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Posted: 10/16/2001 11:36:15 AM EDT
Did a traffic stop on this vietnemase guy for speeding(69 in a 50). Go up and make contact with him after indtroducing myself and dept and telling him why he was stopped. I then asked him for his dl. He gives me his dl. So I walk back to my car and write out the citations. Like normal I check him by dl # and name and date of birth. Well, he comes back with a valid Texas CHL. So I go back up to his vehicle to issue the citations. Then I ask him if he is carrying his pistol since he didn't give me his CHL. He says that it's on his side. Keep in mind his english sucks. So I tell him that he could get his CHL suspended/revoked for not providing the CHL along with his dl to a peace officer when he's armed. So then I tell him I need to see his proof of insurance. He reaches around to his side and pulls out his pistol. Now I can understand the mistake. He doesn't speak english very well and proof of insurance does sound alot like smith and wesson. He pulls it out and starts swinging the muzzle around in my direction. I pull out my pistol with my right arm and take aim and at the same time I swing my flashlight in my left arm and hit his arm knocking the pistol out of his hand. So at this point I'm pissed because he is not listening or doesn't understand what I'm saying and he scared the crap out of me. At this point I'm debating whether or not I'm going to try and pursue getting his CHL revoked. So after I get calmed down and relaxed I decide I'm not going to start the paperwork to get it revoked or suspended. So he was let go with a good tongue lashing for being stupid and a speeding citation. This guy should have been required to take an english class before getting his CHL.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:41:15 AM EDT
Sounds like you handled a tough situation pretty well. Nobody got hurt. Congratulations for quick and clear thinking.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:42:44 AM EDT
Damn. My hat's off to you. How did he get a CCW if he can't even say "Smith and Wesson"? Bueller? Bueller? [pissed]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:43:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 11:38:17 AM EDT by WOIM]
I dont think "must be fluent in English" is part of the statute. Go figure. edited because I didnt spell SPEAK right
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:45:13 AM EDT
Wow! I've gotta say you not only handled that situation well, you even presented it well! unlike some of the other jackasses around here. But I'm not goin there. Congrats on a job well done
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:48:38 AM EDT
As a holder of a Texas CHl I think your actions were justified and I also think that you should do what it takes to get his CHL revoked. They were very clear in class that you have to present both your DL and CHL to any LEO that asks for ID. They were also clear about the consequences of failing to obey the law. He failed to obey the law and he should suffer the consequences.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:52:46 AM EDT
See, this would not have happened if he just would not have taken state permission to exercise his right to carry. Not an argument starter, just another opinion, from a different angle. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:54:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 11:58:55 AM EDT by hound]
Hound slips into Joe dirtbag mode again....you dirty copper you...you make me proud. Sir if I could I would buy you a beer. Leaving out the CHL crap. let us discuss this on a human level. You gave the guy a good lesson in not pointing a weapon at anything except a target and backed it up with the only language you have in common-pain. Approval also for the idea of an english requirement for gun-rights. If you can't read or understand the rights you shouldn't get them. truthfully thank you and hopefully we meet on the road...hound out. Edited because I have more to say...I think some officers would have dropped him right there and everyone would have said "good shot" you didn't and at clear risk to yourself-thanks On the gun-rights issue-shall not be infringed-mighty hard to justify my earlier comment. It goes back to immigration issues and perhaps this person should not be accorded the rights of a citizen.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 11:55:46 AM EDT
What does your driving record have to do with your CHL? This is precisely why I will not get a CHL. It is ridiculous that you can pull up someone's driver's license and then see that they have a CHL so you can then treat them like a suspect. Had you not ever known, you would have had no reason to ask, hence he would not have pulled the gun out in the first place. Do you see? Or are you so brainwashed into believing that the CHL system somehow protects you that you can't understand my point? The guy should not have done what he did, but the police paranoia about gun owners is just bizarre. I should not have to produce any kind of document that says I'm carrying a weapon nor have to jump through any hoops to do so. Crooks don't get CHLs do they? So all this guy's CHL did was to create a stressful and very dangerous situation for no reason.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:01:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Planerench: See, this would not have happened if he just would not have taken state permission to exercise his right to carry. Not an argument starter, just another opinion, from a different angle. Planerench out.
