while our legislature was getting anthrax vaccines? I do have a constitutional right to ignore your drivel. I believe I’ll exercise it.
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AZ – These people were in this country illegally and acting as agents of and entity we are at war with. They have no rights. I would also advise you would be constitutional law experts to read up on the war powers act.
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To whit you responded
TOO LATE ASSHOLE, YOUVE RESPONDED. AND ALSO, IF YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THESE MOTHERFUCKERS HAVE RIGHTS IN THE UNITED STATES OF PISSED OFF AMERICANS, YOU SHOULD PUT YOURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES. I BET YOUR VIEWPOINT CHANGES FAST THEN WONT IT???? I SAY TORTURE THE BASTARDS. THEN USE THEM FOR BAIT. AND IF THAT DOESNT WORK, KILL THEM AND THROW THEM IN THE GARBAGE.
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Turn your caps lock off. This isn’t an AOL board. What are you, like ten years old?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 10:36:13 AM EDT by Master_Blaster]
What if an innocent winds up being "tortured" into telling the "truth" - Oops(?) Sorry about that(?) The Taliban has been criticized for its harshness on Afghani's (particularly women). If so, then how would we compare? This has the makings of Pandora's box - somewhere down the line. My pop left the old country - I won't say which one - years ago to get away from totalitarian crap. Don't flame me for pointing this out. I don't do so to be whimsical or contrary. I understand the frustration. [heavy][USA]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:40:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 10:36:00 AM EDT by redray]
no reflex zone, i posted without seeing your last post as i was typing when u were too i assume. AND BY THE WAY, HOW DO YOU LIKE MY CAPS? you asshole.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:45:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 10:45:54 AM EDT by zoom]
YOU SHOULD PUT YOURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES. I BET YOUR VIEWPOINT CHANGES FAST THEN WONT IT????
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What does being related to a victim have to do with what the Constitution says? I don't remember the clause, "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted, [i]unless you're a relative of the victim[/i]." No, that clause doesn't exist.z
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:49:36 AM EDT
I don't see where a little chemistry brought into play could be considered harmful, or even uncomfortable. Hell, it might even be enjoyable to some. Scopalimine, or Pentathol, come to mind. You'd get to the truth, without (permanent) harm to the subject. Then maybe feed the hogs. .
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:43:27 AM EDT
I also agree that "truth" drugs should be used. If they really are innocent they get released with no real harm done.
Originally Posted By Bermshot: I don't see where a little chemistry brought into play could be considered harmful, or even uncomfortable. Hell, it might even be enjoyable to some. Scopalimine, or Pentathol, come to mind. You'd get to the truth, without (permanent) harm to the subject. Then maybe feed the hogs. .
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Link Posted: 10/22/2001 12:13:22 PM EDT
Whether or not the Constitution applies to these sand cruds is irrelevant.They are shit.Animals that need to be killed,at any cost in any way imaginable.I don't care about them or their useless lives.Our rights are not God given since there is no God,no deities,no supernatural intelligence.Our rights were bought and paid for in blood on the battlefields of days gone by.Our rights will have to be reaffirmed in such a manner in the future.When I see these Arabs praying on TV rocking back and forth saying their silly worthless prayers I think that they look like something that needs to be killed.A human doesn't act like that.They are feces and not worthy of living on this planet.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 12:43:27 PM EDT
Sleep Deprivation, Sensory deprivation, LSD, rohipnol, nitrous oxide are also possibilities. Threaten to turn them over to Israel or Saudi Arabia.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 12:51:42 PM EDT
The FBI should NOT use Torture on anyone: because sooner or later Torture will be used on ourselves and our children. However, although everyone within our borders has Constitutional Rights (even an illegal Alien) it should be noted that Authorities are NOT bound by the Bill of Rights once they are more than 12 miles off shore.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 12:53:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 12:48:41 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97: The FBI should NOT use Torture on anyone: because sooner or later Torture will be used on ourselves and our children. However, although everyone within our borders has Constitutional Rights (even an illegal Alien) it should be noted that Authorities are NOT bound by the Bill of Rights once they are more than 12 miles off shore.
