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Posted: 10/2/2001 9:46:04 AM EST
Not all of them, but a lot are. Just the other day I was watching a story on the news about how the US was considering normalizing relations with them, and stop the boycott. Then all these Cuban-American jerks started protesting and saying how wrong that it would be cause of all the bad stuff that Castro has done. Well we buy all kinds of stuff from China and their track record makes Castro look like Mother Theresa (yeah, I'm exagerating a little, I know). But we still do business with them. Hell, I say we open trade with Cuba and support their evolution into capatilism. Even an old fart like Castro wouldn't be able to stop it now. And besides, all these Cuban-American jerks are just the ones who ran away from a good fight to start with. Of course most of the people who started this country was just people running away. But I still say that we open up trade with Cuba and anyone who wants to complain about it can just get their but back on a raft and see where the ocean takes them. They are Americans now so they can get with the program or get the hell out.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 9:52:18 AM EST
trade. yes. political dealings. no Zaz
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:01:37 AM EST
Give them TVs, big color ones, refrigderators, and Coca-Cola, bring them the American way ...make them ouurs!
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:06:14 AM EST
"Oh and must we forget the Native Americans?" posted by TheWind Now that's what I'm talkin about [:D]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:20:15 AM EST
Open trade with them and watch them fall. We'd get great cigars and they'd get Americanized. Communism in Cuba would crumble quickly if we did that. Castro doesn't have much time left. The world may hate us, but they eat our POP Culture like candy. God Bless Texas.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:23:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 10:59:51 AM EST
Yeah, they're a pain in the ass alright. Their always being fiercely loyal to their friends, families, and country. It's a pain to have to have them always standing right beside you through any kind of pain or trouble. It's a pain in the ass to see them putting other folks and their needs ahead of their own. It's a real pain to see 3 of the same family trying to join the military because [b]their[/b] country was attacked. It's pain because this family provides the best damn site on the internet and asks very little in return.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:23:16 AM EST
"Yeah, they're a pain in the ass alright. Their always being fiercely loyal to their friends, families, and country. It's a pain to have to have them always standing right beside you through any kind of pain or trouble. It's a pain in the ass to see them putting other folks and their needs ahead of their own. It's a real pain to see 3 of the same family trying to join the military because their country was attacked. It's pain because this family provides the best damn site on the internet and asks very little in return." Don_R You left one out: And it's a pain when they let their personal grievences keep their country from handling a situation the best way possible. Geez, did I tweek a nerve here? What are you, part of that group that trains on weekends to go overthrow Castro. Well if you are then more power to you. It's your country and if you want to take it back I'll even loan you a few of my rifles. If you're not then let the rest of us dismantle Castro's control through whatever works best. There are still a lot of good people there on that island and they need help. Boycotting the country hasn't worked in 50 years and it's not gonna start now. Castro may be an asshole but he's not a stupido. OUR DEALINGS WITH CUBA HAVE NOT WORKED. LET'S TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT. And since the bleeding heart liberals would never support a war then we should overtake them by culture/capitalism. I never said that any of these people are worthless so you are wasting you words proving them loyal to your causes mentioned. Hell, I've actually liked every Cuban-American I've ever met, except my ex-girlfriend's brother who promotes communism. He's an ignorant asshole. America gave the Cubans a better place to live cause of communism. Now they should grow up, get over it, and show their support for overthrowing it however we see fit,,, my only point.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:31:53 AM EST
There is no such thing as a Cuban-American. We do not allow and I'm sure neither does Cuba for dual-citizenship.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:32:43 AM EST
You need to show a little more fucking respect, retrobitch [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/tylerdurden1201%2Fcountdown%2Egif[/img] Tyler
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:38:03 AM EST
Cuba needs us not the other way around. Screw the bunch of loser commies. The only thing they make that Americans think they need are cigars. Believe me they are over rated.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:43:51 AM EST
"You need to show a little more fucking respect, retrobitch" tylerdurden1201 Respect for whom? I'm showing respect for my country, the U.S.A. Watch your language dude. Do you kiss your momma with that mouth? I know I do [:D] Anyway. Take a chill pill or something tylerdork. Oh man, now you've done it, I've sunk to your level. Oh and what's that one finger thing, your IQ or the number of human parents you have??? [:D]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 12:01:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2001 12:15:15 PM EST by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 12:25:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2001 12:27:43 PM EST by DonS]
Originally Posted By retrodog: Not all of them, but a lot are. Just the other day I was watching a story on the news about how the US was considering normalizing relations with them, and stop the boycott. Then all these Cuban-American jerks started protesting and saying how wrong that it would be cause of all the bad stuff that Castro has done.
