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Posted: 10/6/2001 8:27:18 PM EST
I remember all the talk several years ago about the US developing EMP weapons and that is what knocked a couple of the commuter planes out of the sky when we were having that rash of crashes. Was it ever developed? Don't know what got me thinking about this, just curious.
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:28:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ratters: I remember all the talk several years ago about the US developing EMP weapons and that is what knocked a couple of the commuter planes out of the sky when we were having that rash of crashes. Was it ever developed? Don't know what got me thinking about this, just curious.
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Been watching "Goldeneye" again?
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:39:30 PM EST
Rash of commuter crashes? Where? When? Did I miss something?
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:42:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846: Been watching "Goldeneye" again?
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LOL. I forgot all about that. I remembered watching a TLC show on it (and other things)about less than lethal weapons. Just wondering if anything came of it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:44:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By BillofRights: Rash of commuter crashes? Where? When? Did I miss something?
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remember in the early nineties when it seemed like a prop plane would crash about once every other month. I know thats an exageration but there were quite a few.
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:45:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:47:03 PM EST
what about that thing that was supposed to be able to cause earthquakes and such.. I can't remember the name of it!!!
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 8:48:08 PM EST
Yes we do... And unfortunately, EMP bombs are really easy to make. About $400.00 worth of plastic explosive, basic ignition "coil" type electronics and copper wire. [url]http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=8738032&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=1&page_id=371&query=EMP&hiword=EMP+[/url]
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 9:27:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sodie: Yes we do... And unfortunately, EMP bombs are really easy to make. About $400.00 worth of plastic explosive, basic ignition "coil" type electronics and copper wire. [url]http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=8738032&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=1&page_id=371&query=EMP&hiword=EMP+[/url]
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OK, that was some scary reading.
Link Posted: 10/6/2001 11:57:28 PM EST
The world is a scary place indeed. With so many ways to destroy civilization, you have to wonder if time is not running out for this world. Then you got politicians like Klinton giving our secrets away, Might as well stop paying for life insurance, nobody is going to be around to collect it anyway. It just keeps getting worse. Time to hug the family again. And on top of this great news, the spell checker is down, and I can't sleep, what the Fluck is going on. Where's my tinfoil hat? oh no, it's been melted by a E-bomb.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 2:55:40 AM EST
AFAIK nukes produce this effect, along with other interesting effects.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 6:38:28 AM EST
This article speaks some major 'scary' bullshit. Except that it really ought to not be that scary. They talk about EMP like it will destroy everything. It won't. Active electronics, a lot of solid state stuff, I can see that. But it doesn't tear up factories. It doesn't tear up human beings who know what they hell they are doing. This article says, 'other than a few diesels, those cars will never start again.' Bullshit. We didn't always have computer controlled ignition systems. Batteries are easy to make, and a points type ignition system wouldn't be hard for someone to repair if they knew what the hell they were doing. The people who write these articles assume that as technology progresses, people become ignorant to the basis of that technology. If that was the case, these supposed terrorists wouldn't use ferilizer bombs and homemade C4. They'd use nothing but E-bombs. Just because your axehandle is broken does not mean that you can never whittle a new one. I can see something like this causing a major set-back. But these articles love to portray doomsday scenarios founded on the assumption that terrorists are all powerful and can blanket an entire country with this crap and take out everything. No.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:14:07 AM EST
EMP bombs don't seem like they will have much effect on a country still in the Stone Age.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:24:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By mattimeo: The people who write these articles assume that as technology progresses, people become ignorant to the basis of that technology.
