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Posted: 10/19/2001 7:46:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 7:41:55 AM EDT by Santyth]
Good [b]GOD[/b]. This reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch. "I'd like to leave the army sir. It's dangerous! There's people out there with guns!" (CNSNews.com) - An increasing number of U.S. military personnel who enlisted prior to Operation Enduring Freedom are now seeking conscientious objector status, claiming they were misled by their local recruiter and military advertising, according to groups that assist people in obtaining conscientious objector status. Many of the enlisted personnel who are now seeking honorable discharges argue they didn't sign up to defend America; they just wanted to learn a trade or earn money for college. [url]http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPentagon.asp?Page=/Pentagon/archive/200110/PEN20011017a.html[/url]
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 7:51:24 AM EDT
Man... people like that piss me off... Like they didn't REALIZE what the military IS FOR and what IT DOES?? Sheesh... they should all be dishonorably discharged, and have ALL of their benefits REVOKED.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:00:54 AM EDT
"Like, uh, yeah, I was handed a rifle in basic anbd taught how to shoot...Yup, I was taught some hand-to-hand and bayonette skills. But, I never thought that they were, like, serious." Send 'em to Afghanistan on mine clearing duty.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:02:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 7:57:28 AM EDT by WOIM]
"sign the dotted line do the time"...I say we give them all genaral discharges then turn around and DRAFT them. edited to ad yeah i know theres no draft but if there was!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:05:50 AM EDT
What the hell are these people thinking? Duh, isn't that what a military is for, to defend your country by killing and breaking things?
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:07:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Santyth: Good [b]GOD[/b]. This reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch. "I'd like to leave the army sir. It's dangerous! There's people out there with guns!"
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"RIGHT! Now then,.....Is there anyone else who has something better to do than marching up and down the square?" "Um, actually me....there is a movie I've been wanting to see." "RIGHT, off you go then. OK Who else has something they'd rather be doing then marching up and down the square?" This is actually the fault of recuiters and those responsibly from destroying the honor and dignity associated with being a member of the US armed forces. They have so f*cked over the status of soldiers that you now have to trick or bribe people into the armed forces.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:12:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 8:14:00 AM EDT by LARRYG]
This is unbelievable!!!!! If you are a conscientous objector, you DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY. More of the "I'm not responsible for my own actions" syndrome in this country. Saying the recruiters mislead them when they were joining the MILITARY?????????? Please, when does this PC bullshit end? During 'nam, CO's did not join the military, except maybe as a non-combatant such as a medic. At least back then, people had enough sense to realize that if you join the infantry, you may have to fight. Per Bill Galvin of the Center on Cowardice (that's not the real name, but that's what it amounts to)
Galvin defines the term conscientious objector as those "who would identify moral or ethical qualms about being in the military or being a part of war."
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This makes their entire argument a lie. By the group's own admission, a CO does not join the military in the first place. Steyr, don't blame the recruiters. That goes along with what these people are saying. These people knew exactly what they were doing, they just figured they would not have to go to war. Now they are lying about it. The are not CO's. They are cowards. It's people like this Galvin and Bill Clinton who have fucked up the honor of being in the military, not the recruiters. The recruiters are having to overcome that, but anyone with any sense at all would realize that joining the military encompasses the possibility of going to war. These people knew that, figured it would not happen, and now are lying to cover up their cowardice.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:16:37 AM EDT
Dis-honerable discharge, make them pay back all pay and benafits then sue them for entering into a false contract, or didnt they have to raise their right hand and swear to " defend my country against all enemies forign and domestic" and then beat the livin S!#T out of em just because. [stick] [:)>]
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:17:01 AM EDT
Hey, Hey HvyAR - That is what happens when you put the people who know (and are good at) killing people and breaking things out to pasture and let a bunch of PR PUKES hand out black berets like they were candy on halloween!! [soapbox]
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:22:23 AM EDT
It doesn't get much more dishonorable than this. A Big Chicken Dinner for all of them.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:28:37 AM EDT
This really pisses me off. I spent 8 years in the Army, and always had expectations that I may have to go fight for my country. Worse than that, I also knew I would be one of the first to go. When the time came, I went, I did my job, I kept my head on, and I came home, again and again. The problems with the youth of today is that they are all a bunch of whiney little pussies who don't care about anything but themselves. Rarely, before Sept. 11th, did you ever see a fine display of patriotism by anyone or any institution. Only now that terror has stuck in the homeland does anyone care about being an American. The worst part is that the kids still don't care. I get goose bumps everytime I hear the national anthem. I wish I was still in the Army to go kick some ass, unfortuantely I am not. The conscientious objector whine has always pissed me off. It's a complete load of crap. Shut up and do your jobs, as so many before you have done. It's the whole liberal attitude that makes these people this way.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:28:40 AM EDT
They're not CO's, they're just cowards. I knew people while I was in the service who would've gotten out if they could. All branches have them. Generally they're referred to as shitbirds, slackers and flakes. I wouldn't want to share a fighting position with one. Give them a "dishonorable" and boot them. "Right!.. Off you go then."