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Uhh, how does this make them "jerks"?
Originally Posted By retrodog: Well we buy all kinds of stuff from China and their track record makes Castro look like Mother Theresa (yeah, I'm exagerating a little, I know). But we still do business with them.
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Cmmunist China was one of the most murderous nations in history, eclipsing both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. But just because we have more or less 'noarmalized' relations with them doesn't mean Cuban Americans should have to agree that we should normalize relations with Castro's Cuba. If your family had been tortured and murdered by Castro's goons, I doubt that your opinion of communist Cuba would be dictated by the US governments policy towards China.
Originally Posted By retrodog: Hell, I say we open trade with Cuba and support their evolution into capatilism.
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I think this is a resonable argument. However, if you and your family suffered under Castro, I suspect you natural reaction would be to refuse to normalize relations with communist Cuba. And Cuban Americans can no doubt come up with a reasonable argument on why we shouldn't normalize relations.
Originally Posted By retrodog:And besides, all these Cuban-American jerks are just the ones who ran away from a good fight to start with.
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Actually, during the Bay of Pigs, quite a few of these "jerks" (or perhaps their fathers, uncles, and grandfathers) put up one hell of a good fight. If America's leaders at the time hadn't been so gutless things may have turned out quite different. In my reading of the Bay of Pigs, the Cubans we sent in were mopping up Casto's guys, but lack of support, including air support, sealed their fate. Edit: I have to add, one thing that has only added shame to America has been our willingness to "sell out" one ally or another due to political expedience, or due to some PC sense of morality. I think the former happened during the Bay of Pigs, and perhaps the latter happened when we "let" the commies take over Cuba in the first place. I am no fan of American intervention abroad, but if we decide to pitch in with someone, we should stick with him and hold up our part of the bargin. Otherwise, being our friend doesn't mean much. From the perspective of most of the world, it probably makes morse sense to be our enemy, since we often treat them better in the end anyway.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 12:38:52 PM EST
[size=4] [blue] Painting with a broad brush is best if done on a porous surface,......not people. I happen to know a couple of them which have earned my respect. Maybe you do to,.....or you are just plain naive![/size=4][/blue]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 12:42:44 PM EST
edavilasr, Thanks for your level-headed feedback. That's much better than what I was getting before. But as far as what they did in the past,,, that IS the past. We need to move forward. And the Chinese have been guilty of many more atroscities than Cuba. Castro doesn't even hold a candle to them. Or don't you care about the asian countries or Tibet or any of the others over there. I was just pointing out the apparent hypocratical nature of doing business with China and not with Cuba. But in all fairness, I do see a lot of Asian oriented people protesting the business with China. And yes, I was talking about every group from foriegn origins. I was just pointing out the irony of the correlation. Look around, we have trade with Great Britain, Germany, France, China, Japan, Russia, blah blah blah,,, pretty much everbody that anybody here had to ever leave due to political or religious persecution. And then there is Cuba. What makes it so special? Why can't we trade with them and try something different in the attempt to change them??? Okay, you win, I don't think that these protestors are jerks. I don't even think that they are stupid. Maybe just too naieve. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that what we've been doing isn't working. And we can't nuke them. So you tell me what we should do. Hell the only reason that this country made it so easy for Cuban refugees to come here was to fuel the anti-communist propaganda machine. They let you guys come here so you could tell the rest of the world how evil. Now that Communism isn't such a threat,,, we aren't so easy to come to anymore. I've got problems with that philosophy too but don't feel like getting into it right now. And you say that these protesters are just expressing their opinion, same as me here. Well technically and such, you might be right. But let me asure you that there is a difference between people expressing their opionions on the street in an aggresive protest and one dude posting a message on a forum about people protesting against their own country. I'm not biting off more than I can chew. I'm not biting off anything. My teeth hurt anyway. [:D] And besides, you probably are a little biased on this subject so your thoughts on it are in question. Not much different than when some mommy's little darling gets shot at school and then she thinks all guns should be consficated. Well I'm not holding her hand and telling her that it's okay to take my guns. I'm also not holding your hand and telling you it's okay to hate Castro forever and never do business with Cuba again until they become a democracy and kill the old fart. You are emotionally involved with this situation and therefore are probably incapable of determining what is the best way to deal with it. The big war with communism is over and we won. Now we need to get on with cleaning up the little messes,,, Cuba. There is no way that you guys can make me anti-Cuban-American cause I'm not. I just want this whole Cuba thing behind us so I can go vacation down there and watch I Love Lucy reruns. That Ricky Ricardo was one cool dude [:D] And the Cuban women are some of the most beautiful around. That's it, I'm heading to Miami...
