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Posted: 10/10/2001 5:27:54 AM EST
Here's a commentary by Joseph Farah, Editor of worldnetdaily.com, on the recent statements by the President and others regarding a Palestinian state on the West Bank: [size=4][b]The Sellout of Israel[/b][/size=4] Immediately following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States, conventional wisdom suggested the dramatic turn of events would bring America closer together with its long-time Mideast ally Israel. As usual, conventional wisdom was dead wrong. In fact, very clearly now, you can detect Washington increasingly distancing itself from Jerusalem. There are even some within the U.S. State Department who are beginning to deny there is any Arab terrorism directed at Israel – at least not terrorism as defined by our so-called "war on terrorism." Here's how State Department spokesman Richard Boucher explained that those attacking Israel aren't really terrorists at all – despite the suicide attacks, the bombings and the shootings of civilians: "Essentially, there are, on some planes, two different things. One is that there are violent people trying to destroy societies, ours, many others in the world. The world recognizes that and we are going to stop those people. On the other hand, there are issues and violence and political issues that need to be resolved in the Middle East, Israelis and Palestinians. … They are clearly issues that are different." [b]In other words, attacks on the United States are [u]terrorism[/u]. Attacks on Israel are [u]attempts to "resolve political issues.[/u]" [b]But it gets worse.[/b] To see how it 'gets worse' read the remainder of the article at:[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24825[/url] Eric The(JudaismIsAnEndangeredReligionWouldWouldTh­ink)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:39:34 AM EST
Eric, I know you're a Christian, but why do you care about israel so much? A hypothetical for you... If we could end this whole terrorism thing in the US by leaving israel to fight for itself, would you go for that? How many Americans need to die to protect a little strip of land for non-citizens? -CK
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:42:30 AM EST
Eric, do you really think the USA will let down a major player and freind? I'll bet you $20 right now by the time this is all over, Israel will still be standing tall. Wanna bet? [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:46:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 5:42:50 AM EST by ChuckT]
It is a fact that we are going to need the support of some Arab governments in this war on terrorism to keep it from turning into a widespread "jihad." However, there is no way we should abandon our support of Israel as they need as much protection from terrorists as we do. In one of my (of 2) poly sci classes in college, we studied the Palestinian terrorist attack during the 1972 Olympics in Munich. Although there are numerous splinter groups, they all have the same goal: to wrest control of Israel from the Jews. They only differ in their methods and varying degrees of "extreme." If this were done, I have no doubt that they (Palestinian extremists) would work to drive Americans out of the middle east. Guess what oil prices would be then?
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:52:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By cck: Eric, I know you're a Christian, but why do you care about israel so much? A hypothetical for you... If we could end this whole terrorism thing in the US by leaving israel to fight for itself, would you go for that? How many Americans need to die to protect a little strip of land for non-citizens? -CK
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These are IMO good questions. Not to answer for Eric, but I do have a fair amount of knowledge of why many Christians favor Israel. In short, it is a (IMO) misunderstanding of Scripture that the (natural born)Jews are the chosen people of God.. Basically, the teaching goes that Gentiles need to be saved and be obedient to God in order to gain God's favor, but jews need only be Jewish to gain God's favor. They don't put it that way, but boiled down, that is what they are saying. In fact, they will probably deny that that is what they believe. But I don't see any other way to interpret it. Here's teh kicker - [b]The Jew today mocks and rejects the Christ that my Christian brethren have received as Saviour.The consider Him a bastard child, and an imposter. [/b] I could disprove this notion of natural Israel being God's chosen people, but it is beyond the scope of this forum. If anyone wants to discuss further, just e-mail me.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:53:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By cck: Eric, I know you're a Christian, but why do you care about israel so much? A hypothetical for you... If we could end this whole terrorism thing in the US by leaving israel to fight for itself, would you go for that? How many Americans need to die to protect a little strip of land for non-citizens? -CK
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A terrorist group just kills 6000-7000 US citizens and destroys 20B-30B in property. Next they tell you to jump up and down, until they say stop, or teh attack again. [b]Do you really think jumping up and down will do any good?[/b] The point being they want to lay blame on Israel for the recent bombings. If Israel were no longer in existance today, the attacks would continue. They want everyone to follow Islam. [b]Are you willing to follow Islam for world peace?[/b]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:55:25 AM EST
The World Net Daily is the e-equivalent of a National Enquirer. I am sorry but I do not care for that publication. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 5:58:41 AM EST
If we weaken our support of Israel, the arabs will cheer. They would rightfully claim a victory. Osama will be seen as an even bigger hero. It will appear that the attacks weakened our resolve, and forced us to do exactly what the terrorists want. It would not end terrorism. It would embolden them, and make us look weak. In a vacuum, maybe we should change our policies towards Israel. Right now, however, it would be the stupidest thing we could do.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:00:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chaingun: The point being they want to lay blame on Israel for the recent bombings. If Israel were no longer in existance today, the attacks would continue. They want everyone to follow Islam.