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:31:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By huntclubsec: Dis-honerable discharge, make them pay back all pay and benafits then sue them for entering into a false contract, or didnt they have to raise their right hand and swear to " defend my country against all enemies forign and domestic" and then beat the livin S!#T out of em just because. [stick] [:)>]
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HUAH!!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:43:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth: They're not CO's, they're just cowards. I knew people while I was in the service who would've gotten out if they could. All branches have them. Generally they're referred to as shitbirds, slackers and flakes. I wouldn't want to share a fighting position with one. Give them a "dishonorable" and boot them. "Right!.. Off you go then."
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I disagree. No free rides here. They shouldn't be able to use that bullshit excuse. You pack them up, and ship them to Afghanistan. Hand them a rifle and say go clear that cave.If they don't you shoot them for cowardice in the face of the enemy. After you shoot a couple of them, I guarantee you'll see the others start to come around. What a bunch of losers! "I didn't think I would have to defend my country" What a crock!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:44:54 AM EDT
That is as low as you can go. If you don't want to fight then don't join the Fucking military. When considering joining the military you should always weigh the possibility of going to war or worse dying for your country. I personally (I'm 19) would like to join the military and have considered it for about a year now. This Summer, I'll go down and enlist. I have no problem going to war. Then again I was raised different than most of these pukes I grew up with. My Grandfather was an Army Seargent in WWII, my Uncle was a Navy Seal in Vietnam, Several of my Mom's family died in WWII and Vietnam. I was raised in a world where the Military relisticly meant you could end up at war and you could die. Maybe these idiots hould have considered that before they raised their hands and pledged an oath to defend America from enemies Foreign and Domestic. There are several solutions: 1) Dishonorable Discharge. Rough equivelant of a felony. No Rights for the rest of their lives. They deserve it. 2) Permanent Latrine Duty. Make them clean the shit they spew. 3) Send them into caves strapped with explosives and a remote switch so they cannot wimp out.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:45:53 AM EDT
I was never able to join the military due to very serious cancer when I was 18. Several recurrances have also stood in the way. I am a patriot and a soon to be productive citizen (I defended my degree this semester). It makes my blood boil to no end to hear this crap! I would do anything to be in their position. Crud, I can't even give blood(I'm O neg. by the way) but I'm surrounded by ingrates who won't take the time to do it themselves.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:47:08 AM EDT
216 ways to be a soldier. Just give me the one that don't require dying! [:D] An army of one.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:53:59 AM EDT
How we got here: 1) Hippies Spawned Children 2) One of them, Bill CLinton became President 3) This new President signed an executive order allowing Gays in the military 4) Army decides to "service the enemy" rather than "kill the enemy" 5) Army begins airing ads advertising all the great thing the Army has to offer. Noticably missing are references to war and dying. 6) Slogan changesd From "Be All You Can Be" To "Army Of One" 7) Everybody Gets SF Berets to make them feel good 8) America Gets attacked and these liberal sissy cowards abandon us in our time of need The world has gone in the crapper, just shoot these cowards and save us the trouble of dealing with them.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:54:08 AM EDT
They should be executed for treason, honestly. I am really sick of hearing of these leeches, joining up for benefits.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 8:56:23 AM EDT
I ought to try that one on my Boss: Me: "Yeah I want to get payed, but I do not want to do the job you are paying me to do. I just want the Money" Boss: "Go To Hell, Your Fired !!!!"
