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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 10/5/2001 4:42:12 AM EDT
Macon, Georgia paper..... Police officer resigns after e-mail advocating killing Arabs By Erin McClam Associated Press ATLANTA --- A police officer was forced to resign after sending an e-mail advocating killing millions of Arabs and suggesting the United States should "eliminate the entire Arab world" if terrorism continues. Ray Sanford, a police crime analyst in Griffin, posted the note to a message board for law enforcement officers just days after the Sept. 11 attacks. "I think 1,000 Arabs must die for each American killed," Sanford wrote. "If they continue their attacks we will simply eliminate the entire Arab world. It doesn't bother me a bit." The message advocated starving the people of Afghanistan to death and bombing Mecca, the holy city of Islam, so Muslims would be forced to pray "at a crater 25 miles across." Sanford, 58, resigned from the force Wednesday after subscribers to the e-mail list complained to police Chief Armand Chapeau. Sanford said he created the e-mail list in 1993 as a forum for private discussion among law enforcement officers. The list is not officially tied to any law enforcement agency, but Sanford's message carried his professional e-mail signature, identifying him as a police officer. Thursday, Sanford told The Associated Press he sent the message before it became clear that the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon were the work of radical Islamic militants, not connected to moderate Arab nations. "I felt that an appropriate target would have been Mecca, in order to get the attention of the Muslim world that we were not going to put up with this kind of attack on U.S. soil," he said. Sanford said his message was inappropriate and admitted he lost his temper. But he declined to retract the message, saying it reflected how he felt in the emotional first few days after the attacks. "I still don't think that what I said, if you look at the full context, I don't believe it met the qualifications for being a bigot or racially offensive." Sanford said he had nothing against Arab-Americans and Muslims who live in the United States. "Most of the people who live here from those areas left there because it was so awful," he said. "The vast majority are nice people." Sanford said he supports the president's insistence that the coming war will be against global terrorist networks, not Arabs or Muslims. The message urged war against any country that attacks the United States, even if it means killing innocent women and children. "I want them all to die in screaming agony," it said. "I am tired of being the good guys." The note drew sharp criticism on the message board. One member called the message unacceptable and said it was laced with fear and racism. The police chief said Sanford had been a good employee in the year he worked at the department. Chapeau said Sanford, who has worked in law enforcement for 40 years, apologized when he turned in his resignation Wednesday night. Workers throughout the country have been punished for sending offensive e-mail from company accounts or with work-related signatures, such as Sanford's. In May, 19 patrol officers in Washington, D.C., were reassigned after they were suspected of sending racist, sexist and homophobic e-mail from their squad car computers.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:48:50 AM EDT
From the article - The message suggested....bombing Mecca, the holy city of Islam, so Muslims would be forced to pray "at a crater 25 miles across." Now that's religious terrorism! Eric The('TitForTat'IsAlwaysGood[u]'Strategery'[/u])Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:51:55 AM EDT
Too late!
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:55:47 AM EDT
[:x]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:02:49 AM EDT
Hmmm, I don't disagree with much of what he writes. Unfortunately the media is turnign this from a war to a legal event, and we can not have acceptable civilian casulaties in a legal event. I guess it will take another 10k of our peopel to die before we are allowed to get serious (lets hope it is the media folk's turn this time).