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Well, I guess in a way you are right. It would not have happened if he wasn't a CHL holder. But there were 3 problems in this situation: 1) his english sucks, 2) he failed to show me his CHL when required(which doesn't bother me that much) and the main thing 3) he takes insurance as let me see your pistol and be stupid with it and start bringing it my way.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:13:48 PM EDT
police paranoia.....oh man this hurts..joe dirtbag defending an officer...Trickshot I agree with all of you post about the absolute crap associated with the CHL. On the other hand I have TOLD officers to pat me down so that we could continue our "conversation" on a friendly basis. I have no problem with an officer checking me or requesting that I place it out of reach for the duration of our conservation. This good cop,see? Cops have to be scared because there are so many reasons to shoot one. (NOT ADVOCATING SHOOTING POLICE IN GENERAL) LA, WACO, DALLAS, HOLLYWOOD....everywhere has some cops that need to loose the blue and wear orange. BUT NOT ALL and this cop is a good one.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:16:50 PM EDT
you asked for it... the dude is insured by Smith & Wesson
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:16:50 PM EDT
In what part of our fair state do you work, jadams951?
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:21:50 PM EDT
Yeah those people who can't speak so good english shouldn't be able to defend themselves like us. How dare them think their lives are worth as much as ours.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:22:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: What does your driving record have to do with your CHL? This is precisely why I will not get a CHL. It is ridiculous that you can pull up someone's driver's license and then see that they have a CHL so you can then treat them like a suspect. Had you not ever known, you would have had no reason to ask, hence he would not have pulled the gun out in the first place. Do you see? Or are you so brainwashed into believing that the CHL system somehow protects you that you can't understand my point? The guy should not have done what he did, but the police paranoia about gun owners is just bizarre. I should not have to produce any kind of document that says I'm carrying a weapon nor have to jump through any hoops to do so. Crooks don't get CHLs do they? So all this guy's CHL did was to create a stressful and very dangerous situation for no reason.
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1. I'm not brainwashed at all and I do see your point. I respect every one's 2nd amendment rights. I have never disarmed other CHL holders on traffic stops. I simply tell them to make sure their pistol stays where it's at. 2. There is no paranoia on my part. It's real simple you pull out a gun, CHL holder or not, and start bringing the muzzle my way then any reasonable person is going to take the necessary measures to protect one's self. This is not an issue of me being a LEO jack booted thug who wants to stomp on the same rights that I love so much. If I wanted to be a jerk I could have started the process of getting his CHL suspended /revoked.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:23:39 PM EDT
Sounds like this guy was lucky he didn't meet St. Peter last night. Good job and good judgement! Glad to hear all went well for you last night. I would have stained my shorts during an incident like that.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:25:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: you asked for it... the dude is insured by Smith & Wesson
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LOL
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:25:55 PM EDT
I just knew it...we had 2 guys in my class for OK-ccw who didn't speak ONE WORD of english. They brought a translator to class to tell them what the instructor was saying, what the written test said and what the range commands were. I was worried about safety there in the range, much less situations like you just described. They should not have been issued even a license to drive the car they had up there. Or allowed a visa or green card. ENGLISH is the language, learn to speak it.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 12:20:21 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
You weren't being a JBT, you handled it well. The point is that the CHL laws (and his failure to obey them) [i]created[/i] this incident.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:29:13 PM EDT
Outstanding job! That he is still breathing and you are still on the job and not undergoing an investigation to see if it was a righteous shoot is a strong testament to your skill and judgement. That is one fortunate dude. Keep up the fine work and stay safe. [soapbox]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:30:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: In what part of our fair state do you work, jadams951?
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Houston
Originally Posted by Pangea: Yeah those people who can't speak so good english shouldn't be able to defend themselves like us. How dare them think their lives are worth as much as ours.
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I never said that. All I said is that his lack of english caused a communication problem which was a cause of the situation. My personal opinion is that if you're in this country learn to speak and understand english.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:31:20 PM EDT
Thank you Jadams951 for keeping a cool head and quick action. Only experience that keep you from shooting that guy. The guy obviously is an idiot for doing what he is doing, shouldn't point anything at an officer. May be that's his first time stopping by an officer and doesn't know how to act or understands english. May be he scared shitless too.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:34:38 PM EDT
Yeah those people who can't speak so good english shouldn't be able to defend themselves like us. How dare them think their lives are worth as much as ours. Ok yep your right--shall not be infringed--even though the supreme court just shot that in the head. BUT his rights ended when he pointed the muzzle toward jadams951...can we agree on that?
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:34:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jadams951:
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: In what part of our fair state do you work, jadams951?