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:01:57 AM EDT
I have a suggestion. We get all these buttwads together, equip them with; a butter knife, a bottle of Evian, a couple power bars, and a parachute (parachute optional). Then we shove their collective ass out of a plane over the roughest Taliban controled terrain we can find in Afganistan. This would have several salutory effects; It would cleanse the system. It would set an example. And it would tend to lull the Taliban into a false sense of security. We would get at least some use out of these useless bastards.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:08:12 AM EDT
Freakin flamers...all of them, they should be shamed publicly...but who would shame them?? all the civillians who by sept 12th were screaming "send in the Paratroopers", knowing well that they don't know anyone going. All of a sudden whenever I'm in cammies I'm "Joe average's" favorite buddy walking down the street. In a way it is a result of the military...we have largely become quiet professionals...we are rarely seen on the news, tv. Being 19 I know the mindset of my generation...and there is one sole reason for the unwillingness to defend one's ass and one's buddies ass. I never had to work for a thing unless I wanted to...highschool was a joke, holding a job is a game, and personal responsibility doesn't exist. In the ARMY I learned that if my buddy fucks-up and we fail the mission, it's my fault...I should have anticipated, no matter if it was totally his individual liability...it has only to with the sole accomplishment of mission oriented goals, nothing else. HOOAH!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:13:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: How we got here: 1) Hippies Spawned Children 2) One of them, Bill CLinton became President 3) This new President signed an executive order allowing Gays in the military 4) Army decides to "service the enemy" rather than "kill the enemy" 5) Army begins airing ads advertising all the great thing the Army has to offer. Noticably missing are references to war and dying. 6) Slogan changesd From "Be All You Can Be" To "Army Of One" 7) Everybody Gets SF Berets to make them feel good 8) America Gets attacked and these liberal sissy cowards abandon us in our time of need The world has gone in the crapper, just shoot these cowards and save us the trouble of dealing with them.
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You forgot one. I don't know what they call it, but here goes... 9) They issue stress timeout cards in Basic Training to take the pressure off of the poor, abused, trainees. Total Horsecrap! We wouldn't want em to experience any stress before going into a battle. They might actually learn to handle it! Now THERE is a concept...
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:19:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 10:37:37 AM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By WOIM: "sign the dotted line do the time"...I say we give them all genaral discharges then turn around and DRAFT them.
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Negative, let them all spend 10 years in general poulation at Leavenworth. They can do hard labor to work off the pay and benefits they've received.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:19:59 AM EDT
I keep hearing my drill instructors voice yelling....."Are you some kind of pansy communist bastard trying to infiltrate my beloved Marine Corps!" [:D] Not to take blame away from the cowards, but it makes me wonder what boot camp is like these days.... "Sir I am a lean, clean, humanitarian machine! Aye aye sir!" [BD] A36Pilot - Your way works too!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:20:37 AM EDT
We had a CO in my platoon. An 18 year old who joined, of all things - THE INFANTRY, for the benefits. Two weeks after arriving at his permanent duty station he shipped out with the rest of us. A few weeks later with his feet planted on Iraqi soil, he develops a moral objeciton to the duty he swore to do. He was stripped of his weapon and given every sh!t detail possible. Every soldier in my Company got a piece of him at every opportunity. After returning home, he went on a little vacation to that resort in northeastern Kansas. I hope he's still there, the sh!tbag!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 9:23:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 9:23:40 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
At the risk of being accused of trying to destroy the military, they need to... 1. Purge all armed forces of those who do not wish or are not fit to be there. 2. Restructure the entire armed forces as a elite class of fighting men that many would not qualify to join. 3. Use them exclusively for the defense of US interests alone. 4. They will have REAL benefits and be taken care of for their service to their country. 5. Create a "new" peace keeping force designed for bullshit PC, UN operations. We can call it the Peace Corp. 6. The Peace Corps ranks will be full of idealistic peacenicks, tree huggers, etc. They will be recruited from our finest Universities. The will operate under slogans of "Solutions Other Than War", etc. 7. The benefits and pay will be comparable to the other "peace corps." After all, money is not the issue, it is about visualizing world peace and saving the planet. They will receive similar government funding. So war or diplomatic incident occurs and we immediately send in the Peace Corps, who will operate under the direct control of the UN. And they will do their gosh darndest to resolve the situation without violence or conflict and with their limited financial resources. But hey "Where there is a will, there is a way. Just think positive, etc." On the off chance that they are murdered/slaughtered/anally raped by terrorists for days, we send in the REAL US aremed forces "if" the situation warrants it. But to be safe we'll probably send another P.C. division in to find out why these guys are so upset....
