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Posted: 10/1/2001 6:21:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2001 8:44:30 PM EST by Colt-653]
There seems to be a lot of confusion on what an MSA Advantage 1000 respirator should cost and what filters are NBC rated. The following info is from years of personal experience with the MSA Advantage 1000 in both Law Enforcement and HAZMAT response. The face piece is NBC rated. For added protection you need to use the polycarbonate lens shield(Part #806462) as the lens is not very scratch resistant and doesn't stand up to repeated chemical attacks. There are 2 cartridges that are NBC rated one civilian and one Military/LE The civilian cartridge is part#815366 The Military/LE cartridge is part # 817590 Cost for above is $14.50-$30 per pair. Unless you have part #813341 ( Canister-Cap to use a single side cartridge) you need to use 2 canisters. The mask has a MSRP of $185 but they sell for $88.50- $115.00. Unless you like getting ripped off don't pay more then 30% above that price or roughly $149.50. The face pieces don't come with cartridges so you need to figure that into the overall cost when purchasing this mask. Shop around as there are 1000's of these on the market. Currently MSA is mass producing this mask as fast as they can for Law Enforcement and civilian purchase. Units are expected to reach market in 2-3 weeks.
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 6:34:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2001 6:30:24 PM EST by cnatra]
THX
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 9:26:16 PM EST
BTT
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 10:57:53 PM EST
Boomstick. I can vouch for ASOD. They are very knowledgeable and very trustworthy! I took 2 of their First Responder / Fire-Rescue courses and also host some of their web stuff. (I actually do it at n/c because I believe in the educational value of the site) I have a few masks myself. The M95 is by far the best but is not the only decent mask out there. The M40 is great and so is the MCU/2P. MSA makes some great gear. Especially their SCBA's. I am VERY familiar with these because we have 'em on our rescue trucks. I don't know much about the Advantage 1000 but, if it's like the rest of their products, it's probably a great mask. I just don't know if it's NBC rated. I think the 2000 IS NBC rated though.... (If it's got a 40mm NATO threaded filter, just get a M95 or C2A1 filter for it.) The Israeli stuff is total crap. I have a few that I have set up w/ M95 filters (yes -- they do fit) for my in-laws, but don't think I'd trust MY life to 'em. ASOD has sold more than 2000 masks in the past 2 weeks and has actually stopped selling product because of lack of availability. The director, Jade Edwards, e-mailed me a note stating that they are only selling protective gear to their existing students now. (I'm kinda glad my dept. shelled out the $250 for the courses -- hehehe) I really don't believe that this is fair to all of the folk who need protective gear but do not have the time (and/or $$) to take their classes. Goatboy and I just ordered some M95's from Botach. (yeah.. I KNOW! -- they are the most unreliable firm ever.!) They supposedly shipped 'em out this week but are now backordered for 3 months. Although I firmly believe in obtaining protective gear, it might not really benefit you if you have no notice of an impending event. We live close to NYC and my brother lives right next to the WTC "Ground Zero Pit", so I feel that I'd rather be safe than sorry. I don't think that I'd be as motivated if we lived in Nebraska or some other desolate area. BTW: Masks are NOT the panacea that you might think that they are. You need training, proper mask/filter, other gear, etc... (and it might not be a bad idea to stock up on some antibiotics -- doxycycline and cipro are the "best" broad-spectrum antibiotics -- e-mail me if you want dosage/treatment charts) Here's a GREAT site for NBC info: [url]www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/HomePage/WhatsNew/MedAspects/contents.html[/url] We are contemplating adding a "Survival" forum here. Does anyone think that there would be any interest in this? (we'd try to get Jade Edwards to moderate it and be available for assistance and info) He was a chief Army NBC Instructor and left the military after getting injured during the Gulf War. (I screwed up and posted that he was a Marine a while back and got yelled at) [:D]
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 11:05:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boom Stick: It seems they have a few running around on thier forums to raise the "fear factor". So I'm glad to see people from LE or military posting the truth about prices and items.