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 1:35:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas: Open trade with them and watch them fall. We'd get great cigars and they'd get Americanized. Communism in Cuba would crumble quickly if we did that. Castro doesn't have much time left. The world may hate us, but they eat our POP Culture like candy. God Bless Texas.
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Castro's Cuba may hate the USA's guts, but they sure like our greenbacks.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 1:35:50 PM EST
Post from DonS -
If America's leaders at the time hadn't been so gutless things may have turned out quite different.
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Don't hold back here, it was that friggin Kennedy Bastid that was the sole decision maker who turned his back on the Cubans! He alone! Let me quote a little something from Seymour M. Hersh's [i]The Dark Side of Camelot.[/i] "Sometime on April 19 the Kennedys received the unsettling news that four American pilots, members of the Alabama Air National Guard who were in Nicaragua secretly training the Cubans, had ignored the president's refusal to authorize a second strike and had taken off on their own, in two B-26s, to go to war against Castro. The bombers inflicted heavy damage to the Cuban forces before being shot down. It was not immediately known whether the pilots survived..... "On the afternoon of April 19, with the fate of the rogue pilots still unclear, Bissell was summoned to an Oval Office meeting with John and Robert Kennedy....'When everything was over,' Bissel told Weininger [the daughter of one of the dead pilots] 'I went to brief the president. Bobby met me when I entered. He was short but got right in my face as best he could. The first words out of his mouth were [b]"Those American pilots had better goddamned well be dead."[/b] Bobby's only concern was the image of his brother and what the pilots could do if they were captured....Bobby was like a wounded animal, while the president just set back and let him attack.' The Central Intelligence Agency, Bobby Kennedy said, "had better keep the [pilots'] families quiet." At the time of the Bay of Pigs, Bissell told her, he 'didn't know the real Jack Kennedy.'" [b]The Kennedys later tried to keep the pilots' families from receiving any kind of military pensions, still worried of the political fallout that might occur from any leak of what actually happened.[/b] Now those are the Kennedys the American public need to see! Eric The(NextWeTalkAboutTheDiemBrothers'Hit!)Hun[>­]:)]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 3:13:34 PM EST
The only Kennedys the public is going to hear about are the heroic ones who "saved the day" in WW2 and during the Cuban Missile Crises.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 3:21:45 PM EST
Post from DonS -
The only Kennedys the public is going to hear about are the heroic ones who "saved the day" in WW2 and during the Cuban Missile Crises.
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And speaking of the Cuban Missile Crisis, once you read the real skinny on what happened in that little incident, you'll view the recent movie '13 Days' as pure farce, if you even want to see that movie. Remember the book, 'The Dark Side of Camelot' by Seymour M. Hersh. It's a must read for anyone interested in zapping all of the Kennedy fans! Eric The(LetMeGetThisStraight,APTBoatIsRammedByASl­owerMovingDestroyer[u]And[/u]JFKComesOutAHero?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:03:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Eric The(LetMeGetThisStraight,APTBoatIsRammedByASl­owerMovingDestroyer[u]And[/u]JFKComesOutAHero?)Hun[>]:)]
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Eric, I agree with you on most things and the more I have learned in the last few years the less respect I have had for JFK. However, a full size ship at sea has virtually no engine noise as, at least back then, they were powered by steam engines and the shear length of the stacks muffles a lot of noise, but a steam engine makes little noise to start with as the boilers are heated by a flame as opposed to explosions in an internal combustion engine. If you a sitting in a PT boat in neutral with the engines idling, you definitely cannot hear a ship coming. Also, PT boats were an absolute pain in the ass to get into gear in a hurry. This particular PT also had no radar. After this incident, they changed policy to idling in gear, not neutral and most boats got radar shortly thereafter. I was in the Navy many moons ago and if you go out on deck, especially at night, all you hear is the water slapping against the hull as you move through it. An idling Packard engine would drown that out.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:45:58 PM EST
