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Posted: 10/11/2001 3:39:39 PM EDT
What is the "overall" opinion of the M16A2 and M4 held by the Israeli army ? Ive read that the only Israeli military group to use AK's are the seals. Im just wondering what they like/dislike about them (especially the M16 gas system). Also, its funny that the British SAS seem to favor the M4 as well. Am I wrong saying that the US subsidizes much of the cost of or just gives away M16's to the Israeli's ?
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 3:59:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2001 3:55:03 PM EDT by SNorman]
Israel uses the M16 because they like it, check out this link (interesting site) [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/car15.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 4:10:26 PM EDT
Brit SAS also regularly choose to use M16 series weapons. these are NOT subsidized weapons, so that argument fails to explain its use. SAS prolly sees more action than most of our spec forces. it is a great rifle and has been refined over 30+ years. scott out
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 4:14:36 PM EDT
Yeah, why would the Israeli's use a military version of the favorite rifle of everybody here. I am sure that the only reason someone would use the M16 is because someone gave it to them. Maybe someone doesn't like the Israeli's having this good a weapon.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 4:27:14 PM EDT
They have to spend their US aid on US produced goods, so it is cheaper for them to us M-16's than Galil's. Plus the production costs are probably lower because they can do add-ons to US Military orders.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:09:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottjimenez: Brit SAS also regularly choose to use M16 series weapons. these are NOT subsidized weapons, so that argument fails to explain its use. SAS prolly sees more action than most of our spec forces. it is a great rifle and has been refined over 30+ years. scott out
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Good point !
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:16:31 PM EDT
The Israelis like the M16s because it lighter that the Gailil.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:30:02 PM EDT
I also bet it is cheaper for the SAS to buy M-16's than their own unproven design.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:33:39 PM EDT
Especially when comparing it to the M4, the Galil can weight almost 2x as much. If properly maintained, the modern AR can be just about as reliable as an AK. The only Israeli soldiers that I've seen using the Galil sit in a tank or guard a stationary check point. Almost all of the patrol soldiers were carrying the M-16A1.
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:33:43 PM EDT
I think various militaries around the world use the M16 because it's the finest combat rifle ever produced. Simple as that!
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 5:44:00 PM EDT
BAM!! hand this man a Ceeee-garrrr!! the Canucks have a company called Diemaco that makes M16 series (C7 in CAN) at full price for their military and also the Dutch. i can't remember if there are any other countries. the Brit SA80 is a POS that they have contracted HK to sort out. lessee, that means that SAS can choose a reliable weapon they want to operate with.....uh, sure, they're looking for a blue light special, right. and why would they get a discount?? they can afford a few cases of rifles, and they are NOT gonna be buying USED. scott out
Originally Posted By ipschoser1: I think various militaries around the world use the M16 because it's the finest combat rifle ever produced. Simple as that!
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Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:29:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Eastwood123: What is the "overall" opinion of the M16A2 and M4 held by the Israeli army ? Ive read that the only Israeli military group to use AK's are the seals. Im just wondering what they like/dislike about them (especially the M16 gas system).
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Light weight and accuracy. The Galil is used by units that don't have to carry them very far.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:33:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SS109: I also bet it is cheaper for the SAS to buy M-16's than their own unproven design.
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There are plenty of other designs out there they could use besides the M16. If the Galil is superior, they could use it. They could use the HK33/HK53 or the G36. They could use a Valmet or FAMAS... or even an AUG if they so desired. They could use a Sig 550 or Korean K2... but alas, they choose the M16 above all others. The Israelis choose the M16 because in their opinion it's the best military rifle out there. They can use AK's or their own Galil's if they wanted to. They even have the new Tavor... but the M16 is the most [b]desired[/b] weapon by Israeli special forces and even their regular Army troops.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:13:41 PM EDT
The Isralies carry their rifles EVERYWHERE on or off duty. They see a lot of "pop up" terrorist attacks. It is far easier to get a AR into action, even with the chamber empty, than to get a AK thanks to the bolt hold open and the thumb saftey.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:21:09 PM EDT
Andy McNabb, in his first book mentioned the reason the SAS uses the M16 series of weapons was because of the quick mag change feature and the ability to mount a grenade launcher under it, hence the M4. He also mentioned the SA80 was a fine weapon for large untis, but for the small unit tactics the SAS used, the M16/M4 was a better weapon. Since the Gulf War, much has been done to improve the SA80, and it has been posted on this forum that with the help of HK, the SA80 has come around to performing as it should. The story of the SA80 is not too different than that of the M16. How many of us have shot an SA80?
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:49:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2001 12:45:04 PM EDT by DriftPunch]
Other than cost (both $ and manufacturing opportunity cost), flexability, and weight are the primary concerns. Cost is primary, then weight, then flexability in my opinion. The Galil is a magnificent piece of hardware! Don't lump it in with Com Block AKs! Here's my Model 392 (16 inch barreled ARM): [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=48016864&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 12:53:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2001 12:49:31 PM EDT by hondajohn]
Here is a link to a great isreali Special Forces web page it has tons of great pics and information www.isayeret.com there is somepics of things they take into to lebenon for plausable deniability and in Bravo two Zero Andy McNabbs first book they used the M-16 because it was better in the desert than the L85 they used full size A1 and m203's not the A'2's
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