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Posted: 10/9/2001 10:07:56 AM EDT
This makes at least 3 incidents including Waco where an UPS idiot "accidently" broke open a package and called the ATF because of the contents. [url]www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,53%257E174368,00.html[/url] 4 rocket-launcher tubes confiscated By The Denver Post Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - Military investigators confiscated four inoperable rocket-launcher tubes from an arms dealer in Aurora last week and destroyed them, putting an end to a bizarre tale. Dan King, 46, an unlicensed arms broker who works as a middleman selling weapons over the Internet, said he has sold more than a dozen military rocket-launcher tubes this year. King said he buys them for an average of $70 each from a gun dealer in Arizona and others at the Tanner Gun Show in Denver. He said he then resells them for an average of $200 each on eBay, one of the online auction sites on the Internet. King recently sold an LAW (light anti-tank weapon) tube and an AT-4 tube, a larger version of the same weapon, to a man in California, shipping them by UPS, he said. King accused the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of intercepting the packages, opening them and confiscating them. He has not been charged. But ATF officials in Denver say the California buyer received the inoperative tubes, was dissatisfied with the purchase and told UPS to send them back to King. When the UPS driver showed up at King's house on the 1200 block of Dayton Street, King wouldn't sign for them but told the driver to throw them over the back fence and his dogs would guard them, the ATF said. The driver accidentally broke open one of the packages and notified police, who notified the ATF, officials said. The ATF notified Special Agent Brian Phillips of the criminal division of the military police at Fort Carson. With King's consent, the Army searched his house Oct. 2 and found two more rocket-launcher tubes, which were confiscated. All four tubes were destroyed. At least one of the rocket-launcher tubes had been stolen from Fort Leonard Wood Army Base in Missouri, according to ATF officials. ATF records show that King purchased the stolen tube from a gun dealer in St. Louis. Because the tubes cannot be fired and cannot be reloaded to be fired, they are not classified as weapons or destructive devices, ATF officials said. The military is treating the tubes as stolen government property.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:21:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:25:50 AM EDT
raf, there are several dealers and gunsmiths who stopped using UPS because of many packages being opened and even items missing. One was even told by UPS that they have a right to open and inspect any and all packages. UPS even changed their policy to overnight only for guns because their people were stealing them.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:32:25 AM EDT
Just a couple of days ago, I picked up a package at a UPS center (a real UPS, not "boxes-R-us") They have a new policy of the clerk looking into every package before he accepts it. Packages must be open when presented to him for shipment. He may have no idea what he's looking for, but he's gotta look. I don't know if this is a nationwide policy or just my local UPS.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:37:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:41:36 AM EDT
3500 Cases or 3500 Rounds ? 3500 Cases times 1000 Rounds a case is 3.5 Million rounds. I'd be keeping an eye open too if that much ammo. moved through my area.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:43:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 10:54:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 10:54:20 AM EDT by Waldo]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:46:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 11:44:00 AM EDT by cc48510]
Oops, I'm not a reloader so I figured you meant cases as in a case of ammunition. A Case of .223 being 50-20 Round boxes. BTW, 3500 empty cases shouldn't be a reason for alarm. Shoot, 3500 loaded rounds shouldn't be either.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:58:28 AM EDT
More evidence that the gun grab is in full swing. Did you really think that it would be widely publicized? Gun owners are going to go down one by one. The people doing this see no difference between American patriots and terrorists. I stopped ordering ammo from Ammoman because the people who this apt. complex are suspicious of all the heavy boxes that rattle. I wouldn't want to have a million cops here waiting for me some afternoon because some idiot turned me in as a potential "terrorist." We live in a Snitch Culture now. Neighbors turn each other in all the time. I live in an ultra-liberal town where guns and gun owners are at the top of their "must destroy at all costs" list. Not much fun. The brainwashing continues...
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 1:58:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 1:53:00 PM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: ...an UPS idiot "accidently" broke open a package and called the ATF because of the contents...
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I had a computer monitor 'confiscated' by a UPS worker when he/she 'accidentally' broke open the package. Must have been the Gateway cow-pattern box that tipped them off to the evil BATF non-registered monitor...