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:02:29 AM EDT
Let me give you an example of my situation: I was commissioned in the Navy right after dental school and served my time '92 - '95. The Navy didnt offer a scholarship program at that time and I joined simply to get more clinical experience and get the heck out of Michigan. After leaving the Navy I went into private practice and now teach in a dental school as the director of the faculty private practice... I joined the Army Reserve about 18 months ago after they waved a $30,000 sign on bonus in front of me... So I took it. Weekend/month and 2 weeks/year drill... easy, piece-o-cake. With that, it was my understanding that in time of war, I could be called again to serve my country. I'm fine with that, which is why I joined the reserves... should I get called up my employer has to keep my job for me. In private practice, all my patients would have saught treatment elsewhere and I could have lost my practice... Anyway, after joining the reserves it was also my understanding that I could be deployed overseas like in desert storm... fine. I dont mine doing dentistry in a tent and best case I could remain back here in the states to back-fill the slots for those who do go overseas. If I went overseas, I'm cool with the fact that my tent could be hit by a SCUD... I got my SGLI. BUT, and this is a big BUT! I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! YES, I'm willing to die for my country should an incoming missle hit base camp or the aircraft carrier that I'm on.. but I sure as Heck aint gonna put my ass intentionally in a ringer. I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse. I'll face UCMJ then go back to my cushy state job or go back into private practice once they send me home. Does that make me a non-patriot? Of course not. I am willing to serve in the capacity for which I am best at doing. What I do have is a problem with people who sign on and take the government's bonuses and then when a crisis hits America they say "I dont wanna go". I'm not one of those people. So when you hear people say that they are concientious objectors... there may be a small few who have something to back their particular situation up with. M.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:08:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: Let me give you an example of my situation: I was commissioned in the Navy right after dental school and served my time '92 - '95. The Navy didnt offer a scholarship program at that time and I joined simply to get more clinical experience and get the heck out of Michigan. After leaving the Navy I went into private practice and now teach in a dental school as the director of the faculty private practice... I joined the Army Reserve about 18 months ago after they waved a $30,000 sign on bonus in front of me... So I took it. Weekend/month and 2 weeks/year drill... easy, piece-o-cake. With that, it was my understanding that in time of war, I could be called again to serve my country. I'm fine with that, which is why I joined the reserves... should I get called up my employer has to keep my job for me. In private practice, all my patients would have saught treatment elsewhere and I could have lost my practice... Anyway, after joining the reserves it was also my understanding that I could be deployed overseas like in desert storm... fine. I dont mine doing dentistry in a tent and best case I could remain back here in the states to back-fill the slots for those who do go overseas. If I went overseas, I'm cool with the fact that my tent could be hit by a SCUD... I got my SGLI. BUT, and this is a big BUT! I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! YES, I'm willing to die for my country should an incoming missle hit base camp or the aircraft carrier that I'm on.. but I sure as Heck aint gonna put my ass intentionally in a ringer. I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse. I'll face UCMJ then go back to my cushy state job or go back into private practice once they send me home. Does that make me a non-patriot? Of course not. I am willing to serve in the capacity for which I am best at doing. What I do have is a problem with people who sign on and take the government's bonuses and then when a crisis hits America they say "I dont wanna go". I'm not one of those people. So when you hear people say that they are concientious objectors... there may be a small few who have something to back their particular situation up with. M.
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Let's see insubordination, disobeying a direct order, cowardice in the face of the enemy. You won't be going back to a cushy job. You will be breaking rocks in Leavenworth. You are not following your oath by disobeying the order. Then again why would they need you at the front ?
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:10:59 AM EDT
"Is it safe? ..... Is it safe?......IS IT SAFE?!"
