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Posted: 2/28/2001 7:44:28 PM EDT
Can I get your input on a Super 90 vs. a 11-87 for patrol work. I would like any input from those who have owned or used both. I have a 870 Police Magnum and a 11-87 Police Magnum, and I could probably keep the 870 if I get a Super 90. Can you give me the features you like best on either.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 8:45:44 PM EDT
I had (just sold it) a Benelli M1, have a Benelli M3 and Beretta 1201 FP3. I have never owned an 11-87. I did look a little into both guns before I bought the M1. The M1 is recoil operated--no gas mechanism to clog up, VERY fast cycling rate, ability to swap out the round in the chamber (mag cut off)--these are all pro's. The con's--stiff recoil (kicks more than a gas or pump gun), adding extra mass (lights, side saddle, etc.) may reduce reliability with light loads. The 11-87 does have a gas system (lighter recoil, extra mass doesn't affect it). It does have the gas system that can clog. One other gun to look at is the M3--it can go pump instead of semi- for light loads, etc. The 870 is an excellent gun. Unless you need a semi, it will do everything the others can do and more.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 9:00:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2001 9:20:39 PM EDT by HANGFIRE]
MIsuper90: proven hands down fastest cycling shotgun in the world. you can get 8 rounds down range before the 1st. expended shell hits the ground; saw that on video tape. fast and easy to strip and clean straight or pistol grip stock excellent ghost ring sights; night sights aftermarket forearm with tac light available screw in chokes or you can purchase aftermarket tactical chokes A lot of shooters bought the Remmington because of the 10 rnd. mag. capacity which gave them an edge over the benneli by two rounds but I was told that the rule change in three gun to a max. of 8 would negate that; I am not aware if that would also hold in tactical shotgun competition.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 9:09:52 PM EDT
AFFAR is correct on recoil. 3in.mag. are punishing especialy slugs. However this can be overcome by having the forcing cone lenghtend and will improve the shot pattern; I am told.
Link Posted: 2/28/2001 9:13:59 PM EDT
super 90,,,recoil can be dampened but the new recoil reducer they are selling. Have no complaints with the super90 and I have owned all three, noe have a super90 with two bbls and mag extensions for all foeld and combat use.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 1:16:00 AM EDT
The 11/87 Police I have has a rusty chamber area. The M1S90 which was not cleaned for a month or two has no rust. I shot them both in the rain before and the 11/87 has slight rust on the rear rifle sight.(I did dry them) [b]Get the Benelli.[/b] It's lighter and it points faster. The pistol grip provides a stable grip. Just make sure you don't use light loads in the intertia operated Benelli.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 8:40:17 AM EDT
I like the magazine cut-off feature in addition to the extra shell capicty, seven in a post-ban(5 in the magazine tube, 1 under the bolt, and one in the chamber) vs. six in my 11-87 if I use a pistol grip stock. I am most attracted to the lighter weight. I don't practice with light loads. I shoot 2 3/4" and 3" 00 and slugs several dozen at a time. I am not really interested in the M3. I do warrant serve only, I do not respond to calls. I do not, and never will with this agency, carry less than lethal rounds. I don't need the convertability. If the action doesn't cycle on a M1 or 11-87, I could work the action with the charging handle faster than I could change the opperating mode and pump the M3.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 8:58:12 AM EDT
I have been shooting an M1 in various forms of competetion for about 3 yrs. All the positive comments from other posters are true. The recoil is greater then a gas operated gun but is not bad and certainly manageable. Its reputation is worse then its bite. Regarding light loads, I have found the gun very reliable with a 3 dram x 1 1/8 oz "trap" load. I believe the problem comes in when the shot charge drops to 1 oz. The gun is marginally reliable with Federal Tactical Slugs which are 1 oz. I recently developed a slug load using the Lyman "Sabot" 525 gr. slug. The slugs actually weighed 475 g. as opposed to 438 for a 1 oz. They were 100% at a power factor less then the Fed Tactical. Regarding mag tubes, I believe the 8 round limit is for Limited Class only.
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 9:31:23 AM EDT
My friend has a super 90 and yet prefers the 11-87. Just because a gun cycles fast does that make it superior to others?