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:04:59 AM EDT
Oh my, isn't there something written down somewhere about "freedom of speech"?[>:/] Seems like I remember something like that?[>:/] Can anyone help?[:(!] PS, you know something is really, really wrong when I defend a cop[;D]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:08:41 AM EDT
One has to be color blind when one is defending the truth. BLue, black, red or yellow, if they are speaking the truth, one should listen.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:24:55 AM EDT
" Oh my, isn't there something written down somewhere about "freedom of speech"? Seems like I remember something like that? Can anyone help? PS, you know something is really, really wrong when I defend a cop" Platform 389 There is freedom of speech. No one can stop him from saying what he thinks. There is, however, nothing that protects you from punishment for what you've said. This is always misunderstood. In the same way that you can freely yell BOMB or FIRE at a movie theatre or in a plane. You can do it but you will have to pay the piper. Same goes for this guy. We are free to say what we want but are not guarenteed protection after the fact.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:33:29 AM EDT
Absolutely Ridiculous. Sounds like the Klintong losers are still using racial opportunity to recruit new minority voters into their fold. What pisses me off, I never see anyone other than white males get this kind of treatment for expressing themselves. Same goes for hate crimes charges. You would think that blacks in America never assault white people, if your opinions are formed by what you DON'T READ or SEE in the media.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 5:49:58 AM EDT
All you guys are full of crap. This is obviously a hate crime and should dealt accordingly. You guys need to realize how offended arabs living in this country might be at this kind of speech--especially from a police officer. I, for one, do not want to see anyone get their feelings hurt. If we go to war, we will kill people, but I don't see a reason to blatantly offend people or hurt anyone's feelings. That is just mean-spirirted and unamerican.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:11:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:20:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 455SD: All you guys are full of crap. This is obviously a hate crime and should dealt accordingly. You guys need to realize how offended arabs living in this country might be at this kind of speech--especially from a police officer. I, for one, do not want to see anyone get their feelings hurt. If we go to war, we will kill people, but I don't see a reason to blatantly offend people or hurt anyone's feelings. That is just mean-spirirted and unamerican.
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Remember, when you type, we can't tell you are talking sarcastically. Please let us know. Unless you are not being sarcastic, at which point someone needs to smack you upside the head with a 2x4.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 6:21:34 AM EDT
Of course I am joking. I was going to use a smilie but figured a post that cheesy would be self-explanitory.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 7:57:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2001 7:52:39 AM EDT by gijohnny223]
I say kill all of the bad people. No life +1 if you did it you die. Rouge Force had it right. Hell Watch the movie 15 Minutes it says it all. Our legal system is a joke........This my daddy mis treated me shit and mental incompitence shit is a joke. My boss can fire me, I said it let all hear[b][red] KILL ALL BAD PEOPLE.[/b][/red]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 8:21:34 AM EDT
The Constitution does NOT say freedom of speech unless it offends someone. No protection against being offended. If people want legislated protection from being offended, Canada has passed such legislation....[;D]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 8:23:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By retrodog: There is freedom of speech. No one can stop him from saying what he thinks. There is, however, nothing that protects you from punishment for what you've said. This is always misunderstood. In the same way that you can freely yell BOMB or FIRE at a movie theatre or in a plane. You can do it but you will have to pay the piper. Same goes for this guy. We are free to say what we want but are not guarenteed protection after the fact.
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careful! i was called a nazi yesterday for saying the same thing!
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 8:27:40 AM EDT
Good thing I'm not a police officer. I type things daily that offend. Yippeekaiyea!
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:00:16 AM EDT
Hmmm... Let's see..... The World Trade Center was the symbol of capitalism. (the unofficial "religion of the USA) "Religious Extremists" destroyed it. I see no major problem with sending a few "Capitalist Extremists" over to blow up Mecca... They all CAN kneel around the crater to pray!
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 9:11:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AmOTramp: Absolutely Ridiculous. Sounds like the Klintong losers are still using racial opportunity to recruit new minority voters into their fold. What pisses me off, I never see anyone other than white males get this kind of treatment for expressing themselves. Same goes for hate crimes charges. You would think that blacks in America never assault white people, if your opinions are formed by what you DON'T READ or SEE in the media.
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You are absolutely correct. Political Correctness gone insane. If you are a white male you are screwed when it comes to free expression if you don't tow the PC line. But we accept it and go on about our day to day lives.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 10:59:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: From the article - The message suggested....bombing Mecca, the holy city of Islam, so Muslims would be forcedpray "at a crater 25 miles across." Now that's religious terrorism! Eric The('TitForTat'IsAlwaysGood[u]'Strategery'[/u])Hun[>]:)]
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How does bombing Mecca relate to bombing our financial institutions here? That would certainly elicit an all out Jihad from the entire Muslim world...including those here. Want to piss off 7 Million Muslims in the USA (along with 30% of the world's population) & turn them against you? This would do it. If your agenda, however, is justice for what happened, you may want to terminate only the people that did this & those that helped them. In the event of full scale war I do expect innocent civilian lives to be lost. However, bombing Mecca does not seem to be the correct "strategery" in my opinion & I am glad that the cop who sent the email, along with anyone else who thinks this is a good idea, does not have their happy trigger finger on the red button.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:15:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2001 11:11:14 AM EDT by Lihr]
Originally Posted By platform389: Oh my, isn't there something written down somewhere about "freedom of speech"?[>:/] Seems like I remember something like that?[>:/] Can anyone help?[:(!]
