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Posted: 10/20/2001 9:13:14 PM EDT
We just got back tonight from a week long vacation. On Tuesday, I was combing through our bags when I found a large butter knife, the semi-formal all stainless steel kind. At first I didn't think too much about it but then I realized that my wife had carried that particular bag onto the plane past not one but TWO security checkpoints, the last one where passengers were randomly selected for a more complete search. Curiously, I was one of the four passengers selected but my wife was not. I called the airline to report the incident and was instructed to contact the airport security supervisors upon our return. The security supervisor said that it must have been in a bag with lots of metal. I then showed her the pack that the knife was in, a nylon pack with only a few metal zippers. The then said that she would "write a note" to the shift that was on duty at the time, but I definitely got the impression that she just wanted us to go away. Feel any better guys?
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 9:26:09 PM EDT
Oh well, so much for sleeping tonight.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 9:29:16 PM EDT
I once took a fully loaded Star PD mag down the concourse.Forgot it was in my coat pocket.That was before all tis started.Still you would think it would have set off the metal detector.
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 9:30:12 PM EDT
Ever think it was recognized for what it was?? and then blown off as not a threat? a good cross pen is more dangerous..pat
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 9:32:56 PM EDT
Keep hyping how bad airport security is and you will reap what you sow! If you dont think this shit is read you are stupid, and since you are not stupid you know a lot of people read it. keep pushing for tighter security and you will get it... in spades... it is called a police state!
Link Posted: 10/20/2001 11:59:59 PM EDT
I work at an airport. Do you think have have any confidense in the Airport Security. I pefered the word: oxymoron. Do you think that the rent-a-cops or the national guards shot better than you or know how to carry a good security search?
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 12:14:11 AM EDT
My mom just returned from Germany. She passed through the Las Vegas airport, and I think Dulles, then on to Frankfurt. On the way back, they stopped her in Frankfurt and found her swiss army knife that had become lodged in a glasses pocket at the bottom of her purse. Since she couldn't reach the bottom of the pocket and hadn't seen the knife for weeks, she assumed it was lost. The point being, she passed two "beefed up" security checkpoint with a mult blade knife on accident. Whadda you suppose commited terrorists could do with say, boxcutters? Sleep tight.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 11:33:04 AM EDT
The problem is not butter knives, box cutters or sharpened crayons. These items should ALL be allowed on flights as well as Spyderco knives, etc. The problem IS no real means of security. When you cannot protect passengers from desperados with butter knives or box cutters do you really have any security at all? Here is a test, try and rob a bank with a box cutter and see what happens. And to FishKepr, why did you report the butter knife incident to the airline at all? I'd like to think they saw it, deemed it a non threat and passed you through. I'm pretty certain they just missed it. But at least, armed with a butter knife, you might be able to defend yourself against the terrorist who managed to board with a sharpened piece of nerf.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 2:24:36 PM EDT
If the PILOTS can't even take a pair of nail clippers on the plane, do you really think that a passenger can take a large knife on board? Wheen we were waiting to board the return flight, a security agent searched our flight crew, patting them down and running a hand into each pocket of their bags. I reported the incident to the airline mostly because I wanted to hear what they had to say. The rep I talked to said that she was "horrified" to hear of it and that I "definitly should not have passed the checkpoint with it." It's not that a large butter knife constitutes much of a threat, it's that the person at the checkpoint was obviously not paying attention.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 2:40:06 PM EDT
Back in '92, I flew from Okinawa to Tokyo to St. Louis with a key chain made from an old 30-06 case and a wooden stained bullet in it. After I arrived at St. Louis (the end of my flight) I needed to go back through a metal detector to get to my parents van. At this point they took my key chain saying it could not be taken with me. I explained that I had just traveled from Japan with it and was going to my car. No dice. I then asked them where the hell I would keep a gun capable of firing a round of that size hidden and they started ignoring me. Apparently they have loosened restrictions [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 2:42:53 PM EDT
ARMALITE-FAN - I did exactly the same thing a number of years ago. I was picking my family up at the airport and decided to meet them at the gate. Stuck the Star PD in the glove compartment, and when I got to the gate I realized I had walked through the metal detector with a spare loaded magazine in my back pocket.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:00:36 PM EDT
Six well trained martial artists could just as easlily take over a plane and six scrawny towelheads with box cutters. Ever think that that a Fed Ex plane could do just as much damage as a passenger jet? Someone could off the pilot and fly one of those into a city. Complete security will never be achieved.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:01:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By paterpk: Keep hyping how bad airport security is and you will reap what you sow! If you dont think this shit is read you are stupid, and since you are not stupid you know a lot of people read it. keep pushing for tighter security and you will get it... in spades... it is called a police state!
