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OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:39:10 PM
Can anyone tell me if tracer ammo is harmful to you rife, and if so, what are the negative effects of firing tracer ammo? I have about 100+ round of .223 tracer ammo and would like to know if it will harm my Mini-14 rifle.

Thanx!
boarslayer15
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:43:46 PM
Oh no....
Geof_s
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:46:01 PM
I can't think of any way 100 rounds of tracers would harm a Mini-14. Sure won't hurt the accuracy.
The_Beer_Slayer
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:47:05 PM
just clean it afterwards and it will be fine.

but really could anything really hurt a mini?
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jkstexas2001

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
If bigfoot makes it through 90 rounds of .223, 45 rounds of 9mm, and one sharp KaBar... he deserves my anal virginity.
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:47:41 PM
"Oh no"???

Has this topic been discussed previously? I'm rather new here and didn't see it posted anywhere in the forum.
GeorgiaBII
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:50:30 PM
Heh ignore the oh no'ers. Yeah its a common question answer is no it won't hurt your rifle.
boarslayer15
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:51:25 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
"Oh no"???

Has this topic been discussed previously? I'm rather new here and didn't see it posted anywhere in the forum.


It's just that minis get hammered pretty hard around here.

Welcome to the fold.

If you don't have an AR yet, you might not understand the mini thing yet. Nobody's perfect!
The_Beer_Slayer
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:52:04 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
"Oh no"???

Has this topic been discussed previously? I'm rather new here and didn't see it posted anywhere in the forum.


no the topic is fine,

you'll just find the mini doesn't get much respect around here.
TBS is an island of Sanity in a sea of bullshit.
jkstexas2001

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
If bigfoot makes it through 90 rounds of .223, 45 rounds of 9mm, and one sharp KaBar... he deserves my anal virginity.
USMC88-93
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:57:46 PM
[Last Edit: 4/15/2007 9:59:53 PM by USMC88-93]
No it may not have been specifically mentioned (Mini-14 + tracer) but your topic has a few things going for it that some here will jump on. Listed below

1. Its your first post, therefore some here will welcome you with open arms (and brains) and others will jump all over you assuming you are asking stupid questions that have been answered a thousand times before.

2. You mentioned the Mini-14 some here like it some don't and are very vocal about it.

3. You mentioned tracer ammunition. While not specific to your rifle the topic of how they shoot or if they cause damage is a fairly regular topic.

My suggestion if you are so inclined is purchase a team membership and search the archives. The search feature for a non member is somewhat limited. Other than that shoot your ammunition without worry and clean your rifle normally (read good) afterwards.

Other than that welcome to the site and if you shoot regularly look in the home town forums for people to shoot with in your area.

Oh and depending on the source of your tracer ammunition and its age don't expect all of it to light up.
Duffy:...Typical symptom: flinch at buying $3 can of tuna, but spend $1500 on a scope and call it "a great deal because it normally sells for $1800 .....Duffy

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Small_Arms_Collector
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:57:58 PM
It won't hurt anything, but it is dirty, it will leave "tracer goop" in the barrel, and over time can effect accuracy, and it's a pain to clean, but you can do it. If you do use them do the same thing the millitary does load 1 tracer every fifth round so you have 4 regular rounds, a tracer, 4 more regular rounds, them another tracer, and so on, this does 2 things:

1: It conserves tracers (and reduces the "line" back to you.).

2: It reduces the amount of "tracer goop", and the 4 regular rounds between them should get rid of most if not all the goop there is.
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 9:58:26 PM
Thank you for your replies. I always clean my firearms when I go to the shooting range,... even if I don't happen to shoot them that day!

I bought this stuff at a gun show recently and the seller stated that it wouldn't harm my rifle. But as I listened to him talk to other buyers of his ammunition, he seemed to want to say anything to make the sale, so I became skeptical. A few of my shooting buddies said that it should be o.k. if I don't shoot alot of it, but I wanted to make sure they (and the seller ) were correct.

And yes, I'm well aware of it's accuracy compared to other .223 caliber firearms, as well as, it's ability to fire almost any .223/5.56x49mm ammo.

Thank you again for your replies!
Slain
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:08:54 PM
[Last Edit: 4/15/2007 10:09:23 PM by Slain]
Mini-14s would be OK if humanity is every faced with a zombie like uprising of junked cars & abandoned appliances
danno-in-michigan
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:22:00 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
Thank you for your replies. I always clean my firearms when I go to the shooting range,... even if I don't happen to shoot them that day!

I bought this stuff at a gun show recently and the seller stated that it wouldn't harm my rifle. But as I listened to him talk to other buyers of his ammunition, he seemed to want to say anything to make the sale, so I became skeptical. A few of my shooting buddies said that it should be o.k. if I don't shoot alot of it, but I wanted to make sure they (and the seller ) were correct.

And yes, I'm well aware of it's accuracy compared to other .223 caliber firearms, as well as, it's ability to fire almost any .223/5.56x49mm ammo.