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Why yes there is. Its right at the top of the Bill of Rights. You know, That piece of paper they had to put on the constitution to get all of the states to sign it. Some people in places of authority like to pretend some documents dont actually exist. [sniper]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:19:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2001 11:23:01 AM EDT by AmOTramp]
Matrix, these people hate us, being logical and understanding isn't going to change how they feel towards us. They want America gone from the face of this planet. "Death To America" sounds kind terminal to me. As far as getting them pissed, I would rather die on my feet than down on my knees, let the games begin.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:24:20 AM EDT
even if it means killing innocent women and children. "I want them all to die in screaming agony,"
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should have been allowed to take both a PC class and anger management class.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:30:44 AM EDT
Political correctness: 5,343,465,234,002 Free speech: 0
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2001 11:44:12 AM EDT by Matrix]
Originally Posted By AmOTramp: Matrix, these people hate us, being logical and understanding isn't going to change how they feel towards us. They want America gone from the face of this planet. "Death To America" sounds kind terminal to me. As far as getting them pissed, I would rather die on my feet than down on my knees, let the games begin.
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Yes...these animals do hate us & I want them found & punished as much as everyone else here. However, flinging bombs at innocents who did not do this is not going to bring us any closer to justice & will make the USA no better than the terrorists that did this. A "tit for tat" philosophy will lead to an all out, full scale war. Is everyone here who advocates this willing to go over there & personally kill women & children not involved in this? yes...I know women & children were killed at the WTC along with other innocents. They did not have a choice as the terrorists did not give them one. Are we going to be just like them & become the enemy we despise? I am not worried about pissing "them" off...I say we piss them off as much as possible... then kill them (if that is the best thing to do). But I don't see how alienating the entire Muslim world will solve the terror. Bombing Mecca would only Martyr OBLaden's cause & we know that "they" are willing to go to any length to win. If it ever comes to the entire Middle East against the USA...you WILL have to nuke them & eradicate every Muslim off the planet to be "safe." Sadly, even doing this will not ensure safety here...there will always be those who will wish to spread terror in the name of some great cause. Muslims & Islam are not the enemy. The enemy only claims to be Muslim & happens to quote Islam as its cause...that does not mean that they are right. In fact, they are as far from right as could be possible. Focus your hatred & rage against the animals that did this. Find them & those that helped them to justice...whatever that means....killing them is fine with me but also realize that doing so will make OBLaden a martyr & only further his cause & following. Better to capture him & make him suffer here. Put him in an isolated cell, play only American rock'n roll, feed him only pork & wine, make him wear American clothing...turn him into an American & return him to the Middle East. He will be a man without country or following. He will have become the enemy...that which he despises & hates the most. Bombing Mecca & killing innocents...that will make us no better than him. Is that the hollow victory we want? A victory without honour? We must not become the enemy or we will have already lost. I'm no soldier & have never seen armed conflict. Perhaps those better versed in this matter can help us with what war truly is & whether there is any honour/glory in bombing Mecca as a retaliation against what has happened.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:48:05 AM EDT
Post from Matrix -
How does bombing Mecca relate to bombing our financial institutions here? That would certainly elicit an all out Jihad from the entire Muslim world...including those here.