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not this again! do you have any evidence for your charges? i mean, examples from the past, particularly in the U.S. where such has happened. though i would settle for foreign examples if that is all you can come up with. most, if not all, of the police states that i am aware of were NOT the result of the people crying for more security, but rather the result of one or a few people who grabbed all of the power and wielded it for their own purposes (you know, those things we call dictatorships). i'm not saying it hasn't happened (or that it can't), but off the top of my head, i can't think of one example where a cry for better security has resulted in a complete police state.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:16:26 PM EDT
I have traveled several times since this all took place and have, with out fail, been "randomly" searched after the initial checkpoint to get to the terminal. I have been told over 100 times in the past, at the range, at parties, on the street, ect. that "I look like a cop" (6'2" 230)....now for some reason I look like a terrorist? I always fly with my bedstand Colt 45 and declare it in checked bags. No ammo. I just buy when I get there and leave it. After a 6 hour flight and a connection I was searched again a 4th time and was getting a little pissy about it all and when I asked the young man checking me that it was just getting a little old constantly being the only one "randomly" chosen to be checked again. He says it should make me feel safer, I say from who, myself, I would feel safer if I could check your pockets because from initial reports it was said that the terrorists were helped by sympathetic airline personell...well he just got all stiff and started to put my stuff in the bag and I then state If you are going to check it at least do a thorough job of it!!!! and I take out the rest of it and show him, then fill it and go on, seething and just about to snap. Let me fly with my 45 and I'd feel safe!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:43:06 PM EDT
I've set off the detectors multiple times in a row and was just waived past like it didn't matter. No search, no little metal detector wand run across me ... no Anything! Some security. A while back, a guy on GlockTalk posted how he made it right through the security checkpoints and onto the plane with his G30. The gun set off the detector, but he was waived through like I was. I'm not surprised at all.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 4:05:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By paterpk: ...keep pushing for tighter security and you will get it... in spades... it is called a police state!
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not this again! do you have any evidence for your charges? i mean, examples from the past, particularly in the U.S. where such has happened. though i would settle for foreign examples if that is all you can come up with. ...i'm not saying it hasn't happened (or that it can't), but off the top of my head, i can't think of one example where a cry for better security has resulted in a complete police state.
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I think you answered your own question. paterpk views any increase in airport security as a slippery slope to a police state and by all accounts domestically, he is correct and you concur. With every mass shooting both federal and state legislation is passed as people beg to be made more safe. Already this attack has spawned numerous bills in Congress that will erode our civil rights and only us civil libertarians seem to be resisting. Implementing more of the same security measures will only result in more attacks. The ONLY sure bet against more crashbombing is unlimmited carry of firearms by passengers.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 4:39:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2001 5:06:06 PM EDT by ARlady]
Originally Posted By NoFFL:
Originally Posted By ARlady:
Originally Posted By paterpk: ...keep pushing for tighter security and you will get it... in spades... it is called a police state!
View Quote
not this again! do you have any evidence for your charges? i mean, examples from the past, particularly in the U.S. where such has happened. though i would settle for foreign examples if that is all you can come up with. ...i'm not saying it hasn't happened (or that it can't), but off the top of my head, i can't think of one example where a cry for better security has resulted in a complete police state.
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I think you answered your own question. paterpk views any increase in airport security as a slippery slope to a police state and by all accounts domestically, he is correct and you concur. With every mass shooting both federal and state legislation is passed as people beg to be made more safe. Already this attack has spawned numerous bills in Congress that will erode our civil rights and only us civil libertarians seem to be resisting. Implementing more of the same security measures will only result in more attacks. The ONLY sure bet against more crashbombing is unlimmited carry of firearms by passengers.
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on the contrary, stricter security measures do not a police state make! i'll grant that these stricter measures have eroded our rights, in some cases, immensely! but i would hardly call our current circumstances a police state. i don't mean to split hairs, but just what exactly defines a police state for you (anyone in general)? i have some vague ideas, but to be logical, we should probably be arguing about the same police state. i'll be back when i've got the ideas more concrete. then we can discuss! okay, done some checking up on the way of it in the republic. i won't deny that we are creeping (and i stress creeping) towards a more police-like state of affairs. however, bitching about the laughable state of "security" in airports and elsehwhere is [b]NOT[/b] what will lead to a police state.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:17:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FishKepr: ... a security agent searched our flight crew, patting them down and running a hand into each pocket...
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This was starting to sound, uh, frisky, until you spoiled it with...
of their bags.
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Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:36:57 PM EDT
Has anyone noticed an inconsistency from airline to airline? At the nearest airport, I saw one airline have their walk-through's set so sensitive that a couple of coins would set if off, and in another guy's case, his hard-pack of Marlboro's. Oh yeah, if you had a big belt buckle, they would still make you try again - you had to fail twice before graduating to step 2, even if it was guaranteed you'd set it off again. This was before the first WTC incident. The security people were not only rude, but also very difficult to communicate with due to their ESL status. When you COULD get a concept across (like "why can't I just go to the electronic wand"), they didn't seem to understand why you would ask that. It look like the security company figured if they had a standard procedure, they could pay mimimum wage and get the job done. No sense required. Then we started using another airline - different section of the terminal - and whoa! It seems like I didn't even have to empty my pockets - not even a ring of 15 keys would set it off. Go figure.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:59:53 PM EDT
PRK, Frisky? Well then you'll get a kick out of this... When I was selected for the random search the young lady first ran her hands up and down the insides of my legs, then I was kind of surprised when, well, let me put it this way. She made absolutely sure that I did not have anything inside my waistband. Yes, she checked all sides and the process required undoing my belt buckle. She was polite enough to ask first.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:32:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:10:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FishKepr: PRK, Frisky? Well then you'll get a kick out of this... When I was selected for the random search the young lady first ran her hands up and down the insides of my legs, then I was kind of surprised when, well, let me put it this way. She made absolutely sure that I did not have anything inside my waistband. Yes, she checked all sides and the process required undoing my belt buckle. She was polite enough to ask first.
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Sign me up!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 6:02:05 PM EDT
I'd be glad to let a good looking woman search me. Hell, I'd say "Do You Want To Make That A Strip Search ?"
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