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Houston
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Then the chances of me getting an opportunity to buy you a carbonated malt beverage are probably slim. Good job, anyway.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:38:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 12:33:19 PM EDT by ZOG]
Sounds like another lazy ass cop," I decide I'm not going to start the paperwork to get it revoked or suspended." Keep letting people slide who point a gun at a law enforcement official.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:38:41 PM EDT
Wait a minute.....you work in houston and you did this?????? Hell man you're a saint....I've been stopped by Houston police...if you don't show your hands you get a gun in the ear.... even more admiration...houston has lost way too many police officers on routines to ever be nice again.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:41:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea: Yeah those people who can't speak so good english shouldn't be able to defend themselves like us. How dare them think their lives are worth as much as ours.
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Those people who don't speak good english should not be here in the first place. Guy could've been a war hero that saved a thousand GIs in nam, he still needs to speak english if he comes here for anything other than a vacation. It's the little racist in everyone (esp. libs)that "feels sorry" for him and mexicans etc etc. "because they're not caucasian" that they look over his inability to communicate to help make themselves feel good and "diverse". If it were a german or a frenchman who couldn't speak english he'd be treated quickly with contempt since he's viewed as a "racial equal".
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:46:00 PM EDT
Jadams951, How do you pay a complement to someone who has had so many. All I can say is Thanks! JonJon
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:49:18 PM EDT
Hey jadams951, I think you are one cool cucumber for not plugging the guy. If the guy could not understand english and was stupid enough to pull out a weapon during a traffic stop, he should not have the CHL, or any weapon. I think you would be saving the idiots life by pursuing the revocation. Had he been in Dallas, he would be dead now. I think you handled the situation extremely well and the idiot was very very fortunate.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:54:41 PM EDT
I don't particularly care for Law Enforcement Officers. I think it takes a certian type of man to be one, and I usually don't particularly care for those type of people. That being said, you obviously aren't one of those "types". You handled yourself well, respected the mans rights, and responded with restraint in a very volitale situation. If the situation indeed happened like you said, you are one of the "good guys". [beer]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:56:04 PM EDT
If you had not toungue lashed him in the first place regarding him not showing you his permit then it never would have escalated. So just because he no speaky the language he has no right of self defense? What if this had been a deaf man. They have no right of self defense just because you could not communicate? He did his best to comply with a law which is probably written stupdly, with lots of fine doublespeak print. You should have noticed poor communication skills when you first stopped this person. A town as big as yours would have an interpretuer available if you requested one. You knew he had a permit so you knew he was probably armed. I say take a chill pill next time. If your jobs to scarey to do then find a new job.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 12:59:45 PM EDT
This type of situation happened with my father and myself. The cop asked if my father was armed and proceeded to grill him on why he felt he needed to be. My father is truthfully the coolest headed guy I know and by the time officer flattop 23 year old is finished my father was P-Oed. If not for the concealed carry permit it would have been "thank you have a nice day." (P.S. a bunch of recent hires at the p.d. were from out of state and a shootout ensued with some less cool characters a few months later only blocks from where this took place.) I support the cops but with reservations on this issue. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:03:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: He did his best to comply with a law which is probably written stupdly, with lots of fine doublespeak print.
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Nope. No doublespeak print. If you have an official interaction with a police officer and you are carrying concealed, you have to take the first opportunity to tell him so and to show him your CHL. If the officer asks for your license during a traffic stop, give him your CHL as well as the license. I've been stopped while carrying, and did everything reasonable to make the officer comfortable, and got treated very courteously and professionally. Even got cut a huss by a State Trooper, which is pretty rare.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:07:06 PM EDT
IMHO, At the very least I think you owe the rest of us to take not only his CHL but his weapon. You didn't say if you returned it or not. I just can't imagine someone less justifiable for CCW and I know alot of people that were denied by their local CLEO.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:22:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: you asked for it... the dude is insured by Smith & Wesson
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Topic aside, this is funny as hell.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:41:12 PM EDT
I may be alone here, but I say you should pursue getting his chl revoked. He clearly demonstrated his inability to safely conduct himself with his firearm. He drew his firearm on a peace officer, need I say more. He could have hurt himself or someone else with that mistake. He also disobeyed a condition of his chl, that is to hand his license when stopped by a police officer. He did this for three reasons, one he didn't understand that part of the class, it was not taught to him, or he did not remember. No matter how you slice it, they guy should not be out there with a gun.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:42:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pangea: Yeah those people who can't speak so good english shouldn't be able to defend themselves like us. How dare them think their lives are worth as much as ours.