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:05:40 PM EDT
You had a computer monitor confiscated? I heard that those tubes in side it can implode, or a kid could touch one and become a crispy critter! Seriously, you should find a good lawyer and sue, there is nothing illegal about a computer monitor, they comply with a FCC regulations and the Energy Department and EPA have no beef with them. What's with the ATF confiscating his stuff? Shouldn't stolen Gov property be investigated by the FBI, or am I losing it. It is inert and inopperable, then it is like stealing cardboard tubes from the mess hall. Ice
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:23:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 2:18:59 PM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By Ice: Seriously, you should find a good lawyer and sue, there is nothing illegal about a computer monitor, they comply with a FCC regulations and the Energy Department and EPA have no beef with them. Ice
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Sorry, I forgot to add the [;)] after my post. I was insinuating that a lot of stuff gets 'confiscated' (stolen) by UPS employees that believe that everyday is Christmas. The part that was scariest, is the way UPS handled it. After being insulted, hung up on, etc. by customer service, I asked to speak to a manager. The manager denied that the monitor was ever picked up by USP from Gateway, citing the non-existent tracking number, which convieniently disappeared from their tracking system. Funny, 10 minutes ago, the tracking number said "picked up at x-location at x-time and day, location scan at USP hub in x-city, on x-day," and now it says "invalid tracking number"??? I'm not saying all UPS employees are thieves, but the fact that the higher-ups are so accustomed to this behavior, that they have developed a plan of denial and removing evidence, has prompted me to ship my guns by FedEx from now on.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:23:39 PM EDT
Is that legal for them to do? Are those tubes illegal? I didn't think they were, what gives?
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:26:22 PM EDT
Oh, I forgot to mention that they would not refund my shipping charge on the package that they "never took possession of."
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:27:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: I stopped ordering ammo from Ammoman because the people who this apt. complex are suspicious of all the heavy boxes that rattle. I wouldn't want to have a million cops here waiting for me some afternoon because some idiot turned me in as a potential "terrorist."
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So instead of fighting you cede the battle to the snitches? Let them snitch, and if a cop shows up at your door, tell them you order ammo online because it's cheaper. If they want to come in, say no. Our rights are being taken away, yes. But only if we let them. People are snitches, but they will be more so if we act secretive. Go about your business normally and let the idiots deal with their own fears.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:30:31 PM EDT
I say that you get a good lawyer, got the receipt? Got to start boycotting UPS and using FED-EX. Smeghead, Those tubes are illegal under that statute of Not Receiving Stolen Property, like you buying a car sterio from those kids on the corner and then having the cops take it because it was ripped out of the car next to them. I still don't get why the ATF is latching on to this case cause they aren't firearms or explosives, its like buying those spent mortar shells. Ice
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:34:58 PM EDT
So this "Dealer" had a massive distribution center of 4 shot tubes? Better keep his day job...[:E]
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:43:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ice: I say that you get a good lawyer, got the receipt? Got to start boycotting UPS and using FED-EX. Ice
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I don't use UPS anymore for big dollar items. As far as the monitor, it was a couple years ago (but it stuck in my mind) and Gateway quickly sent me a new monitor and ate the cost of the original.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 2:53:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2001 2:49:05 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By trickshot: I stopped ordering ammo from Ammoman because the people who this apt. complex are suspicious of all the heavy boxes that rattle. I wouldn't want to have a million cops here waiting for me some afternoon because some idiot turned me in as a potential "terrorist." We live in a Snitch Culture now. Neighbors turn each other in all the time. I live in an ultra-liberal town where guns and gun owners are at the top of their "must destroy at all costs" list. Not much fun. The brainwashing continues...
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OT:I know what you mean. If you think about it, what is the difference between an anonomus secret informer of WWII Nazis, Stalin's secret police, the KGB of the former Soviet Union, and someone calling 1 800 INFORM of today? We have trained several generations of people saying that it is okay. Pretty scary stuff, plus some LE folks are not too picky about breaking down your front on flimsy tip. "Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty."
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 5:52:27 PM EDT
Norm G., I shipped a half a box of out of spec .308 back to Winchester yesterday via UPS and the lady behind the counter just looked it over to make sure it was secure and that nothing was leaking out. I did have the ORMD label from Winchester on it and taped shut. I tried to ship it via FedEx, which is only 1/4 mile from work, but they would not ship "dangerous materials" unless you have an account with them. Also said that it is a felony to ship it without disclosing that it is a "dangerous material". Their loss.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 6:48:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G: Just a couple of days ago, I picked up a package at a UPS center (a real UPS, not "boxes-R-us") They have a new policy of the clerk looking into every package before he accepts it. Packages must be open when presented to him for shipment. He may have no idea what he's looking for, but he's gotta look. I don't know if this is a nationwide policy or just my local UPS.
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It's policy...the UPS depot that I pick up my packages at (cause we are never home during the day)O has many signs stating to bring packages in "open", so they can be checked for "proper padding, etc".
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:24:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: BTW, isn't private carriage of the mails a stated goal of the soi-disant Libertarian Party?
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Yes. We also advocate the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, unlike either the Republicrats or the Democans.
Link Posted: 10/9/2001 11:38:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: BTW, isn't private carriage of the mails a stated goal of the soi-disant Libertarian Party?
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Privitization is a goal. ALONG WITH original intent enforcement of the 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights, ALONG with letting you do whatever you want AS LONG as you do not harm anyone unwillingly in the process. There would be no ATF around to harass gun owners because there would be no need of such an unconstitutional agency. I know you are trying to imply that the LP endorses opening private parcels which they don't. Seems more like the GOP that wants "tools for law enforcement" in the "war on terrorism".
Link Posted: 10/10/2001 12:42:46 AM EDT
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