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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 10/9/2001 8:13:26 PM EDT
I was just pondering...why aren't there any "+P" loads for the .40S&W? We have +P 9mm, .38, .45, etc., but no damn +P .40's. Is it because of SAAMI specs, or might there someday be a "+P" .40S&W load? I know that this probably belongs in the "ammo" section, but throw me a fricken bone on a sleepless Tuesday night (actually Wed morning) at midnight.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:31:24 PM EDT
?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:35:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:38:06 PM EDT
If you wanted .40 +P, you should have bought a 10mm. [:D] God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:38:57 PM EDT
I preface this by stating that I am by no means an expert in this field (hey, that's never stopped me before [;)]); but my understanding is that the pressures generated by the .40 S&W are so high to begin with, that producing a "+P" load would be extremely dangerous.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:41:48 PM EDT
You really mean if I wanted a bulky piece of shit at just over.40 balistics, then I would have bought a 10mm- no thanks. It's a five pound turd in a ten pound bag. Plus, the ammo's expensive and not always available. Anyway...you can keep your 10mm and use it for a paperweight when ammo gets even more expensive for it.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:42:54 PM EDT
Nimrod is correct- there's no room for +P. Even if someone could manage it, they'd be blowing guns up like crazy. GodBlessTexas has the answer- if you feel the need for a .40 +P, go to a full-power 10mm.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:43:46 PM EDT
Nimrod is correct- there's no room for +P. Even if someone could manage it, they'd be blowing guns up like crazy. GodBlessTexas has the answer- if you feel the need for a .40 +P, go to a full-power 10mm.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 8:54:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 9:49:40 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: If you wanted .40 +P, you should have bought a 10mm. [:D] God Bless Texas
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Too true. The .40S&W is a +P round as it is (edited because SAAMI specs only allow for an equal pressure to the 9mm, so, my statement is not quite accurate. See the post below for more information on the .40. Hey, I was wrong for once...) Or, a -10MM, if you will. Care must be taken to not recycle the top round ad infinitum due to compressing the round and ending up with a KB, which might have been the case in my experience with the Federal Hydra-Shok 165 "FBI" medium load in my Beretta Centurion. It has been stated that the above mentioned load had caused problems with too high pressures anyway; my repeated recycling (maybe 3-4 times) may have shortened the round enough to cause the extreme pressure that: blew the hook off of the extractor; fire formed the remains of the case to the chamber(no shit)so it looked like the chamber was blown out(it wasn't); and popped the trigger bar out of the frame! I knew immediately there was a problem, so I kept the firearm pointed downrange and visually checked to see if my eyes were still functional and my hand was attached to my arm with a pistol in it... The gunsmith was amazed. He said, "Wow, that's a strong gun" and "where's the case head?" I told him we never found the case head and he said the gun is fine and that's the cartridge case not a blown bbl. Beretta said the trigger bar is supposed to blow out, as it did, when too much pressure is present. Everything went fine. The gun is good. A further point is that Federal Hydra-Shok 180-gr. standard loads also exhibited a slight bulge near the rim after firing, in both my Centurion and the full size 96. I stopped at 5 rounds and take it that my Berettas don't care for Federal ammo. I don't use it anymore. Check your cases to see what's happening, no matter what brand of gun/ammo or caliber you prefer.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:03:06 PM EDT
I just purchased a Berretta Elite today .40S&W, I chose it over the 9mm and the .357 Magnum. I purchased 180Grain practice rounds for it. I think the .40S&W will serve me well. The ammo was extremely inexpensive, I also bought some 155gr JDHP Speer Gold Dot for home defense. I am sure that this will be also very acceptable. In the current Issue of Guns&Weapons you can find the FBI's testing data for both Wound Value's from 9mm to .45ACP exempting the .44Magnum. The .40S&W did very well beating even the .357 Magnum using various rounds of various manufacture. But they seemed to land closely together. The .40S&W was Using 180 Grain Hydro Shock(federal) versus a 158 grain Federal JHP for the .357 Magnum. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:03:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 9:06:08 PM EDT by FishKepr]
Whild technically not really +P, the loads from Cor-Bon are stoked to the absolute seam-bustin' maximum that the .40 S&W will safely go within SAAMI specifications. They average about 100-150 FPS faster than the loads from most other manufacturers who load slightly lower than true maximum for liability reasons. Fired cases show very flat primers and I changed my 4506 .45 ACP to an extra heavy spring because the Cor-bon loads showed firing pin 'skids' with the standard one. My HK USP40C and Beretta 92F showed no signs of excessive stress. Furthermore, the Cor-bon loads that I chronographed really do perform to, or surpass, the advertised specifications, a pleasant surprise in this day and age.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:07:32 PM EDT
becouse you would be pulling metal out of your forehead with whats left of your hands.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 9:06:55 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By dissipator556: You really mean if I wanted a bulky piece of shit at just over.40 balistics, then I would have bought a 10mm- no thanks. It's a five pound turd in a ten pound bag.
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You did notice the smiley, right? But to make my point, you're referring to the balistic information of the 10mm FBI load, which is not the same as the original 10mm load. The FBI found the full-load 10mm to be hard to handle and lowered the pressure. The reason the .40S&W cartridge and 10mm FBI load are almost identical balistically is because the .40S&W was designed to be achieve the same performance from a shorter casing. 10mm and .40S&W bullets are the same diameter. Full powered 10mm rounds deliver more kinetic energy than a .357mag, and .45ACP.
Plus, the ammo's expensive and not always available. Anyway...you can keep your 10mm and use it for a paperweight when ammo gets even more expensive for it.
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Actually, all my pistols are chambered for .40S&W. I swear, some people have no sense of humor around here. If you want faster loads, you can check out the Aguilla IQ loads which are 135gr (I believe) at 1500fps, but you're not going to find a 155+gr bullet travelling at supersonic speeds out of a .40S&W pistol. The pressures would cause a kaboom. well, maybe Cor-Bon would work, but I'd be hesitant to shoot it myself, especially out of a Glock. Too many stories of .40's kabooming when people load the pressure too high, though I don't know how many of them I truly believe. Still, I don't want to be a test case. God Bless Texas [edited to add the part about Cor-Bons]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:12:31 PM EDT
I see that they are fasing out the Elite and going to the Elite II, with a Brigadier Slide. Well Mine already has a Brigadier Slide. So tell me, have I made a good purchase?? Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:18:46 PM EDT
Yes, I've read that the SAAMI specs for a .40 are the same as for a 9mm. The 357Sig though is designed for higher pressure like the 10mm is.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:30:46 PM EDT
Yeah, a .357Sig is designed to be a high pressure load. I keep putting more and more serious thought into picking one up. Ammo is kind of hard to find locally, but it seems like an impressive round. Maybe when I have the money to buy guns again. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:48:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: I see that they are fasing out the Elite and going to the Elite II, with a Brigadier Slide. Well Mine already has a Brigadier Slide. So tell me, have I made a good purchase?? Benjamin
View Quote
Try asking here: [url]http://www.beretta-forum.com/[/url] And an interesting article on the 180-gr. .40: [url]http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:55:37 PM EDT
Thank You very much Bushmaster , I do appreciate this information very much. Thank you thank you thank you. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 9:57:15 PM EDT
O-Tay!
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