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I'll agree. BUT.... If the USA were no longer funding the Israeli war machine and supplying military technology to be used in killing Arabs, THEN we would KNOW that the attacks against the US were purely irrational. And THEN we could fight this "war" the way it needs to be fought. I am also quite sure that Usama and the extremeists Arabs would lose ALOT of their popular support, once the USA stopped providing Israel the means to kill Arabs.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:00:51 AM EST
IMO Joseph Farah is waaaay off if he thinks the U.S. would indeed "sell out" Israel. You can tell me "I told you so" if it ever happens. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:01:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 6:06:14 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: In a vacuum, maybe we should change our policies towards Israel. Right now, however, it would be the stupidest thing we could do.
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I can live with that. I STILL think IMMENSE advantages could be gained by stopping our support of Israel RIGHT now, thereby not siding with teh Arabs enemies, but I'm willing to wait a little while for that to happen as well. Whichever course of action provides the USA the greatest strategic advantage in this "war." But we MUST make sure we review our Israel policy in light of what is best for the USA. As long as it happens in the next ten years. But it MUST happen.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:04:11 AM EST
Wow. [:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:11:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: In short, it is a (IMO) misunderstanding of Scripture that the (natural born)Jews are the chosen people of God.. Basically, the teaching goes that Gentiles need to be saved and be obedient to God in order to gain God's favor, but jews need only be Jewish to gain God's favor. They don't put it that way, but boiled down, that is what they are saying. In fact, they will probably deny that that is what they believe. But I don't see any other way to interpret it.
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Grandman- [b]You show a lack of understanding for the Jewish religion, and as a result your own religion.[/b] The original description of "choosen people" is where the muslem term Jihad is derived. As I understand it, the Jewish people are "choosen" by God to take that extra step in being a better person. They are required by God to always do better than everyone else. You should next complain that not every Jew follows this law, but tehn lives a bitch isn't it?
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:21:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Grandman- [b]You show a lack of understanding for the Jewish religion, and as a result your own religion.[/b] As I understand it, the Jewish people are "choosen" by God to take that extra step in being a better person. They are required by God to always do better than everyone else. ?
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What I know is that the Jewsih religion is outside of Scripture. What I KNOW is that God DOES NOT want "better people." "Better people" take pride in their own accomplishments. God wants humble people, submitted to Him, that look to Jesus Christ for salvation, a people whose righteousness comes from God, NOT from being "better people." In fact, this whole notion of becoming "better people" is what caused God to castigate the Jewsih nation, because they sought their own righteousness, NOT God's. The natural born Jews that have NOT received salvation thru Jesus Christ are NOT the "chosen people of god" They are not Jews, they are NOT Israel, according to the Scriptural defintion. The point being, to base a political policy on a fallacious understanding of Scripture is bad. Bad, bad, bad.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:26:30 AM EST
Post from cck -
I know you're a Christian, but why do you care about israel so much?
