[b]VPC: US Gun Industry Arms AlQaeda with .50s[/b]

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - [b]VPC: US Gun Industry Arms AlQaeda with .50s[/b]

Posted: 10/8/2001 6:34:46 PM EDT

http://www.vpc.org/press/0110snip.htm

this is the biggest crock of poo, I have ever heard. I doubt its true since they do not cite their source, and even if it was true, thats like saying boeing is responsible for the deaths of 6,000 or more deaths cause they sold the airplanes that flew into the wtc.

Posted: 10/8/2001 6:39:51 PM EDT

[#1]

It will probably turn out to be knock-offs of Barretts or the comparable Russian or Chinese rifle of about this caliber. Garbled news, presented favorably to the VPC. How Stalinist of them.

Boy, talk about grasping at straws- don't the Brady Bunch realise they are history?

Posted: 10/8/2001 6:40:39 PM EDT

[#2]

I just read this as well. No sources, no information as to how/when/who sold the firearms. No information as to how they got the information. Nothing.

Just "The gun industry sold...."

Then of course the propoganda concerning how powerful they are, how they'll "possibly" be deployed etc.

These manipulative lieing mouth-pieces of worn out rhetoric need to be flushed.

Posted: 10/8/2001 6:54:49 PM EDT

[#3]

Why dont they give up and go out of business already....

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:06:26 PM EDT

[#4]

VPC must have Joe Goebbles, Jr. on staff as their media liason...

-Troy

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:15:37 PM EDT

[#5]

Consider this...

Afganistan, as well as any other country remotely near the former USSR is crawling with 12.7mm guns. (12.7mm is comparible in size & power with the .50BMG)

Why the hell would they want a .50 BMG that they couldn't get ammo for when they have tons of 12.7mm guns and ammo?

This is simply a way to get their names back in the papers, deflect some of the new self-defense beleivers, and eventually ban the .50BMG. Nothing more.

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:30:07 PM EDT

[#6]

I can't believe idiots at VPC actually published bull$hit like this. Those folks over there must be smoking something else other than tobacco. Unsubstantiated lies, but something in the back of mine, says "what else is new?" But you know what? I wonder when the mainstream news media is going to pickup this crap, and report it as news?

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:49:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I can't believe idiots at VPC actually published bull$hit like this. Those folks over there must be smoking something else other than tobacco. Unsubstantiated lies, but something in the back of mine, says "what else is new?" But you know what? I wonder when the mainstream news media is going to pickup this crap, and report it as news?

View Quote

Looks like the mainstream has already picked up on this. [rolleyes]

Wall Street Research Net
[url]http://www.wsrn.com/apps/news/art.xpl?id=3027691&f=NEWS[/url]

New York Times
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/07/national/07GUNS.html[/url]

usnewswire
[url]http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1007-101.html[/url]

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:53:48 PM EDT

[#8]

That's funny, I haven't heard any complaints about the US tool industry providing box cutters to the terrorists.

Posted: 10/8/2001 7:58:14 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
...Why the hell would they want a .50 BMG that they couldn't get ammo for when they have tons of 12.7mm guns and ammo?

View Quote

They wouldn't. I've, hell, we've all seen years and years of film footage from Afghanistan. Anyone recall Western rifles - other than ancient Enfields???

It's all Soviet. The story is complete BS.

And another thing, any F*CKING politician use this crisis to further disarm Americans is going to find a second front driving right up his ARSE.

Posted: 10/8/2001 10:52:30 PM EDT

[#10]

Not for anything, but this story could have some substance to it.

Now, before you hang me from the highest tree, hold on. I think that the fact that Afghanis were provided .50 cals by the USA is correct, and well documented. The problem here is that I think the "study", or whatever the hell this group with an obvious political agenda wants to call it, uses data in a really fu
Barretts WERE sent to Afghanistan, as everyone knows, during the Soviet occupation of that country, by the CIA. This is documented in a lot of places, but even check Barretts website, or any internet site about the development of the M82A1A, it's true. The reason for this is that the Mujahadeen pride themselves on long-distance shooting, and wanted a weapon they could use in that role. The Barrett served this purpose admirably, so much so, that the US Military started integrating barretts into sniper programs in larger numbers.

Now, this was what 1990? 1988? Certainly not now, or five months ago, like this article would have you believe. Also, the article implies that:
1) The guns may have been bought HERE and RECENTLY.

2) The guns were sold directly to Afghanistan - Not the case. The CIA bought them and transferred them. As far as Barrett knew it was selling them to a US Agency!

3) The guns are HERE in the US, ready to start blowing away chem factories, making planes into "bombs on the ground". - When is the last time you smuggled a barrett into the US? Wouldn't it be easier to get a citizen of the US that sympathizes with the terrorists to buy one ALREADY here?

MISINFORMATION ABOUNDS...........