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Pulling a gun and pointing it at a cop is universally stupid, regardless of which language you're fluent in. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:44:02 PM EDT
Officer, it's your fault, you beast. You should be fluent in every possible language even though your an American on American soil. And you hit the poor guy when he pointed his firearm in your direction, you should be ashamed of yourself! [:D]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:46:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 1:40:24 PM EDT by palmer]
Originally Posted By Darin_Marple: I may be alone here, but I say you should pursue getting his chl revoked. He clearly demonstrated his inability to safely conduct himself with his firearm. He drew his firearm on a peace officer, need I say more. He could have hurt himself or someone else with that mistake. He also disobeyed a condition of his chl, that is to hand his license when stopped by a police officer. He did this for three reasons, one he didn't understand that part of the class, it was not taught to him, or he did not remember. No matter how you slice it, they guy should not be out there with a gun.
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[size=4][blue]BINGO!![/blue][/size=4]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 1:54:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Darin_Marple: I may be alone here, but I say you should pursue getting his chl revoked. He clearly demonstrated his inability to safely conduct himself with his firearm. He drew his firearm on a peace officer, need I say more. He could have hurt himself or someone else with that mistake. He also disobeyed a condition of his chl, that is to hand his license when stopped by a police officer. He did this for three reasons, one he didn't understand that part of the class, it was not taught to him, or he did not remember. No matter how you slice it, they guy should not be out there with a gun.
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Yep, that sound about right to me. I don't care if he can't say anything other than "Where's the bathroom" and "Cheeseburger and fries." He failed one of the conditions of his CHL (not presenting his CHL with his DL at a traffic stop), and can have his CHL suspended. For being stupid enough to pull it out and point the business end at a cop he's lucky he's not dead and certainly doesn't deserve to carry it. Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves, but they do not deserve the right to disobey basic gun safety. All the people bitching about the fact that he should be able to defend himself, which in theory I agree with, have probably never had some numbnuts point a loaded gun at you. It's not pleasant. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 2:04:56 PM EDT
Sometimes, I think I need to move to Texas. Level-headed cops like jadams951, and apparently, anyone can get a CHL. Wow! That's nothing like around here. Good job jadams951. You had a weapon pointed at you, and you were able to diffuse the situation without firing a shot. That's the true mark of a peace officer.z
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 2:21:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: you asked for it... the dude is insured by Smith & Wesson
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Hahahahahaha! That is the funniest thing I have heard all day. Thanks for the laugh. I think jadams951 did a good job and I commend him for not trying to get the guys CHL revoked. From the way it sounds he really didn't mean any harm and I don't think people should be prosecuted for harmless mistakes. I too disagree with the part about disclosing your CHL status at a simple traffic stop but then I can turn around and thank God I don't live in California. Vermont style would be the ultimate, but I'm happy with what we have even though I believe I shouldn't have to be licensed to carry a sidearm. Until we can get something better this will have to do. Michael
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 2:39:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: you asked for it... the dude is insured by Smith & Wesson
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[:D] ROFLMAO [:D] It would even be funnier if he had one of them stickers on his car that say's "insured by S&W" Guess his english wasn't so bad after all [:D] LOL good job jadams951. Me personally I don't think I could've been that calm. That's why I am only thinking about becoming a cop and not one.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 2:53:40 PM EDT
Man I hope your a liar. If you really are a LEO, and really just had that experience then you DID NOT do your job!!! If a CHL, regardless of their race behaves in that manner they SHOULD lose their carry permit for at least 6 months. That gives them time to remember the power the permit holds. You just let a dumbass back out on the streets. Shame on you.
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 3:14:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 3:17:49 PM EDT
jadams951, I think you handled the situation admirably. In the last 5 years I have been stopped twice for speeding. Both times I conducted myself as I was taught in CHL class by displaying my DL and CHL at the same time. The officers ask if I had my weapon and I responded yes. They ask where and I told them, without reaching for it. They were polite and professional. I really do not object to this procedure at all. I think LEO's have a right to know who they are confronting. Remember, most LEO's are supporters of the 2nd Amendment To LEO's....Thanks for a job well done! Jim Hall
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 3:26:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2001 3:40:39 PM EDT by brouhaha]
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 3:37:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 3:57:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: This is precisely why I will not get a CHL. It is ridiculous that you can pull up someone's driver's license and then see that they have a CHL so you can then treat them like a suspect. \
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Seems to me, every time I've ever been pulled over, I have been a suspect. Other than that eh men brother trickshot...
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 4:04:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/16/2001 4:05:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Well done under difficult circumstances. BTW, was this individual a legal citizen, or here on a visa? Not that it matters w/respect to your situation, just curious. Again, well done, sir.
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He would have had to have been a citizen, if I remember correctly from my CHL class. God Bless Texas
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