JFK is soley responsible for what happened in Cuba. Castro took power Jan. 1, 1959. Eisenhower immediately started planning to remove Communism from our front door. When Kenedy cheated Nixon in 1960 he became President and Eisenhower handed his plans for an all-out military invasion over to Kenedy who relegated it to a covert CIA cover our asses because it it Politically Incorrect and America might have to go to war situation. Kenedy betrayed the American people and especially the Cuban people. As a result the Cuban Missle Crisis Occured, many innocent Cubans and Yes American Soldiers were unneccessarily killed because that pussy wouldn't do what was necessary. In case you don't know it the Bay of Pigs was going our way up until Kenedy pulled U.S. Air Support. It continued to go our way for a few more days until Castro ordered the Rebels/Americans burned out. Americans and Cubans both were killed and/or jailed. As a resukt the Cuban community left the Democratic Party and began supporting Republicans. This was the de facto Cuban support until Klinton legalized over a Million Immigrants in 1996. Among these were many Cubans who then owed their alleience to Klinton. Well guess what when Elian was seized these guys lost that alliegence and the very people Klinton used to try to win Florida made Bush our 43rd President. Without the Cuban vote Miami-Dade county may well have gone the way of Broward and Palm Beach. Who protested the most in S. Florida against Klinton. It was the Cubans even though the Liberal Garbage from Coral Gables (Home of O.J.) were holding Anti-Cuban/Pro-Klinton/Pro-Reno protests. Who hates Cubans the most. The answer is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Bill Klinton. Jesse hates Cubans. Al hates Cubans. Bill Klinton blames Cubans for a Political failure. Is that who you should agree with. The CUbans are good honest citizens. They work and pay into our economy. They start businesses and create new jobs for Americans. They are the most patriotic unlike Mexicans and Guatemalans. Cubans despise enemies of Freedom and support the Conservative candidates. Cubans banded together to create Hermanos Al Rescante, Democracia, etc. who champion freedom and democracy in Cuba and the world. They rescue lost rafters from the Ocean saving America the costs unlike Mexicans who America has to foot the bill for. These are a great group of people. Working in Miami I learned the plight of Cubans in Cuba. I hope bigots out there get the chance I did. And one last thing they make damned good food. Ever try Lechon Asado skewered with onions/peppers/etc. you'll love it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:49:14 PM EST
Sorry, LARRYG, but that last part was a bit from P. J. O'Rourke, formerly of the [i]National Lampoon[/i], as a hit on JFK. I just had to throw it in. Kennedy, after the collision, did, in fact, handle himself quite well. He managed to get all of his surviving crew back safely, including one sailor who was badly injured, as I recall. Eric The(AndWeShouldGiveHimCreditForThat)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:49:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 6:32:04 PM EST
My personal experience with Cubans has been fine. We have a Cuban surgeon here who is highly respected and seems to have tons of common sense. Very different than the Mexicans it has been my displeasure to meet. He visits the place now and then and tells some stories both good and bad about Castro's ways. Have shot with GB & Ed Sr and they are fine people. GB is a little too PC over insulting the VERMIN with whom we are currently at war, but I try to ignore that. I see no connection between that shortcoming and his heritage. Castro is another mistaken product of the US. We helped put him in power and his staying in power has been remarkable to say the least. He can not, however, live forever! I sympathise with the Cubans here who see their country under his thumb and the suffering it has / does cause. I have far less sympathy with what has happened to Miami. Policy regarding Cuba is certainly due for review and adjustment after the current "problem" is over. While the opinions of those of Cuban background in the US is very important I also think they need to remember that they are a minority here and are not entitled to control the final decision(s) regarding the island. Some of the overly vocal ones do no service to their cause. I really do not know the answer but do sincerely hope democracy gets to Cuba soon!