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:22:16 AM EDT
Well, B J Clinton wanted a legacy.... THIS IS IT!!!!! [:(!] Bulldog OUT
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:33:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Originally Posted By cc48510: How we got here: 1) Hippies Spawned Children 2) One of them, Bill CLinton became President 3) This new President signed an executive order allowing Gays in the military 4) Army decides to "service the enemy" rather than "kill the enemy" 5) Army begins airing ads advertising all the great thing the Army has to offer. Noticably missing are references to war and dying. 6) Slogan changesd From "Be All You Can Be" To "Army Of One" 7) Everybody Gets SF Berets to make them feel good 8) America Gets attacked and these liberal sissy cowards abandon us in our time of need The world has gone in the crapper, just shoot these cowards and save us the trouble of dealing with them.
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You forgot one. I don't know what they call it, but here goes... 9) They issue stress timeout cards in Basic Training to take the pressure off of the poor, abused, trainees. Total Horsecrap! We wouldn't want em to experience any stress before going into a battle. They might actually learn to handle it! Now THERE is a concept...
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Stress cards a myth. They dont have them. can you produce one? I have been hearing this story since 1992 the first time I went to basic I got hurt got out went again in 1995 did my time.....but both times they talked about stress cards I never had them i always heard stories like " the guys in Echo battery have them" walk over to echo battery guess what no stress card. I went to FT mcClelon(MS) and Ft Sill. my brother in law and his wife both just got out of basic. Ft Jackson and Ft Benning. Neither had stress cards they both heard stories of stress cards but niether of them acctually saw one.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 10:59:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: Let me give you an example of my situation: I was commissioned in the Navy right after dental school and served my time '92 - '95. The Navy didnt offer a scholarship program at that time and I joined simply to get more clinical experience and get the heck out of Michigan. ... etc etc...
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At first I thought this was a joke, then I realized he's serious.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 11:46:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: Let me give you an example of my situation: I joined the Army Reserve about 18 months ago after they waved a $30,000 sign on bonus in front of me... So I took it. Weekend/month and 2 weeks/year drill... easy, piece-o-cake. With that, it was my understanding that in time of war, I could be called again to serve my country. I'm fine with that, which is why I joined the reserves... This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! YES, I'm willing to die for my country should an incoming missle hit base camp or the aircraft carrier that I'm on.. but I sure as Heck aint gonna put my ass intentionally in a ringer. M.
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You sure seem to be fitting several descriptions with what's wrong with this country & the military in general. You want something ($30,000 bonus) for nothing (reserve duty). You "claim" to be a patroit yet when YOUR country needs & assigns you to a duty, you shirk it. Shame on you sir. What you should do is take a long look at the Iwo Jima Memorial & realize that one of those Marines was a CORPSMAN from the NAVY! You thoroughly dishonor every Navy medical member who ever heard a shot fired in anger. Why don't you simply tell them you're GAY & get it over with?
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 11:51:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: Let me give you an example of my situation: I was commissioned in the Navy right after dental school and served my time '92 - '95. The Navy didnt offer a scholarship program at that time and I joined simply to get more clinical experience and get the heck out of Michigan. After leaving the Navy I went into private practice and now teach in a dental school as the director of the faculty private practice... I joined the Army Reserve about 18 months ago after they waved a $30,000 sign on bonus in front of me... So I took it. Weekend/month and 2 weeks/year drill... easy, piece-o-cake. With that, it was my understanding that in time of war, I could be called again to serve my country. I'm fine with that, which is why I joined the reserves... should I get called up my employer has to keep my job for me. In private practice, all my patients would have saught treatment elsewhere and I could have lost my practice... Anyway, after joining the reserves it was also my understanding that I could be deployed overseas like in desert storm... fine. I dont mine doing dentistry in a tent and best case I could remain back here in the states to back-fill the slots for those who do go overseas. If I went overseas, I'm cool with the fact that my tent could be hit by a SCUD... I got my SGLI. BUT, and this is a big BUT! I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! YES, I'm willing to die for my country should an incoming missle hit base camp or the aircraft carrier that I'm on.. but I sure as Heck aint gonna put my ass intentionally in a ringer. I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse. I'll face UCMJ then go back to my cushy state job or go back into private practice once they send me home. Does that make me a non-patriot? Of course not. I am willing to serve in the capacity for which I am best at doing. What I do have is a problem with people who sign on and take the government's bonuses and then when a crisis hits America they say "I dont wanna go". I'm not one of those people. So when you hear people say that they are concientious objectors... there may be a small few who have something to back their particular situation up with. M.