Thank you again for your replies!


In addition to whatever other accuracy problems it might have, the 1/9 twist in a mini might not stabilize a tracer round. But you should be able to figure out fairly quickly whether the rounds are stabilizing if you see the tracers veering off in unusual directions or keyholing the target.
ecgRN
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:30:40 PM
Another potential problem may be inadvertent fire starting.

Be VERY CAREFUL where you shoot, and bring an extinguisher.
"Familiarity and prolonged exposure without incident leads to a loss of appreciation of risk." Dr. Ken Kalmer. Mt. Everest MD, 1996 Expedition.
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OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:33:27 PM
Hmmm,... I see what you mean about mentioning "Mini-14"in this forum! lol

I bought my Mini-14s because they were affordable (for me), and if I could afford to pay the "big bucks" for a Bu$hma$ter rifle I might have bought 3 minis! What can I say? I like my Mini-14s, they shoot well enough for me, and I always "get it on the paper" so to speak. However, if I were into competition shooting then I would buy a Colt, Bu$hma$ter or similar rifle for its intended accuracy.

I guess that's enough Mini-14 talk for tonight.
Keith_J
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:41:35 PM
Depends on the type of tracer. M855 tracers will be interesting from a 1:9 twist Mini 14 .

M196 tracers will stabilize in the 1:9" twist as they were designed for 1:12".


But here is the real kicker. M196 starts in the barrel and can leave corrosive deposits in the bore/gas system. And the gas system, despite what people think, will get fouled.

M855 tracers will not stabilize well in a Mini unless at high altitude, high temperatres. This will make richottes MUCH more dangerous with respect to impact area and fire. But they are a lot cleaner, using a delayed ignition method where a thin copper cup isolates the ignitor comp from the barrel. The ignitor comp will not burn at high pressures. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the loss of pressure expels the thin copper cup, allowing ignition. This is how the delayed trace works and partially offsets one of Murphy's Laws of Combat. That being "Tracers work, in both directions."
The climate is chaotic. Evolution in chaos requires a level of intrinsic stability, capable of absorbing catastrophic pertubations. To believe otherwise is to inject a pseudo-religion into science.
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:43:25 PM

Originally Posted By ecgRN:
Another potential problem may be inadvertent fire starting.

Be VERY CAREFUL where you shoot, and bring an extinguisher.


Thank you,.. I am well aware of the fire starting capabilities of tracer ammo, and our shooting range is designed with this in mind (i.e. brush-free zones). The outdoor rifle range has thick earthen mounds for adequate backstops, and the brush is cleared every spring and fall to minimize any fire danger. I also have a fire extinguisher in my Jeep (can I say "Jeep" here?) just in case!
USMC88-93
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:46:40 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
fire extinguisher in my Jeep (can I say "Jeep" here?) just in case!


<<<-----------
Duffy:...Typical symptom: flinch at buying $3 can of tuna, but spend $1500 on a scope and call it "a great deal because it normally sells for $1800 .....Duffy

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OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:52:59 PM
[Last Edit: 4/15/2007 10:54:29 PM by OutlawBiker13]

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Depends on the type of tracer. M855 tracers will be interesting from a 1:9 twist Mini 14 .

M196 tracers will stabilize in the 1:9" twist as they were designed for 1:12".


But here is the real kicker. M196 starts in the barrel and can leave corrosive deposits in the bore/gas system. And the gas system, despite what people think, will get fouled.

M855 tracers will not stabilize well in a Mini unless at high altitude, high temperatres. This will make richottes MUCH more dangerous with respect to impact area and fire. But they are a lot cleaner, using a delayed ignition method where a thin copper cup isolates the ignitor comp from the barrel. The ignitor comp will not burn at high pressures. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the loss of pressure expels the thin copper cup, allowing ignition. This is how the delayed trace works and partially offsets one of Murphy's Laws of Combat. That being "Tracers work, in both directions."


The boxes are brown and marked "Talon Manufacturing Co. Inc. 5.56 Tracer 20 round". I believe they are M855 tracers. I also have a few white boxes that say M196. Looks like I may have both types!
danno-in-michigan
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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:56:45 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
Hmmm,... I see what you mean about mentioning "Mini-14"in this forum! lol

I bought my Mini-14s because they were affordable (for me), and if I could afford to pay the "big bucks" for a Bu$hma$ter rifle I might have bought 3 minis! What can I say? I like my Mini-14s, they shoot well enough for me, and I always "get it on the paper" so to speak. However, if I were into competition shooting then I would buy a Colt, Bu$hma$ter or similar rifle for its intended accuracy.

I guess that's enough Mini-14 talk for tonight.


I don't hate Minis - they're good clean fun. But the reason the .mil went with a 1/7 twist was to stabilize the M856 tracer so if you're trying to shoot those out of a 1/9 barrel (whether it's a Mini-14, an AR-15 variant or whatever) the bullets might not stabilize.
Keith_J
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:04:29 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Depends on the type of tracer. M855 tracers will be interesting from a 1:9 twist Mini 14 .