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 6:41:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 9:01:45 PM EST
No 'peeka 'panish? You are a reactionary capitalist dog... No, wait. I see you are a Commie hugging anti-american American who wants Castro to win the war he has waged for 40 years against America. Okay.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 8:42:35 AM EST
Hey Goad, who you talkin to? If you're talking to me then you're half right. I'll hug a commie. I'll hug him real tight, just like a python. As far as Castro is concerned,,, I think he is a total asshole. There's just more than one way to skin a cat. Oh, are you familiar with that phrase? It means that there is more than one way to get the job done. I don't see Cuba as being anything special. It's just another country that we need to support the overthrow of the government. Now how we do that is the question. What we've been doing over the last several years isn't working. This country keeps trying to do something different but all the anti-Castro whiners always mess things up. I'm fed up with Cuba sitting off my couuntry's coastline and staying all screwed up. I'm looking for ideas. I'm open to suggestions. But not one of anybody who is bitching at me has offered a single solution to the problem. Well you are sitting in your nice little home and staring at Oprah or Sally or Jerry Springer while the people of Cuba continue to suffer. I want to do something to fix their country. Maybe you don't care cause you are okay. Well isn't that just special. There's a lot of good people down there who continue to suffer and that sucks. Put your brain where your mouth is, if you can get your ass out of the way, and come up with something...
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 8:53:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: And speaking of the Cuban Missile Crisis, once you read the real skinny on what happened in that little incident, you'll view the recent movie '13 Days' as pure farce, if you even want to see that movie.
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I specifically avoided seeing it.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:00:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:01:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Kennedy, after the collision, did, in fact, handle himself quite well. He managed to get all of his surviving crew back safely, including one sailor who was badly injured, as I recall. Eric The(AndWeShouldGiveHimCreditForThat)Hun[>]:)]
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I agree, but he wasn't exactly Sgt. York, either. The movie, books, etc., happened because [i]he was a good looking Kennedy[/i]. If Nixon had done it (Nixon was in the Navy and [i]wanted[/i] a combat position) they would not have made half the fuss about the incident. Not that I'm a Nixon fan, he's too much of a statist interventionist for my taste, but you have to note how he would have been treated differently. And damn, the fawning over JFK jr. No doubt he would have been much better than his uncle Ted (hard to be worse, eh?), but you would think the guy was the political equivelent of Jesus Christ to listen to the liberal elite.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:08:15 AM EST
I am an American of Cuban origin. Retrodog your comments are at the very least inaccurate and unfair. The fact of the matter is that if the CIA and JFK would have kept their end of the bargain( Air Support )during bay of Pigs, Cuba would be free nowadays.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:09:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By retrodog: I'm fed up with Cuba sitting off my couuntry's coastline and staying all screwed up. I'm looking for ideas. I'm open to suggestions. But not one of anybody who is bitching at me has offered a single solution to the problem.
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I happen to think that normalizing relations is the best way to get rid of Castro. But that doesn't mean I expect the Cubans in this country will or should agree with me on this. And I happen to like them as a group. They are not "jerks". It is reasonable to debate the issue on how to deal with Cuba, but I don't see the point in making verbal assaults on an American community that is know for its anticommunism.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:15:02 AM EST
Take them out. The take about 100 million US dollars to buy, distribute, and deploy boxes of Kleenex for all the whiners and so-called americans who think they can still parade around supporting their shitty country. E
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 9:36:47 AM EST
Ariel, your stuck in yesteryear again. Are you actually reading what I've posted??? Sure I think that the Bay of Pigs was screwed up by our leaders at the time, but that was then and reliving history doesn't do anything to straighten up the problem. DonS, I agree with you. So I got a little riled up and called them jerks. Let's get real. The term "jerk" is not all that bad. It only implies slight disapproval, or that you think they are doing something wrong. But that's the problem with things, people tend to hear/read something different than what you write cause someone else pissed them off before. I DID NOT call them assholes, morons, dickheads, jerkoffs, or any other significant derogatory name. Are we all so politically correct that even a mild word like "jerk" is grounds for calling someone harsh names and giving the bird? I guess some of us are. Gees, talk about triggers and scar tissue... Still all I'm hearing, other than you agreeing with my idea, are people saying to blow them all up. When is one of these of-Cuban-origin-anti-trade-anti-communism protester types gonna tell me of a better way of changing Cuba. I'm still waiting. And I don't consider blowing up the island an acceptable solution.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 10:11:00 AM EST
And to think that some of you foolish individuals actually think that one man, JFK, Nixon, BUSH, or any other president actually had one fucking word to say about anything or actually was the one man that made any significant decision. Hahahahha...you guys crack me up. The president is nothing but a mere puppet, one who conforms to those around him. Jesus...this site scares me. E
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 11:32:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2001 11:37:11 AM EST by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 11:37:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 2:05:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By retrodog: Hey Goad, who you talkin to? If you're talking to me then you're half right. I'll hug a commie. snip Put your brain where your mouth is, if you can get your ass out of the way, and come up with something...