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Were you ever taught how to shoot a rifle?
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 11:53:53 AM EDT
Don't blame the kids, don't blame the recruiters.... Blame the DAMN parents. I can't tell you how many dumb-ass (or maybe they were very good actors) privates that I worked with. It's not their fault (nothing is). The blame falls on the owners of the little egg and the little swimmer.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 11:57:50 AM EDT
First, we need to get rid of General Shinseki (Chief of the Army). That dude sucks!!! Next send all those cowards Shinseki lured into the Army with berets and college money to Ft. Leavenworth Finally, hire real Americans with a warrior spirit.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:00:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse M.
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Well then, I want a refund, cuz I'm payin you to fight. I can't believe ANYONE is stupid enuf, or selfish enuf, to join the military, and then refuse to pick up a rifle and fight, if their country asked. Move over, sissy. Let this broken down, hobbled, overweight turd (me) fight in your place.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:12:01 PM EDT
I had to sign some paper work in college for ROTC. I rememeber a Sgt. walking through the stuff line by line. When he got to the CO stuff he even defined it for us so that there would be no confusion.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:12:57 PM EDT
my .02 its also the way young minds are formed nowadays...for 18 years kids hear "guns are bad lets get along" dont fight... talk out your diffrences .... then all of a sudden they enlist are are taught to kill , which goes agaist every grain in their little libreal minds... some one here said it right hippies are allowed in the gene pool ,, and this is the result Cluster USMC
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:40:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Santyth: Many of the enlisted personnel who are now seeking honorable discharges argue they didn't sign up to defend America; they just wanted to learn a trade or earn money for college.
That's just disgusting.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:46:12 PM EDT
I'd like to go to medical school. Not really to learn anything or be able to help people, I just wanna make six to seven figures. Can anyone direct me to a program that will pay for my tuition and make me a doctor? Just DON'T ask me to work in a hospital, or especially an ER. I didn't sign on for that.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:50:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kramrd: I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse.
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Now what's that word I'm thinking of???
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 12:53:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WOIM: Stress cards a myth. They dont have them. can you produce one? I have been hearing this story since 1992 the first time I went to basic I got hurt got out went again in 1995 did my time.....but both times they talked about stress cards I never had them i always heard stories like " the guys in Echo battery have them" walk over to echo battery guess what no stress card. I went to FT mcClelon(MS) and Ft Sill. my brother in law and his wife both just got out of basic. Ft Jackson and Ft Benning. Neither had stress cards they both heard stories of stress cards but niether of them acctually saw one.
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I got out in 86, so I never saw them. That is very interesting. I need to do some research on that. Thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:01:00 PM EDT
We had a rash of this BS when we deployed to Desert Shield. One candyass even went as far as to convert to islam, then claim that he couldn't go kill his muslim brothers. I remember seeing him on the Fayetteville local news. F'n disgrase. I dont remember the oath word for word, but I know it didn't have an "unless I'm a freakin dentist" clause. Round em all up and use em en masse to clear the minefields and soak up the bullets in the first wave so the real soldiers can use thier worthless carcasses as cover. "If you are not with us..." Airborne Infantry
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:06:05 PM EDT
It is beyond credulity that someone would have signed up for the military without thinking about whether they were willing to kill. I sincerely doubt that any of these people really have a moral objection to killing for their country. They have an objection to being killed for their country. They should be shipped out like everyone else in their unit. If they disobey orders, they should suffer the consequences. I won't find fault with someone who is a conscientious objector. I will find fault with someone who is a coward and uses conscientious objection as an excuse. My father was a conscientious objector during the Korean War. So I have respect for people who believe that way, but not if they are doing only to wimp out of doing their part for their country. My dad performed alternative service as an orderly in a hospital in Denver. Which I'm sure did not require the sort of sacrifice that many servicemen made, some of them the ultimate sacrifice, but it's much different than drawing a salary and benefits from the military and then refusing to do your duty when the time comes.