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Forgetting about our Judeo-Christian roots for just a moment, it's simply the right thing to do! For better, or worse, Israel represents a bastion of everything that's good about Western Civilization in the Middle East. The enemies of Israel are the enemies of the United States. If we abandon Israel [u]now[/u], without so much as a whimper, just what else will our new Islamic Overlords ask us to abandon next? Hmmmm? Freedom of speech, dress, religion, arms? If United States foreign policy is to be dictated to us by foreigners, I would at least like those foreigners to come here and run for public office the good old fashioned American Way! Is that too much to ask? As a fundamentalist Christian I support Israel, but as a good old fashioned American, believer in one 'Lost Cause' and hopeful to avoid another, I support Israel because it's the right thing to do! So when Yes-sir Arafat finally realizes his long held dream of a Palestine stretching from the 'River to the Sea', I can only hope that the screams and cries of the wives and children of our former allies, are not heard over the 'laugh tracks' on your favorite television sit-coms. It would so [u]spoil[/u] the moment! Before THAT happens, I'll be on the West Bank, carrying ammo for my brothers (I am a 'Cpl. Upham' kind of guy at my age) when the End comes!
If we could end this whole terrorism thing in the US by leaving israel to fight for itself, would you go for that?
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No. I'm not a coward and I can safely say that the front lines of this war on terrorism are not in the Middle East, the front lines are on the East River, the Hudson River, the Potomac River, for now. Maybe coming to a neighborhood near you even as we debate! But don't get me wrong. I do not believe that if the United States abandons Israel, that Israel will fall! They seem to have a pretty good handle on survival. They have to! Now, my question, if we could end [u]all[/u] criminal acts once and for all, would you favor giving up your right to keep and bear arms? Hmmm? Eric The(IThoughtNot!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:31:19 AM EST
g-man I agree. Major, Chaingun I agree as well. I don't want us to look weak. I don't think we should back down now. But my point was that If the positions were reversed and instead of egypt (in the past) jordan, syria; what if Canada and Mexico were attacking us with the same ferver, do you honestly believe that they (israel) would do squat for us? -CK
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:34:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By cck: But my point was that If the positions were reversed and instead of egypt (in the past) jordan, syria; what if Canada and Mexico were attacking us with the same ferver, do you honestly believe that they (israel) would do squat for us? -CK
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No. Israel has already adopted the policy that WE should adopt - what is good for US comes first. And second. What comes third is debatable.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:36:00 AM EST
Post from PopAsmoke -
Eric, do you really think the USA will let down a major player and freind? I'll bet you $20 right now by the time this is all over, Israel will still be standing tall. Wanna bet?
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Nope, my Mama only raised one fool and that's my brother Clyde![:D] I think that the State Department (which has never, ever, been a friend of Israel) is simply trying to 'make appearances' for their present-day Arab coalition members! And for the same reason, George W. 'lets slip' the little piece about how he's [u]always[/u] favored a Palestinian state! (Hmmm? Wonder where George W. was when Hillary caused such a flap over mentioning the very same thing? He [u]should[/u]have come to her defense at the time, [b]if[/b] he really believed that!) Eric The('EasyMoney')Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:41:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: The enemies of Israel are the enemies of the United States.
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We have to be careful with this "The enemy of my enemy is my friend business." We provided training, funding and weapons to a lot of people and groups who hate us now, and want to see us and our way of life burned off the face of the earth.
If we abandon Israel now, without so much as a whimper, just what else will our new Islamic Overlords ask us to abandon next?
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This I absolutely agree with. It's awfully bad timing to start this business now, and it just encourages the savages to make more demands.
Hmmmm? Freedom of speech, dress, religion, arms?
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Freedom of religion? I don't know about that. I think they'd shut you down in a heartbeat if you started converting Jews to Christianity in Haifa. You knew I had to chime in here to keep you on your toes, Eric. [b]America First[/b] Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. [img]http://www.inetnow.net/~kudzukid/enlemblem.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:45:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: Christ paid the price for all of man's sins and gave his life for all mankind. The ones who accept His sacrifice are the church and they will be saved. The Jews who accept Christ are part of the body and will be saved. The Jews that reject him will not.
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Soooo... The Jews that do not accept Christ are STILL God's chosen people, but God is gonna send them to hell just like He does the unsaved "goyim"? Countless Jews have died without Christ, deliberately rejecting Christ. Are they in hell? Can I become a Jew and avoid this whole Christianity thing??