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Also, the people who write these articles tend to be ignorant themselves about technology. They gladly accept the specs and theories spoonfed to them and don't know where they fit in the real world. For instance - "Published results suggest ramp times of tens of hundreds of microseconds..." Excuse me? Tens of hundreds of microseconds would equal miliseconds, and I seriously doubt if an EM signal in the low audio range would destroy civilization. Might make your cheap Radio Shack speakers buzz a little, though. [rolleyes] The sad fact is these morons have no idea about stuff like charge density, conservation of energy, inverse square law, and the magnetic flux levels required to induce "tens of millions of amps" of current, so they actually believe that a suitcase-sized bomb detonated over Miami will cause a blackout in Phoenix. Hell, it wouldn't even affect Pompano Beach! So whenever you read this type of bullshit, try to keep in mind that the sole purpose of the article is *not* to inform you with hard facts. But, rather, it's meant to get you to buy the magazine. And that's what it all comes down to - money.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:30:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:30:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:43:08 AM EST
There's something fishy about that Popular Mechanics article. It starts out talking about the Compton Effect (scattering of electrons by high energy photons) which is the mechanism for EMP generation by nuclear weapons, and then bait-and-switches to a description of a device for apparently converting chemical energy (of an explosive) into EM energy. I don't think the author of that article knows what he's talking about. Actually, I don't see how the EM energy emitted by the device described could exceed the energy stored in the magnetic field which, in turn, can't exceed the energy stored in the electrical capacitors--the explosive seems to just provide a very fast way of forcing the collapse of the magnetic field. Anybody else find the described device a little suspicious?
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:59:24 AM EST
Also, modern equipment has become more and more robust. Due to the fact computers, phones, and other electronic equipment produce more EM interference than ever. The same shielding, filters, etc helps in the opposite direction in lessening the effects of EM radaition from getting into modern devices. A Nuke's EMP field would still work on modern equipment(although I wouldn't really be worried if my tv doesn't work after a nuclear bomb goes off nearby), but the days of computer equipment crashing just due to some bad bits from interference are over. Most computers use spread spectrum, and crc checks to negate short inteference bursts. So the EMP attack would have to be sustained, very powerful, and extremely localized. Or else it'd cause a maximum downtime of a few seconds. Big deal!
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 7:10:26 PM EST
Posted by Ratters "remember in the early nineties when it seemed like a prop plane would crash about once every other month. I know thats an exageration but there were quite a few." We have averaged perhaps one per year. They were due to Icing, Mechanical failure, pilot error, etc. all the usual culprits. The Media invented the "rash of accidents" BTW, turboprops and recips would hold up well against EMP. You can shut off all the electrical systems and they will run all day. Aircraft in general are very well shielded, and most have mechanical type backups.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 7:35:09 PM EST
I don't know that everyone here knows what an EMP is, and what it actually DOES. Someone mentioning that computer's error correction circuitry could somehow compensate for it is (not to sound rude to anyone) ignorant. Error correction circuitry won't do anything if it's completely burned out! You have to understand what Inductance is. On an electric level, when you run current through a wire, and place a wire parallel to it, it will induce a current in the second wire. This is usually done in coils of wires, such as in a transformer, where the ratio of wires in each coil determines the voltage on the second coil. Inducing a current can be done with magnets, after all, a magnet either attracts, or repels electrons. This is how a generator works. An EMP is like a HUGE, amazingly POWERFUL magnet, that is only on for a split second, that INDUCES a HUGE current in any conductive materials. This current simply OVERLOADS and burns out circuitry. Integrated Circuits, like in your computers run on relatively low voltage and low current, and in an EMP, they are simply destroyed. The case on your PC at home is not anywhere near adequate sheilding against an EMP. Of course, there would be differing magnitudes of EMPs, thus their range would vary, and destructive power also.
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 7:54:28 PM EST
If you followed the news in Kosovo you may remember the news article that said,"United States uses Secret Weapon." It basically shut down the entire Air defense grid in Kosovo. That in my estimation was an EMP weapon. It effected the entire Air Defense Network. I wish I knew where to find an article on this. Benjamin
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:28:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ratters: I remember all the talk several years ago about the US developing EMP weapons and that is what knocked a couple of the commuter planes out of the sky when we were having that rash of crashes. Was it ever developed? Don't know what got me thinking about this, just curious.
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Look into HERF guns. [url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=HERF+gun[/url] [b]H[/b]igh [b]E[/b]nergy [b]R[/b]adio [b]F[/b]requency guns are pretty nasty in concept, both for electronic equipment as well as human tissues. God Bless Texas God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 10/7/2001 8:48:55 PM EST
Yea, it's called a microwave.
[b]H[/b]igh [b]E[/b]nergy [b]R[/b]adio [b]F[/b]requency guns are pretty nasty in concept, both for electronic equipment as well as human tissues.
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Link Posted: 10/8/2001 3:52:10 AM EST
A skeptical look at EMP fears: [url]http://www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt/other/kooks.htm[/url]
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