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 1:03:37 PM EDT by SSgtUSMC]
Originally Posted By kramrd: Let me give you an example of my situation: I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! YES, I'm willing to die for my country should an incoming missle hit base camp or the aircraft carrier that I'm on.. but I sure as Heck aint gonna put my ass intentionally in a ringer. I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse. I'll face UCMJ then go back to my cushy state job or go back into private practice once they send me home. Does that make me a non-patriot? Of course not. I am willing to serve in the capacity for which I am best at doing. What I do have is a problem with people who sign on and take the government's bonuses and then when a crisis hits America they say "I dont wanna go". I'm not one of those people. So when you hear people say that they are concientious objectors... there may be a small few who have something to back their particular situation up with. M.
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Captain (I'm guessin'), I, and every other person in uniform, need you to be be where the you can do the most good for, us, the troops. In war, I'm not likely to need you to whiten the enamel on my teeth or do other cosmetic stuff. You were hired to fix broken Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Marines. Period. If we bleed out, while being evacuated to your safe secure rear area, before you can or will help us, why even bother? On a good day, you might have to replace/repair a missing filling, so that soldier can get back on line ASAP. More likely and on a bad day, you will be in the thick of it with the rest of the medical department, rendering aid to the fallen, so the chaplain doesn't have to! BTW, you may be kidding yourself: In this scenario, I suspect that we will have deal more with hit and run attacks on our flanks and rear areas than an honest frontal assault. These guys won't want to go head to head with our armor and infantry, they'd lose fast and they know it. The only safe area will be the perimeter we make for ourselves, and that is only as good as the troops defending it! I do not think that this about your not wanting to take another human being's life. But if you won't come save lives where we need you, we may run out of bodies able to repel those who [b]are[/b] coming, intent on taking human life. Staff Sergeant Dave Geisert, USMC VMGR 452 Quality Assurance email: geisertdc@mfr.usmc.mil
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:15:18 PM EDT
And another thing, why didn't "Conscientious Objector" go away with the draft? It was an [b][u]"All Volunteer"[/b] force, when I joined in '84! Dave
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:21:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:21:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 1:31:02 PM EDT by Hoople]
Originally Posted By kramrd: BUT, and this is a big BUT! I recently found out that IF a dentist was deployed, they assemble into "Forward Teams"... you dont actually go behind enemy lines but a dentist and 2 assistants go forward to set up a supporitve unit. In WAR dental augments medical. This is where I draw the line... I'm just a dentist and WILL NOT go to the front... that aint what I signed on to do! I signed on to fix teeth. That's my story. IF ordered to the front, I intend to refuse. I'll face UCMJ then go back to my cushy state job or go back into private practice once they send me home.
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Are you kidding me or what? Won't go to the front lines because it's too dangerous? You sir are a coward and a disgrace to every Medical/Dental/Nurse Corps officer now serving. I'm a Naval reservist attached to Naval Hospital Jacksonville,Det. 1 based out of Tampa,Fla. We have doctors,nurses and corpsmen chomping at the bit to get recalled to active duty to help out. And I mean both male and female. The reserve center had to send a message out to the unit to quit bugging them about recall oportunities. It is an honor to go to a forward BAS/hospital and give care to those wounded serving our country. Sounds corny to a POS like you I know,but that is truly how I feel. Who is it you think is going to help treat maxilofacial type injuries,or do you intend to do cosmetic dentistry for the generals and their wives during the war? You're a doctor, you know how crucial time is in treating serious wounds, and you still want the wounded to travel to a spot you consider safe enough? Let me let you in on a little secret: You signed on to do whatever the hell it is your country needs you to do, got it? They gave you a $30,000 bonus and you think you can pick and choose what you do??!!!! And if you think refusing orders in a time of war is UCMJ material you're in for a rude awakening. On behalf of all military medical personel,I'd like to let it be known he in no way represents the 99.9% of us ready to do whatever is necessary.[pissed]
Link Posted: 10/19/2001 1:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2001 1:30:14 PM EDT by SSgtUSMC]
Get him, Doc Hoople!! Semper Fi Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------- You know, Major Frank Burns was worried about his private practice too!
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