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:47:17 AM EST
Post from garandman -
If the USA were no longer funding the Israeli war machine and supplying military technology to be used in killing Arabs, THEN we would KNOW that the attacks against the US were purely irrational.
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These attacks are not 'purely irrational' now???
And THEN we could fight this "war" the way it needs to be fought.
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Which is? With our Muslim brothers foursquare behind us? [u]That[/u] war would end pretty quickly, since the Arabs would have folks on both sides!
I am also quite sure that Usama and the extremeists Arabs would lose ALOT of their popular support, once the USA stopped providing Israel the means to kill Arabs.
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But you don't know that for a fact. You are, quite willing to place Israel up on the altar to sacrifice it for a nice warm fuzzy feeling of security! [b]Israel's demise would be a signal that terrorism does indeed work against the Great Satan![/b] Now that's surely not a lesson we need to be teaching! Eric The([red]HeThatEndurethTilTheEndShallBeSaved[/red])Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:47:58 AM EST
Infidels! Listen to them squabble amongst themselves......
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:48:39 AM EST
Eric, as a Jew, a soldier (now activated) and a Police officer I support your words. You always seem to point me in the right direction. I believe Isreal would survive without our support. Let me say this, I am American first!! So saying that, this is my feelings: We are not hated entirely for our support of Israel. We are hated becuase we are free. We would still be hated by these same countries if Israel did not exist. Garandman, I believe you have a real fear of the ZOG concept. Every post you write is anti Jew and anti Israeli. Why such hard fealings? Are Most Jews rich?? NO! Do Jews avoid the military???NO! Do most Jews support Isreal over their own county, the US?? No!! I am sure you have a different answer. I dont fault you for it, but I do believe your anger is misguided. I am sure if all of us met face to face the only aguement would be who's AR shoots better, not what our religious prefereces are. (or how the jews are trying to take over the world). Lets all pray (in our own way) for everyone effected by those cowards!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:50:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: [b]The Jew today mocks and rejects the Christ that my Christian brethren have received as Saviour.The consider Him a bastard child, and an imposter. [/b]
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WOW! I guess I finally have a label, I'm a JEW!
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:55:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By huey: Garandman, I believe you have a real fear of the ZOG concept. Every post you write is anti Jew and anti Israeli. Why such hard fealings? !
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To me, the ULTIMATE form of anti-Semitism is to mislead the Jew into thinking he is "God's chosen people" which in the Jewish mindset would confirm for him that he doesn't need Jesus Christ as Saviour. In essence, spreading the false teaching that the Jew is the chosen people of God, SIMPLY becasue of his genetics, will likely send him to hell. Fixing a broken bone ALWAYS requires a painful resetting. What I preach re: Israel is painful at the first, but ultimately provides the healing Balm of Gilead. I want ALL Jews, in fact ALL men, in heaven, where by the grace of God, I will be. What could be MORE pro-Jewish than that???
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:55:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By huey: Do Jews avoid the military???NO!
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That's true. I think they all join the Army, Navy or Air Force, though... .....because in ten years of service in the Marines, I met 6. [:D] (I'm not kidding)
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 6:58:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 6:53:43 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By erickm:
Originally Posted By garandman: [b]The Jew today mocks and rejects the Christ that my Christian brethren have received as Saviour.The consider Him a bastard child, and an imposter. [/b]
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WOW! I guess I finally have a label, I'm a JEW!
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Well, I guess then that since you also chew on bones, you must be a dog. [}:D] Hey, baby - YOUR logic, NOT mine.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:00:41 AM EST
Eric, No I would not give up my second amendment. Because guns cause no harm on their own. Speaking of Religious freedom, aren't you the least bit scared by the notion of The United States of America backing a group of people because that's what it says in the BIBLE? I have a feeling that you're the type of person that dispises the Nation Endowment for The Arts (as do I) how is this any different? Instead of funding art that you find offensive, your asking Americans to fund a Religion. And I find that [b] very [/b] offensive. As to a judeo christian background, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were all deists. But that's beside the point. -CK
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:03:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By cck: Speaking of Religious freedom, aren't you the least bit scared by the notion of The United States of America backing a group of people because that's what it says in the BIBLE? ...your asking Americans to fund a Religion. And I find that [b] very [/b] offensive. -CK
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OUCH. But accurate. Worse, its using the Bible to say that we should support a religion that contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Its wacky.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:05:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By cck: But my point was that If the positions were reversed and instead of egypt (in the past) jordan, syria; what if Canada and Mexico were attacking us with the same ferver, do you honestly believe that they (israel) would do squat for us? -CK
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No. Israel has already adopted the policy that WE should adopt - what is good for US comes first. And second. What comes third is debatable.