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Lacking any evidence to the contrary I have long assumed that as a part of the solution to the Cuban missle crisis, which we know did bring the world to the very brink of WW3, former President Kennedy promised the Soviets that USA would never invade Cuba. Because of this promise neither you nor I nor President Bush is going to solve the problem of Castro because the problem is Castro himself. However, If you impetuously reject my words and want to swim to Cuba to bust'a cap on Castro's dome, be my guest. Here is my help: Drive southwest from Miami about 110 miles on A1A and bear to the left until you must stop at a red post that says southern most point. Turn to your left and walk a couple hundred yards. Take a moment to absorb the beauty. Swim 90 miles. Bust'a cap on Castro's dome. Here is better help: Decide not to swim and instead walk to Sloppy Joe's. Get hair out of ass by drinking boat drinks and generally relieving stress until you pass out. Drive home in the morning or when they let you out of jail, whichever comes first. Whatever behavior you choose, I suggest you grow some. Hope that helps you.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 6:25:30 PM EST
Goad, Well at least I sort of understood that post. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep it close to my heart. [:D] Hey EdavilaSr, So who is second in line? Is it someone who is going to be better than Castro or worse? If someone worse then we need to get to work while Castro is still in charge. If it's somebody better then I'm all for waiting. Does anybody know one way or the other?
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 3:33:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:23:30 AM EST
Retrodog, please delete this thread by pressing the garbage can icon on the tool bar on your first post. You'll feel better, I'll feel better, we'll all feel better! It just chaps by a$$ to log on and constantly have this caption smacking me in the face! So, just step into the strike zone and take the hit for the home team! Eric The(AndI'mCertainlyNotTheOnlyOne...)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:33:56 AM EST
Hey RetroDog, When [b]your[/b] family has had people dragged out of their homes, imprisoned, shot, or forced into exile; When [b]you[/b] have had to flee your homeland because your life was in danger simply because you believed in freedom; When [b]you[/b] have arrived in a country where, for all it's wonders, freedoms, and other good traits, you are still treated as an ignorant spic by [b]truly[/b] ignorant people; When [b]you[/b] have tried to invade your own country in order to liberate it, only to be left on the beaches to die because your primary supporter stabbed you in the back; When [b]your[/b] community has been treated like a bunch of terrorists simply because they wanted to preserve freedom for a little boy whose mother drowned trying to give it to him; When [b]you[/b] belong to a community that can be slandered, maligned, and otherwise defamed at will (I've never seen any of these self-rightous assholes that now demand we treat all Arabs with respect standing up for Cubans anytime) simply because it refuses to act like a stereotypical minority; [b]THEN[/b] you can go and bitch about Cuban-Americans being a pain in the ass. Until then, please forgive me and my fellow AMERICANS of Cuban descent if we happen to be a tad over-passionate about our freedoms, our culture, and the homeland of our parents. I'd really go off on you, but I sense frustration, rather than anger or hatred, in your message. Frustration can be misdirected, as I believe yours is. Hopefully, the other guys on this board who actually know what a media noche is will see it as I do. USNA91 Miami, Florida
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:44:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 4:41:45 AM EST by I_Luv_Carrots]
Originally Posted By retrodog: When is one of these of-Cuban-origin-anti-trade-anti-communism protester types gonna tell me of a better way of changing Cuba. I'm still waiting. And I don't consider blowing up the island an acceptable solution.