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Oops... forgot about this. Yup. I saw some of the posts on the message board. Those guys are really legit and never pressure anyone into buying gear. (hell -- their mask prices for the micronel m95 are better than most other sources -- and they give you instruction, etc...) As far as I can gather, "Gasmaster" is one of their instructors and "ASOD" is Jade Edwards. Another place to find product is Life Safety Systems. (but they only sell to LEO / Military and require credentials to be faxed in before purchase) www.lifesafetysys.com AND Botach: www.botachtactical.com (very sleazy but good prices) AND For the worst pricing in the world: http://www.civiliangasmasks.com/ ($75 for a $9 Israeli civilian mask) Yikes ! Hey -- another thought -- the C4 Canadian masks are supposed to be fairly good and the price is pretty good on these. (around 50-70 bucks?) Just make sure to get good filters. (the C2A1 or M95)
Link Posted: 10/1/2001 11:15:49 PM EST
I own a pair of these MSA advantage 1000's with additional polycarbonate tinted outer lens. Very well constructed, IMO. But surely no M95. WORD OF CAUTION TO ALL AR/Long Rifle owners: It's impossible to establish proper cheek weld with this mask!!! Can't see through my TAO1NSN, Aimpoint Comp M/XD, or regular iron sights. Handgun use is just fine, though. If I had to do it again I would have gone for the M95. Got mine from Botach (before they sold out)and had no problems whatsoever with the order. -jsr75
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 4:20:40 AM EST
i think the "survival" forum would be a good idea. maybe with a different name though...to avoid the stereotype.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 4:24:03 AM EST
oh yea..RBAD, thanks for all of the info in your post.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:18:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:42:20 AM EST
Actually-my team went to the MSA 1000 mask after trying out several different types. They work extremely well for us for cheek weld with shoulder weapons....with the exception on sniper rifles. Maybe the additional hard face cover creates the cheekweld problems mentioned. Colt 653- MSA just gives us the #1502 canister for the 1000 (the catalog says #1666 for the Millenium model). I think the difference is that MSA has just recently changed its coding and one of us has the old codes. I do have a list of the gas/nbc stuff the MSA 100 protects against. Question for you though: is the mask without the extra face shield more at risk due to a caustic nature of some NBC stuff?? We do have the face shields also. Thanks for any info. Boomstick- a guess here- but as most filters contain activated charcoal as an element, I would hazard a guess (GUESS) that this may be subject to longevity issues.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 5:47:05 AM EST
Boomstick: I hate having to constantly defend ASOD, but feel it's necessary because I know them and trust almost anything that Jade says. I am no expert in this field by any stretch of the imagination. I just tend to get the "best" when it comes to buying things to protect myself or my family. (and when it comes to buying cool toys & guns too!) I'm figuring that with a minimum shelf life of 20 years for the mask and 10 years for the filter, it's a pretty cheap investment. Even if it's just for "peace of mind". Heck -- I am also contemplating buying gold coins for TSHTF, so I might not be the most stable individual to consult on these matters. [:D] [b]Use whatever products you desire ![/b] If you do not live in a "high probability target" area, you probably shouldn't even bother buying anything... You keep claiming "it's about $$" , yet ASOD isn't even offering any products for sale to non-students ! Duh.. As a matter of fact, it's almost impossible to find any M95 or M40 masks for sale right now. (the ONLY reason why we bothered ordering from Botach) And... you state that the military rotates stock, etc... The Israeli CIVILIAN mask is NOT the Israeli Military mask. (the military one actually looks pretty good -- provided it is equipped w/ a good quality filter) Give it a rest already.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 6:10:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2001 6:07:04 AM EST by Boom Stick]
Originally Posted By RBAD: Boomstick: Give it a rest already.
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I was aking a question to get an answer. I was not trying to start a "flame war". I hope ASOD student's dont get that reaction to questions.
You keep claiming "it's about $$" , yet ASOD isn't even offering any products for sale to non-students ! Duh..
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From what I remember, they were offering products to non-students, and I believe they said they would offer them to non-students again after they caught up on inventory. [b][i]It is[/b][/i] about money, otherwise you (and myself) would not be concerned about procuring raw currency for hard times. Again, I am looking for data and proof concerning outdated NBC filters and their serviceability. Thank you for the info and the alternate links to buy equipment, but there is no need to be snide with me for requesting proof. If you do not have that information readly available, or can not point me in the right direction....just say so.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 7:03:37 AM EST
Sorry about that... I didn't mean to be snide. When you mentioned the $$, I mistakenly thought that you were inferring that the ASOD guys were just trying to panic people in order to derive a huge profit. I wish I could give you better advice, but I'm not really an expert in the equipment end of NBC preparedness... Heck. ANYTHING is better protection than nothing. I also think it's just as prudent to invest in antibiotics too. I've gotta figure that the pharmacies would be innundated if anything really did occur. If I remember correctly -- (I have the bio-charts somewhere here in my office -- they might be dated though) 100mg of Doxycycline x3 per day for a period of 60 days should be somewhat effective against anthrax. (that's alot of drugs though..) Just another thought on the mask issue... Did you consider contacting the original mfg of the Israeli masks/filters? (is the info written in the documentation?) They might have more detailed instructions and/or effective expiration data on their products.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 7:29:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2001 7:28:18 AM EST by Boom Stick]
Originally Posted By RBAD: Sorry about that... I didn't mean to be snide.