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Get a grip people! Israel has helped us in the past, is helping us now, and will help us in the future. What is public is often of little importance. The real help is behind the scenes and most will never know or appreciate the sacrifices made by many to help our country. As gun owners, we all know the media and the government puts out whatever slop they feel will further their goals at the time. Why are some so quick to believe the garbage that is put out about Israel, by the media, our government, or the Israeli government? If you want to make an intelligent comment about the situation in Israel or the Arab world, go there and experience it for yourself. The truth will both amaze and disgust you.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:10:20 AM EST
Post from Jarhead_22 -
We have to be careful with this "The enemy of my enemy is my friend business." We provided training, funding and weapons to a lot of people and groups who hate us now, and want to see us and our way of life burned off the face of the earth.
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True to a point. We have to do what is right at the time and under the conditions that exist at that particular time. Funding Bin Laden and the Afghan [i]Mujahadin[/i] was the [u]correct[/u] thing to do during our Cold War with the Soviet Union. That we have come now to regret it is simply wrong! We didn't mind Ho Chi Minh helping us fight the Japanese in French Indochina during WWII. The fact that he felt betrayed by the US and sought independence from France later on does not alter the correctness of out earlier support!
Freedom of religion? I don't know about that. I think they'd shut you down in a heartbeat if you started converting Jews to Christianity in Haifa.
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You are quite right with that, but they would not behead you as they would in other, shall we say, less progressive nations.
You knew I had to chime in here to keep you on your toes, Eric.
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I count on it, Jarhead_22, you know that![:D] Eric The(OnMyTippyToes)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:14:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 7:14:40 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: True to a point. We have to do what is right at the time and under the conditions that exist at that particular time. Funding Bin Laden and the Afghan [i]Mujahadin[/i] was the [u]correct[/u] thing to do during our Cold War with the Soviet Union. That we have come now to regret it is simply wrong! Eric The(OnMyTippyToes)Hun[>]:)]
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I don't get this. We created bin Laden. The USA did. THEN we turned from supporting him to supporting his enemy, the Israelis. So, what are you saying here??? Are we forever condemned to shifting alliances that may create teh very person who will kill 5,000 of our citizens???
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:21:21 AM EST
This I know. Israel has stood up for us and called us their ally when it is a lot more dangerous for them. They are in the middle of it, if they jumped on the anti-U.S. bandwagon and gave peace talks with their neighbors to try and resolve their situation with compromises they could live as sheep too. But they don't. Israel has an attitude that the U.S. could learn from. They aren't full of PC sickness like the U.S. has become. Israel isn't stupid, if they were, they would've been wiped off the face of the earth LONG ago... they are grossly outnumbered. They know how to fight, and how to war. It would be interesting to see how Israel would've fared in Vietnam. They take care of their own and aren't afraid to say "We are gona kick your ***." Why should we be afraid to support Israel? Are we, or are we not a Superpower. It's time to start acting like one! It's not like everyone is jumping to say they are our allies either. We're already unpopular. Canada and the Aussies and Israel we can count on. The rest waver. At least: You may not like 'em, but you've got to admire 'em.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:21:40 AM EST
To All Who Say Abandon Isreal: Open Your Bible to Exodus And Read It. This will explain the Jews claim on Isreal. Beyond that the Isrealites are gods chosen children. They were guarunteed the "Land of Milk & Honey" and they got it in the form of Isreal. As others have said "Do you think plants grow in the desert because the weather's good ?" Very Simply if Isreal were to fall, the book of Revelations would likely play out. And, that is the last thing we want to see. The fall of Isreal will in short bring about Armogeddon. Lets not forget the town of Armageddon is in Isreal.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:23:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 7:21:46 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By ELEFTARIA: G-man... God chose the Jews to be His people. He gave them the choice to be of the chosen ones or not. Salvation came to the Jews first, and they rejected Him. Some Jews accepted Christ and are part of the church. Jews, or anyone for that matter, that reject Christ do so of their own will, and will suffer the consequences. As it is written, there will come a time when God will reveal Himself to those who have rejected them and they will know that He was the one whom they pierced. Israel has been blinded to the Gospel of Christ, but God loves them and wants them to turn to His Son. So IF they turn to Christ, they will be saved. If they don't accept Him they will be condemned. They, like all mankind decide their eternal destiny.