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****** Edited to add USNA91 and I must've been typing at the same time- Out positions are exactly the same [:D] ******** Imagine this. The United States, after some future terrorits attack, is very socially fragile. All of a sudden, Ralph Nader and his 6,000,000 of his cronies take up arms, and overthrow the government (Ain't gunna happen, but i'm using it to illustrate a paralel). They institute a brutal socialist regime, which you hate. You try and fight, but you can't. There isn't enough food to go around. They government is forcing people to do things they shouldn't have to do. You realize your country is a lost cause under El Presidente Nader, so you ride out to Canada, leaving everything you own, and much of your family behind. In Canada, there are advantages. Free healthcare, good beer, over-the-counter codiene... but you really want to be back home with your family, and friends. So, you live in Canada. You start a buisness, you succeed. An "American-Transplant" community takes shape in Canada- and you are very well respected by the Canadians, and the people. While you enjoy your new life in Canada, you really want to be back home in the US. Now. Are you telling me that if this happened, you wouldn't be outspoken against Nader while you were in Canada? HELL YES YOU WOULD! You can't blame the Cuban community for hating Castro, becasue he is a man worthy of hate. I'm not going to get into the racial thing with them, becasue it would force me to draw comparisons between them, and other much less sucessful races, and i'd get in trouble. But if you are going to complain about a certian segment of the population, you really can't complain about them. As a culture, they have shown the ability to operate quite sucessfully in the US, and contribute their share (Maybe even a bit more). This entitles them to have their own causes. So, yeah. They bitch about Castro. It doesn't seem important to you, but if Castro was running your homeland (The United States), it probably would. You want a way to change Cuba? Simple. Once Fidel dies, Git'mo empties, and tells Raoul he either cooperates with us, or gets unseated and thrown to the Cuban people for justice (Ala Haiti, and our involvement there) Communism dies in our back yard, we all are happy, and I can finally get a god damn Cuban Hoyo #5 without having to pay $45 frickin dollars.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 4:51:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By retrodog: And besides, all these Cuban-American jerks are just the ones who ran away from a good fight to start with. Of course most of the people who started this country was just people running away.
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Maybe what I sensed was [b]ignorance[/b] rather than frustration. Frustration I can forgive, ignorance I generally don't. So we're jerks because we ran away, heh? Does this make anyone who flees tyranny for freedom a jerk? Does this make anyone who retreated in order to be able to fight later a jerk? Listen, dickhead, the Cubans you so cavalierly slam are the same people who mounted a full-scale invasion to retake their country from the tyranny that had wrenched it from them. [b]I HAD FAMILY ON THAT BEACH![/b] Your precious fellow (i.e. - non-Cuban) "Americans" promised us all the support we'd need, then betrayed us and abandoned us! Did we quit? NO! We kept fighting until there was no other way to resist, and to do so would have meant throwing our lives away for no good purpose. Afterwards, we tried to organize another attempt, but guess who has stood in our way all these years? Yep - your precious (again, non-Cuban) "Americans". Our people get arrested simply for trying to be prepared. We do the [b]same thing[/b] as your highly-touted "militias", only our target is an enemy of this nation, rather than the government of this nation. For this [b]WE[/b] are called a pain in the ass? How many other minorities in this country can claim that they assaulted their homeland in order to free it from a dictatorship? I don't remember Jews flocking to Israel to help in the fight when that little country kicked in the teeth of their invaders. I don't recall blacks lining up to assault South Africa at the height of appartheid... You say you have many Cuban friends. I can assure you that you have not mentioned this "thought" process to them, because I guarantee you that if you do, any one of them will hand you your ass on a plate, along with a side order of congri and yuca.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:10:28 AM EST
Hey I_love_carrots, Welcome to the forum. Glad that you made my string your first. I feel rather honored about that. Okay, that feeling has subsided. You wasted a lot of time setting up an example about similar occurances happening in the US as if it would make a difference to me. It would not. You could have just said to imagine if I was a Cuban exile. It is a hell of a lot easier for me to imagine that than all this crap you made up about Nader and the US. Then you spend all this time telling me what a dick that Castro is. HELLO, anybody in there (as I tap on your head), we all know he is a dick. Never said anything different. I like how you wrap it up. I was kind of starting to buy into the whole story I was getting from EdAvilaSr. He might be right. USNA91,,, Blah blah blah you would feel the same way. Blah blah blah youo would do the same thing. Well maybe you are right. this just sticks with my earlier statement about how those victims of a situation are not the ones who are levelheaded enough to be the ones to figure out how to deal with it. And another thing, as soon as you become US citizens, you go to war with who the president says to go to war with and nobody else. Cause when you do, then you are no longer US citizens. You represent us at that point and better get it together. Or is our country just some place you can swear false allegience to while you wait till it is safe to go home. You're either American or not ( and don't get into that whole thing about the whole American thing, I don't feel like it right now.). But I'll be sure to bring this up with some of my Cuban friends next time I see them and get back to you about whether they served my ass up to me with those funky side orders you mentioned. But just remember, this was never a discussion about whether they, the Cubans, would fight. I know they will. Now be careful not to propogate that whole anger stereotype thing. It's really very unbecoming.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:33:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 5:39:52 AM EST by USNA91]
Originally Posted By retrodog: And another thing, as soon as you become US citizens, you go to war with who the president says to go to war with and nobody else. Cause when you do, then you are no longer US citizens. You represent us at that point and better get it together.