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It doesn't, nor do I advocate bombing a country that is, at least for all [u]public[/u] purposes, an ally of the USA. Their on again, off again, willingness to allow us to use their bases is certainly shallow and insupportable, but no cause for the USA bombing them! But insofar as a payback for this terrorism is concerned, it might prove beneficial if these idiots were apprehensive concerning their holy sites! Surely, these idiots thought they were bombing OUR 'holy' sites by bombing commercial and public buildings. We are, after all, the Great Satan! And let's just consider it a form of Mutual Assured Destruction, you know, the 'MAD' idea that characterized our relationship with the Soviet Union throughout the Cold War. Which basically boiled down to 'Strike us Ivan, and you will be struck back just as hard. Destroy us and you will be assured of destruction yourself!' It kept the peace for almost 50 years. Not a bad philosophy, huh? It certainly worked, too, didn't it! And what of little St. Paul's Chapel located a mere stone's throw away from the World Trade Center? Did the terrorists aboard the hijacked planes know that this precious church, where our First President, George Washington, prayed with his family, prior to walking down the street to Federal Hall, to be administered the first Oath of Office by an American President, was not going to be crushed by the falling towers??????? Did it bother them a friggin bit that a church of such religious and national significance was endangered by their assinine crimes????? I doubt it! So let the word go out that if this bullshit keeps up, [u]everybody's[/u] significant and historical buildings are in the sights of erverybody else! Maybe the friggin mullahs would get off their lard asses and declare 'fatwa' against the killing of innocent women, children and civilians! Maybe the dancing in the streets would suddenly cease if the people were scared shitless of what might happen in a 'worse case scenario'! You reckon????!!!! Eric The(NuffSaid!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 11:56:42 AM EDT
Eric: That would work against govenments & the general public. I doubt the terrorists care what would happen to them or their countries...they are willing to die in battle for the Glory of Heaven. Deterrence is not an option against terrorists...in my opinion....bomb away...it will only fuel them the more. If deterrence were an option, they would not have attacked us in the first place. They know the might & power of the USA. Why awaken a sleeping giant unless your death (along with anyone elses) is already factored in? I don't think 'nuff can be said about this. You are not dealing with rational people. These are zealots and radicals...destruction of the entire planet would not stop them...in my opinion. I'm no expert but from what I have read & heard from the experts, these folks are not afraid of anything.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 12:01:32 PM EDT
Police officers give up rights to be police officers and do not enjoy the same civil liberties that other citizens do. They have restricted 1st Amendment rights. They have restricted 2nd Amendment rights. They have restricted 4th Amendment rights. They have restricted 5th Amendment rights. In this case, Ray Sanford's speech was made in a way that identified his department and his position. This can make his department "look bad," so it is not protected speech. He might have been okay if he would have been more circumspect about his employer, but he wasn't.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 12:07:37 PM EDT
Post from Matrix -
I doubt the terrorists care what would happen to them or their countries...they are willing to die in battle for the Glory of Heaven.
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But surely even in their view, Allah would be sorely displeased if their actions (which have been explained over, and over again, are not an approved act in Islam) resulted in the loss of a religious shrine! It is like the post I made the other day about giving the Terrorists 'Second Thoughts' and mentioning that Gen. Black Jack Pershing had executed Muslim terrorists by firing squad after having the terrorists shown the pigs that would be slaughtered and thrown into their graves with them. Wouldn't THAT prevent them from going to Paradise under common understanding of Islam? Well, when these bastids are killed, as they must surely be, I say we shovel pig dung onto their graves! Maybe the next group of terrorists would think twice!!!! Eric The(ISay'PigGrease'ShouldBeIncludedInTheBattl­eKitsOfAllUSSoldiersInAfghanistan!ExceptMusli­ms,OfCourse!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 12:12:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:28:51 PM EDT
Eric: It is my belief that you are attempting to apply logic to animals that are illogical, irrational, & frankly do not care to live. Their entire goal is to die for their cause & to take as many with them as possible. Although I find your method of deterrence amusing I do not believe it will stop any terrorists from conducting their acts of terror against us or anyone who stands with us. There is nothing you can do to deter a terrorist. They are willing to die...what more can you threaten them with? Deny them admission into heaven by desecrating their graves? Making their graves "unholy"...might make us feel better but I truly doubt it would make a difference to them. Then again, neither of us are terrorists so what the heck do we know what they are thinking? As to what God would be displeased at...well, that is way above my mere mortal understanding. I would have to go to law (or medical) school to comprehend such matters. [;D] The terrorists already have a warped view of Islam & what God wants. Its just my opinion though...you may be correct & we should follow all possible means of deterrence at our disposal. "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." ----John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
Link Posted: 10/5/2001 4:32:03 PM EDT
All I want to know is.....[peep]....who`s watching the watchers?.......[bounce]
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