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Drugs plied without force are not torture Nor is sleep deprivation, it is used by US law enforcement at all levles- its called "being in isolation under a suicide watch"
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:09:10 PM EDT
Quote: Another point to consider gentlemen. Are these people actual citizens, or more of the "here on visa" crowd. If they are non-citizens, they have no rights at all. These guys are not citizens. They have no ‘rights’ except those granted by treaties we have signed. (Incidentally – spies and saboteurs are exempt from those treaties) End Quote When exactly did they strike the words "All men are created equal"? I have visions of these pummelled bodies lying in heaps with four or five investigators walking away, one of them saying, "I guess they really didn't know anything." It doesn't matter if these men are citizens. At this point, it doesn't even matter if they're "the enemy". I've been associated with a lot of people who did bad things, and I've been persecuted for knowing someone even though I did nothing wrong. If you belive in presumed innocence, then even in war, you have to assume that they could be innocent, and to beat an innocent man is wrong.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:10:10 PM EDT
Torture can not be considered. It is one of antithesic principles upon which this country was founded. If we were to adopt torture then we will have dishonored ALL who made this the great country it is. The terrs will have won because we have become like them. And someday torture would be applied to citizens. Maybe not in my lifetime. But in my daughters? In my (future) grandchildrens? I don't want to leave them THAT legacy. Torture would make us feel a little better now, maybe, but is not worth the cost in the long run.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:38:06 PM EDT
Then I will repeat my question. Is the use of Drugs to elicit statments from the uncooperative torture? If they can be adminiistered without the use of force?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:40:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By hielo: What the FBI gets to use on terrorists today, will be used on you and your children tommorow. No thanks.
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Wow!, I totally agree with you. For the Constitutional protections to mean anything the must be applied to everyone.
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IF THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS THEN THEY DO NOT ENJOY THE RIGHTS AFFORDED BY THE CONSTITUTION!
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:59:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Then I will repeat my question. Is the use of Drugs to elicit statments from the uncooperative torture? If they can be adminiistered without the use of force?
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You mean slip them a Micky Finn? [beer] That would still be getting a statement through the use of coercion. While not as dramatic as physical or mental torture it would still be a violation of the principles of 'no torture.'
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:13:36 PM EDT
A lot of these people that are in custody aren't even citizens of the US.....that means that they have no Constitutional rights. I say we just start electrocuting the shit out of them and let the ones who are citizens watch and tell them that they are next. That would be a nice legal form of expediting the confessions from the suspects. Michael
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:20:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone: AZ – These people were in this country illegally and acting as agents of and entity we are at war with.
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Prove it. I would also advise you would be constitutional law experts to read up on the war powers act.
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Read the Constitution, specifically Amendment XIII, Section 1. "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of [i]citizens[/i] of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any [b]person[/b] of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any [b]person[/b] within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You think there just might be a reason why [b]citizens[/b] is used in the first phrase and [b]person[/b] in the second? Because all [b]persons[/b] in the United States, regardless of whether they're citizens or not, are protected by our laws. However, not all [b]persons[/b] have the privileges and immunities of [b]citizens[/b].
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:31:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NH2112:
Originally Posted By No_Reflex_Zone: AZ – These people were in this country illegally and acting as agents of and entity we are at war with.
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Prove it. I would also advise you would be constitutional law experts to read up on the war powers act.
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Read the Constitution, specifically Amendment XIII, Section 1. "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of [i]citizens[/i] of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any [b]person[/b] of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any [b]person[/b] within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." You think there just might be a reason why [b]citizens[/b] is used in the first phrase and [b]person[/b] in the second? Because all [b]persons[/b] in the United States, regardless of whether they're citizens or not, are protected by our laws. However, not all [b]persons[/b] have the privileges and immunities of [b]citizens[/b].
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Well then...it sounds like its time for a Constitutional amendment! We as Americans don't seem to have any rights when we go abroad, so why should we treat people from other countries different when they are over here? Then again, maybe we should take them on a quick hop down to Mexico and drop them off, for containment and "impartial" interror-gation purposes. Then the results could just be communicated back to us while we pay the Mexicans a small fee for continued "housing" of the suspects for their own security. Michael
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:47:35 PM EDT
Any one ever saw the movie Barb Wire? nothing but the best for these assholes
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