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OK, I agree with most of this. But a question.... God's promise to the Jew is largely about the Land of Israel. But God tells those who have trusted in Jesus Christ to not lay up treasures on earth, but in heaven. So, when a Jew becomes a Chrsitian, is he renouncing his earthly inheritance as a Jew?? Read Galatians 3 and let's discuss via e-mail. OK, 2 questions... And if all your post above be true, as I believe it is, what value is there for the Jew in being God's chosen?? Especially since he MUST renounce his claims to the earthly inheritance in receiving and being obedient to Christ??
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:26:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By huey: Let me say this, I am American first!! So saying that, this is my feelings: We are not hated entirely for our support of Israel. We are hated becuase we are free. We would still be hated by these same countries if Israel did not exist.
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Bang! Damned well said!
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:30:06 AM EST
This absolute bullshit and filled with elsitist propaganda. Instead of attacking Israel which has "Always" provided support, friendship, and intelligence to the USA, we chastise her in the name of religion. What's wrong with this picture? Isn't this what the Islamic fundamentalists do? We must stand united as Americans and freedom loving people. And remember, that freedom includes the right to believe in whatever God you want. But somehow, if a God does exist, I think it, or he or she is the same one. It is we the people that distort and disseminate concepts of what this God says and wants. When all is said and done, our lives will end. If there is a God, I think that it will be actions we have taken in our lives that will be judged. Were we tolerant, good, loving, compassionate? Or were we evil, revengeful, dishonest or just downright bad. Or, does life just end into vast nothingness and all this was for nothing. In the meantime, we are Americans, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Budhists, etc. We are fighting an enemy that is another Hitler, Mousellini, etc. An enemy that is bent on ultimately world domination and rule under the name of fundamentalist Islam. An enemy that has proven itself by it's actions. Actions that kill women, children and others who are innocent. Actions that speak for themselves. May God bless us all. If this thing escalates we will certainly need his/her blessing. Sleep tight America and hug your AR.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:34:25 AM EST
Some of the people around here, I won't mention names, but you know who you are, talk about religion and "G-d said this and G-d said that" Like you were freakin' there when Moses came down off of Mt. Zion... For you missionary Christians... stop telling people who will be saved and who will not... if you were so secure in your beliefs, you'd be content to keep them to yourself. You people remind me of the moonies or some kind of cult... damn... growing up with people like you was the one thing that I hated about living in the beautiful South...
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:41:07 AM EST
Major_Murphy, 6 people in your career? That is not many, but then again, the religion is a minority itself. Grant it, more American jews should serve. However, we are out there, maybe not in large numbers. Maybe I am a minority of a minority. Garandman, The Jewish religion has a different belief system, to you this "rejecting Christ". We do believe in God, He may not take the same form as your God, but we beleive. Who is to say who is right or wrong. That's where the term Faith comes in to play. Let it be, that is what freadom of religion is all about. Religion is the number one cause of war through the ages, becasue of people pushing there religion on others.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:49:09 AM EST
Oh by the way Major. One of my best friends who is jewish (not to many jews in Atlanta) was a grunt and then security force in the Marines. And I am former Army and now USAF security forces.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:50:33 AM EST
YEAH! and besides... Jews were here first... nee-ner-nee-ner-nee-ner
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:51:38 AM EST
I'm a Jew and went to VMI Marine Corps. option... I also went to Marine Corps OCS...