What's really repugnant is that some people would use the current paranoia to further their own liberal agenda. Yellow Fu

SAMHAIN44

Posted: 10/9/2001 12:11:24 AM EDT

[#11]

I considered that possibility, Samhain44. The U.S. may have sold Barretts to the Afghans. The U.S. supplied the Mujahedeen with Stinger missiles so it's not a stretch...

but... there's a big difference between the CIA supplying the enemy of our enemy during the cold war and "the gun industry" selling for pure profit.

AFAIK, American weapons manufacturers have to go through the State Department for any weapons sales overseas. VPC makes it look like they went behind the government's back, which would be against federal law. A smart investigative reporter should be asking if "the gun industry" is going to be brought up on charges. I doubt if anyone will follow up on this and show it as being the bullshit it is.

Calling it yellow journalism is an understatement. More like agenda-driven propaganda.

Posted: 10/9/2001 5:36:55 AM EDT

[#12]

All the information about the barrets I have found was that it was developed under a contract bid for supply to the Muj however you spell it for engaging Hind Gunships on the airfields at long range. they were especially suited for the role the APIT ammo would be able to ignite the fule in the russian Hinds and destroy them. the rapid fire of the 82A1 would mean once you were zeroed you could engage 11 targets before reloading and moving to a recce area.

Posted: 10/9/2001 7:48:16 AM EDT

[#13]

.50BMG is 12.7x99mm

Also I thought the Russians use a 14.5mm round for their heavy machineguns and long range rifles? Wouldn't this be what the Afghans have if they have anything in that size?

Posted: 10/9/2001 8:14:17 AM EDT

[#14]

I'll be sending my letters out to these (and other) publications this evening. I trust others are doing the same.

Posted: 10/9/2001 8:48:44 AM EDT

[#15]

That asshole is nothing but a professional fearmonger.

Check this out

[url]http://www.deeswatch.com/[/url]

Posted: 10/9/2001 9:02:12 AM EDT

[#16]

Well it took some time, and I called Naomi at VPC and asked for her sources. She explained that the source for the "press release", (I asked about her "online article") is VPC's own "Voting From the Rooftops" by Tom Diaz. Diaz on page 26 of his "article" says, "Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda has acquired at least 25 Barrett 50 caliber rifles." He states his source as: (see page 85 - source #93): Transcript of trial, United States of America v. Usuama bin Laden, et al., United States District Court, Southern District of New York, February 14, 2001, pp. 556-667; "Al-Qaed's Business Empire," Jane's Intelligence Review (August 1, 2001)

Anyone have access to the original's on these? If you read Tom Diaz's bio, it's clear that he is preaching to his own anti-gun choir. I'd like to see the real transcript of this trial and Jane's Article. Just because David Koresh quotes from the Bible, doesn't mean "HIS" interpretations are accurate.

If you really want to get pissed off at this 100+ page of propaganda, download and read it. It's 4MB.

Posted: 10/9/2001 9:06:07 AM EDT

[#17]

(Continued from above)

Expect VPC to demand banning the sale of night vision optics and "range-finders" because snipers use them. (See page 28) Next will be binoculars and floppy camo hats....

Posted: 10/9/2001 9:34:51 AM EDT

[#18]

(Follow Up) According to the VPC article, during the trial Essam al Ridi stated he shipped 25 50-caliber rifles to Al Qaeda.

While searching for "Essam al Ridi", I found the following:

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01040558.htm

http://members.aol.com/bardonia/part19.htm

Apparently Essam al Ridi did have connections to bin Laden including buying a decommissioned plane T-39 aircraft and handing it over to bin Laden in Khartoum (see last link above.)

Posted: 10/9/2001 9:48:19 AM EDT

[#19]

Hmmmm....

Seeing as VPC can find information on these bozos better than the entire US intelligence community, maybe they will pass on the information?

They won't, because the entire story is bullshit. Like someone above said, "The gun industry sold..." followed by nothing but propaganda. Not a single fact to support the allegation.

They must [b]really[/b] be desperate.

Posted: 10/9/2001 10:02:48 AM EDT

[#20]

I hope that VPC notifies the Office of Homeland Defense with this information, seeing that they now have a friend running that agency.

Posted: 10/9/2001 10:15:47 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Consider this...

Afganistan, as well as any other country remotely near the former USSR is crawling with 12.7mm guns. (12.7mm is comparible in size & power with the .50BMG)

Why the hell would they want a .50 BMG that they couldn't get ammo for when they have tons of 12.7mm guns and ammo?

This is simply a way to get their names back in the papers, deflect some of the new self-defense beleivers, and eventually ban the .50BMG. Nothing more.

View Quote

there full of shit there making up a scare tactic to gets Guns banned. but what the hell
were still going to be victim's eather by bin laden or by our own government.

Posted: 10/9/2001 3:31:44 PM EDT

[#22]

The Jane's article isn't much. It's mentioned in a sidebar along with a laundry list of other things, but it does mention Barrett .50 caliber files. No further information, just the mention.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - [b]VPC: US Gun Industry Arms AlQaeda with .50s[/b]

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