Link Posted: 3/1/2001 10:22:14 AM EDT
I own and shoot both. Both have their own pros and cons. The Benelli is lighter, faster, and probably more reliable if you don't clean your firearms as much as you should (!). The Benelli, being lighter and inertia/recoil operated, recoils more. If you are recoil sensitive, get the Remington. Keep it clean and check your oring/ gas system, and all will be well. If you want to load all sorts of crap on your gun, the Remington again may be the better choice, as the Benelli has some reliability concerns when it is loaded up with sidesaddle mount, lights, lasers, kitchen sinks, etc. My Benelli tactical is outstanding with slugs and buckshot, and I have yet to make it hiccup. One of my 1187s has shot several thousand rounds, with only replacing the oring. It only jammed when I avoided cleaning it for extended periods of time. I like em both.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 12:17:20 AM EDT
I'VE HAD TWO OF EACH, THE 11-87 GETS MY VOTE, ONLY THING WATCH THOSE GAS RINGS.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 3:25:52 AM EDT
IMO, I have hunted with rem 1100's and seen many jams. I own a M1 and it has never jammed. *But* we are talking to diffent types of ammo and the 1100 was not well kept, ie it is my brothers! Just info. I have heard the 11-87 is a lot better than the 1100. I know the M1 works, I even use trap loads in the M1 and they cycle great.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 3:26:58 AM EDT
I would find out if the M4 is really going to come out in a civilian version and when before making a purchase.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 9:07:55 AM EDT
My friend's m1 jammed so bad that he had to take the gun apart. The 11-87 only jams if you don't follow directions on the barrel "FOR HEAVY LOADS ONLY". It isn't a skeet gun.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 1:51:13 PM EDT
Super 90... Super 90... Super 90... I own 2... (Montefeltro (a sporting version) for me, and an M1 for my wife) The idea of a semi-shotty thrilled me, especially after my wife did a double-tap during a class with the Benelli. Man, her eyes were filled with lust... Woohoo!!! Anyway, I started to do research, counting what the owner of that M1(who was the instructor as well) mentioned about Benelli vs. Remington. OK, what I found was that the sentiments that have been echoed so far seem to be about the case. The O-ring and added cleaning on the Remington, and the recoil on the Benelli. Note that the cleaning on a Benelli is simple. I can fire 500 rounds, and all I have to do is bore-rope the barrel 2 times, and wipe... let me make that clear... *wipe* the bolt off. No elbow grease, no fancy tear down, none of it. Additionally, I was just reading a magazine a week or two ago, which compared shotguns for usage in Uraguay (like we are all headed down there next week)... Anyway, three ranges told to pick three guns. Remington was mentioned once, Beretta twice, but the thing that made me feel really good... Benelli was chosen by all 3 of them, and was the only one by all three.
Imbrog|io - My friend's m1 jammed so bad that he had to take the gun apart.
View Quote
No offense Imbroglio, but I doubt it. I've had mine apart, and it's a simple design with attention to details. I could be wrong, but I couldn't see any way to jam that baby up that hard, short of a breakage. Even still, I've heard of mystery problems with every other gun out there as well.
Link Posted: 3/29/2001 2:07:52 PM EDT
I was there when it happened. He tried for a good 10 minutes to try to clear it at the range but couldn't and had to take the gun home to take it apart. It was like a double feed or something.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 6:32:29 AM EDT
Super 90 is the only way to go!
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 9:44:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 10:20:37 AM EDT by IrvineGunNut]
Respectfully, can you please define what you mean by a double-feed? I'll note three potential problems up front... 1. If you are referring to two shells in the chamber (and barrel), then your friend loaded a 20 gauge shell along with his 12. It's a dangerous, but not unheard of problem. This is not a result of a problem with the gun, but with the shooter. 2. If you are referring to two (more like 1 1/2 shells) loading onto the carrier from the mag tube, I've experienced that with an 870, and a Mossberg. It's 3. If you are referring to a shell on the loading gate (aka carrier), and one in the chamber, then you are mistaken. Benelli is the only shotgun in the world that will allow firing while there is a shell on top of the loading gate. Only way to resolve that problem is a double-barrel (not suitable for TACO's entry scenario) NOTE on #3 above: For those of you who are more daring, and are headed for an entry situation, the instructor that trained my wife and I also gave a unique demonstration. Here's a fun little trick to get one more shot into your gun (not legal for hunting in restricted areas, so don't even think of doing it!) 1. Load the tube all the way. 2. Pull the bolt back just far enough to drop (or push) another round onto the carrier. It will resist a bit for the first few times you try it. 3. With the bolt still held back, push one more into the chamber. Experiment with this a little, it's been a few months since I last demonstrated this for someone, but it works nicely.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 10:11:50 AM EDT
My god man. Can't you just accept the fact that his benelli jammed? My friend isn't an idiot and anal retentive when it comes to gun maintence. He could not clear the damn thing in the field and had to fix it at home where he had tools available. I wasn't shooting it so I don't know all of intimate details.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 10:20:03 AM EDT
Chill out Imbroglio... I'm only defending the gun. All guns have failures at times... even your beloved 11-87... Look into the O-ring failure... it causes jams as well.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 10:56:21 AM EDT
I have now recieved my pre-ban H&K marked Super 90. It is a pistol grip, ghost ring sight model with a four round extension and a side saddle. It came with a Surefire, but I just took it off and bought a standard fore-end. I plan on using a M3 light on it. I will try to take both out to shoot side by side today.
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