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Thank you for clarifying that, it is much appreciated! [:)] I know that facilities normaly relied on for medical attention will be swamped, or non-existant. I am currently putting togather a list of things I need for a medical kit; antibiotics, pain killers and NBC treatments included. I have never heard of Doxycycline for an anthrax treatment. Can you e-mail me info about it?!?! As far as the documentation on the filters, it's all in German, and I haven't had it translated yet. There are lot numbers and dates though. The mask is even worse..it's all in Hebrew! [%|] I can only take comfort that all the stuff is bran new and was handled/stored well. (That is only evident by the unscathed packaging and the items themselves are practically untouched) Heck, most of my food storage is going to be out of date in 10 or so years, but kept in a cool dry place it can easly last 2x's that. Get back to me about the anthrax treatment. Thanks! [edited because any smiley using a "d" in it's code wont work!]
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 11:34:21 AM EST
Ha ! I've got something you DON'T HAVE ! The translation to the hebrew mask instructions. hehehehe (got it from a surplus army/navy store) I just e-mailed it to ya along w/ the doxy info.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 3:39:47 PM EST
The Polycarbonate lens outskirt provides additional protection against impact and chemical attack.For LE use you will need to install the lens outskirt. The 2 filters I know are NBC rated are the following: Miltary/LE MSA # 817590 Civilian MSA # 815366 The mask will not accept the NATO 40mm filter with out a special adaptor(limited availability) A WORD OF WARNING on the Advantage 1000 if the face piece was made between July 1998 and September of 1999 the mask is subject to recall as the lens piece can and will separate.
Link Posted: 10/2/2001 4:14:32 PM EST
Colt- I simply can not find those numbers on the Def-tec site???? I called and asked them and I was told and faxed the sheet for the 1502 canister which is NBC rated. I took this off their website: Chemical Agent & Biological Canisters (Filters) Part ID Title Description Old DT Code Old FL Co 1502 Single Canister #69 Mask 69F 69F 1503 Single Canister #68 & #67 Masks 68F 68F That's from the Def-Tec master reference chart. Where are those numbers listed? Are they MSA numbers that Def-tec puts on as their number? I just want to confirm what we have is what will work-thanks for any assistance.
Link Posted: 10/3/2001 6:21:18 PM EST
Mike_T The product numbers I'm using are MSA #'s, Def-Tec doesn't make the Advantage 1000. Def-tec and Aardvark sell/sold the MSA Advantage 1000 as part of their product line starting back around 1996/97. These face pieces need to be checked for leaks around the lens.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 2:15:51 AM EST
HOLD THE PRESSES!!!! Anything is NOT better than nothing!!! A respirator facepiece will not do you any good if: You have any more than 24 hours growth of facial hair, or any facial hair in the sealing area of the respirator (wouldn't work for the taliban) And if you haven't been quantitatively fit-tested for the respirator, chances are it will leak on you. I do fit tests every day, 1 in 3 people arent wearing their respirator correctly, aren't wearing it at the right tension, are wearing the WRONG respirator, or just don't fit into the brand of respirator they've selected. The money is better spent somewhere else than on preparedness for chemicals which wouldn't give you any warning anyway. Sarin gas is colorles and odorless in lethal concentrations. Are you going to live your whole life in a Level A suit? Have you ever tried shooting a rifle with a facepiece on? DO you know how long your cartridges are good for and what chemicals they are good for? Do the research before you spend the money folks.
Link Posted: 10/4/2001 2:28:36 AM EST
CHemical weapons links everyone should see: http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/weap.html http://www.epa.gov/swercepp/ehs/firstaid/107448.txt http://www.3m.com/market/safety/ohes2/html/respirator_notice.html
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 9:07:19 PM EST
The following places have Advantage 1000's in stock or will shortly Brenton Safety $95 Advantage 1000/$159 NBC model Grainger $95+ 20 for cartridges Lab Safety $132 without cartridges If you're buying filters the only civilian cartridge that is NBC rated is part # 815366 otherwise you need to order the Military/LE cartridge #817590. If you order the LE cartridge you need part number #813341 installed(Cartridge cap) or you will have to purchase 2 filters.
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