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We did. Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Beirut, the Gulf, and everywhere else our president sent us. I myself was in Haiti, despite the fact that the policy we were implementing was absolute bullshit. We didn't question; we said, "Aye, aye, sir!" and obeyed. Unlike many of the assholes who call themselves "real" Americans despite the fact that when their country called, they ran to Canada or London.
Or is our country just some place you can swear false allegience to while you wait till it is safe to go home.
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False allegiance? We've bled in every battle this country has fought since 1959 (and a few before then, too). Just because our parents long to return to their homeland makes them disloyal? Just because many of my parents no identify themselves more as American than Cuban, yet still wish to see their homeland free makes them disloyal? I guess anyone who disagrees with our government is, in your eyes, disloyal. Count me in!. If being loyal means blindly accepting what the government says, then I guess I'm a complete fucking insurrectionist. Proud of it, too. And as for "getting with the program or getting out". Let's see, [b]we[/b] tried to liberate an island 90 miles from our shorline where nuclear missles were being aimed at us. [b]You[/b] did nothing. Seems to me we're more concerned about the security of this country than you are, or at least, we can make a more credible claim.
But just remember, this was never a discussion about whether they, the Cubans, would fight. I know they will. Now be careful not to propogate that whole anger stereotype thing. It's really very unbecoming.
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Then simply refrain from talking shit and we'll all get along fine. [^] We're not perfect. Oh Lord, how we Cubans are not perfect! I give my elders shit all the time for having allowed that scumbag to dupe them as he did. [whacko] What we are is fiercely patriotic (to both our countries), devoted to family, politically outspoken, and extremely independant. These are all traits that Americans should embrace. Perhaps in our passions (and Lord knows, they can, and do, get out of hand sometimes) we step on the toes of the "cultured" in our society. [b]Tough.[/b] Deal with it. Edited because my computer crashed. It's Cuban too! [:D]
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:37:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By retrodog:
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[b]You wasted a lot of time setting up an example about similar occurances happening in the US as if it would make a difference to me. It would not.[/b] Well, you were the one who started a thread about Cubans- I was responding to your pathetic contention. I for damn sure wasn't trying to make you "care". I don't care if you do or don't. I was explaining to you why Cuban-Americans care (Keep in mind, I don't support calling anyone a "dash"-American, but it fits in this case for illustrative purposes) You didn't seem to understand. I understand how such things can easily confuse someone from Texas, but try and keep up better. [b]You could have just said to imagine if I was a Cuban exile. It is a hell of a lot easier for me to imagine that than all this crap you made up about Nader and the US.[/b] So, all you can really do to refute what I have said is to tell me that you are easily confised. Well, here's a simpler paralel that maybe even you can understand. Castro Run Cuba [:(] Castro Bad [:(] Cubans have no choice but to leave [:(] Cubans come to US, and make good lives for themselves [@:D] But Cubans still miss things in Cuba [:(] So, Cubans complain about something that deserves complaint [>(] Retrodog not understand [?][?] [b]Then you spend all this time telling me what a dick that Castro is. HELLO, anybody in there (as I tap on your head), we all know he is a dick. Never said anything different.[/b] ROTFLMAO! So, lemme get this straight. You understand Castro is a dick, but you are too patently stupid to understand why Cuban-Americans complain about him? JESUS! HELLO!!!!! CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS? ANYONE? Put two and two together, Einstien. They have a reason to complain. But you can't seem to understand why. It'z kalled edjookayshon. Luk intoo it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:43:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:48:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2001 5:50:00 AM EST by USNA91]
Originally Posted By JLA: Hmmmm.... I think I have a picture somewhere that relates to this topic... now, if I could just find it... [stick]
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You're right, JLA: They keep beating us down, but we keep getting back up! Stubborn little bastards! [:D] Viva Cuba Libre!
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 5:57:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr: [red]I vote for taking care of our immediate goal,which is preventing and fighting terrorism on our land and abroad; and worry about a 42 year old problem .............later.[/red]
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Amen.
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