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:52:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By huey: Garandman, The Jewish religion has a different belief system, to you this "rejecting Christ". We do believe in God, He may not take the same form as your God, but we beleive. Who is to say who is right or wrong. That's where the term Faith comes in to play. Let it be, that is what freadom of religion is all about. Religion is the number one cause of war through the ages, becasue of people pushing there religion on others.
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Huey - Thru this thread, I have made available to ALL, including Jews, what my understanding of Scriptural truth is, discharging me of responsibility before God to do so. Whether you beleive or not is ENTIRELY your choice. I'll not force my beliefs on you, mainly becasue God wants those who believe of their own free will, NOT due to force. Oh, and those religious wars you refer to - other than the Jewish invasion of the Promised Land wresting it away from the inhabitants, NONE of the wars started over religion had ANYTHING to do with God, the Bible, or TRUE "religion." Mostly, they were Catholic or Muslim in origin, and have as much relation to Biblical Christianity as Judaism does.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:55:13 AM EST
HMMM, I must be living in a different world??!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:58:14 AM EST
Semper fi, gentlemen.
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 7:59:38 AM EST
Question, I thought Christ was Jewish before he died and his followers branded him Christian? Just a question?
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 8:04:03 AM EST
DEFENSOR FORTIS!!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 8:06:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By AutoBilly: Question, I thought Christ was Jewish before he died and his followers branded him Christian? Just a question?
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Actually, not a bad question at all. Since the blood line (and thereby nationality) comes thru the father, and Jesus was born of a virgin, we have a whole new ballgame here. No question as a child, Jesus was raised as a jewish boy with jewish customs. That said, He is the Son of God, and would bear no nationality. BTW - jesus followers didn't brand him a "Christian" The non-believing gentiles branded Jesus followers "Christians." It was a derogatory term, meaning "little Christs" and was used to mock first century believers. Needless to say, the term stuck. And for true Christians, being associated with Christ is NOT a bad thing. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 8:09:24 AM EST
Christ was a Christian? Boy, talk about being self-absorbed... [;)]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 8:10:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2001 9:19:05 AM EST by mojo]
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 8:16:25 AM EST
Post from cck -
No I would not give up my second amendment. Because guns cause no harm on their own.
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I was hoping that you would say 'because of the principle involved' which is exactly what I'm saying about abandoning Israel.
Speaking of Religious freedom, aren't you the least bit scared by the notion of The United States of America backing a group of people because that's what it says in the BIBLE?
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I seriously doubt [u]anyone[/u] in government is saying that we're supporting Israel because it's the right thing to do according to the Torah! Or Psalms, for that matter. We do a lot of things in the United States that are not only not supported by the Bible, but that in fact go against what the Bible teaches. We live in a representative Republic, not a theocracy! I can live with that!
I have a feeling that you're the type of person that dispises the Nation Endowment for The Arts (as do I) how is this any different? Instead of funding art that you find offensive, your asking Americans to fund a Religion. And I find that very offensive.
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I don't think we're funding anybody's religion in Israel, do you have any proof we are? And insofar as funding religion in any manner, how do you feel about the tax-exempt status given to churches, mosques and synagogues in America, is that o.k.?
As to a judeo christian background, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were all deists. But that's beside the point.
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You know, I've long asked the question about how many deists were involved in the founding of our country. I even posted that question on this board and got no answers. So I did a search of the Deists websites (don't laugh, there are a few) and found that they do in fact claim Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson. They did claim Benjamin Franklin, but he kinda' bugged out of deisim late in his life. Nowhere did I see James Madison mentioned. I know he was born an Anglican and studied in an Anglican school. Later in life he came under the influence of a Baptist minister in Washington and attended church there throughout his presidency. But were these the [u]only[/u] Founding Fathers who were deists? Then it would appear that the overwhelming number of Founding Fathers were, in fact, devout Christians! (As Madison considered himself to be!) Eric The(DeismMyAss!)Hun[>]:)]
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