M196 tracers will stabilize in the 1:9" twist as they were designed for 1:12".


But here is the real kicker. M196 starts in the barrel and can leave corrosive deposits in the bore/gas system. And the gas system, despite what people think, will get fouled.

M855 tracers will not stabilize well in a Mini unless at high altitude, high temperatres. This will make richottes MUCH more dangerous with respect to impact area and fire. But they are a lot cleaner, using a delayed ignition method where a thin copper cup isolates the ignitor comp from the barrel. The ignitor comp will not burn at high pressures. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle, the loss of pressure expels the thin copper cup, allowing ignition. This is how the delayed trace works and partially offsets one of Murphy's Laws of Combat. That being "Tracers work, in both directions."


The boxes are brown and marked "Talon Manufacturing Co. Inc. 5.56 Tracer 20 round". I believe they are M855 tracers. I also have a few white boxes that say M196. Looks like I may have both types!


Red or orange paint? M196 are red
The climate is chaotic. Evolution in chaos requires a level of intrinsic stability, capable of absorbing catastrophic pertubations. To believe otherwise is to inject a pseudo-religion into science.
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:05:15 PM

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:

I don't hate Minis - they're good clean fun. But the reason the .mil went with a 1/7 twist was to stabilize the M856 tracer so if you're trying to shoot those out of a 1/9 barrel (whether it's a Mini-14, an AR-15 variant or whatever) the bullets might not stabilize.


Thank you, Danno, and all of you who responded to my questions. I was hoping that the tracer ammo would help me see how well I was shooting (overall) without having to check the targets with my spotting scope after every shot or two. I guess it wasn't worth the money or trouble. Oh well,... live and learn!
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:12:07 PM

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:

Red or orange paint? M196 are red


All the tips appear to be red, but on some of them the red is flaking off or is worn.
Keith_J
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:15:12 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:

Red or orange paint? M196 are red


All the tips appear to be red, but on some of them the red is flaking off or is worn.


M196! You are GTG, just clean after use. They will not DAMAGE the barrel, only DIRTY it.

Clean the gas system too. It will corrode.
The climate is chaotic. Evolution in chaos requires a level of intrinsic stability, capable of absorbing catastrophic pertubations. To believe otherwise is to inject a pseudo-religion into science.
Glock_10mm
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:19:39 PM
Hey if you don't want them anymore I'll take 'em!

Also, where are you getting a Mini-14 for $300? I want one of them too! (you said 3 Mini's or one Bushy)
"You'd learn more about the world by lying on the couch and drinking gin out of a bottle than by watching the news". - Garrison Keillor
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:19:57 PM
Thank you one and all for your technical assistance, advice, comments, and good-natured kidding. I appreciate all of your responses. However, the storm here in Maine is getting worse and the lights have flickeres a few times, so we might be losing power sometime soon.

I'll be back again with more questions some other day, but until then,.. thank-you and good night!
OutlawBiker13
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:27:35 PM

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
Hey if you don't want them anymore I'll take 'em!

Also, where are you getting a Mini-14 for $300? I want one of them too! (you said 3 Mini's or one Bushy)


To answer this last question, I'll keep the tracers and try them out next time I go to the shooting range. Regarding the cost of my 2 minis, we get some good deals at area gun shows in Maine. My first Mini-14 (Ranch rifle) cost me $350 and it was in great shape (mfg. '85). My second Mini-14 is the standard Mini-14 (mfg. '78) and it cost me $325. It was a bit dirty and the stock had a few well-worn scratches, but after both were cleaned well and oiled they looked and worked great! Bu$hma$ter rifles go for $1,200 to $1,500 + at the shows, depending on type and if you can find one, and now they cost even more since Dick Dyke sold the assembly business in Windham, Maine to another party.

Gotta go now. Thanks again!
Keith_J
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:31:41 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
Thank you one and all for your technical assistance, advice, comments, and good-natured kidding. I appreciate all of your responses. However, the storm here in Maine is getting worse and the lights have flickeres a few times, so we might be losing power sometime soon.

I'll be back again with more questions some other day, but until then,.. thank-you and good night!


Hey, it is storming? Shoot them now! No fire issues
The climate is chaotic. Evolution in chaos requires a level of intrinsic stability, capable of absorbing catastrophic pertubations. To believe otherwise is to inject a pseudo-religion into science.
Glock_10mm
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Posted: 4/15/2007 11:34:43 PM

Originally Posted By OutlawBiker13:
Bu$hma$ter rifles go for $1,200 to $1,500 + at the shows, depending on type and if you can find one, and now they cost even more since Dick Dyke sold the assembly business in Windham, Maine to another party.


The gun show is the problem. A store should sell them for $800-1,000.
"You'd learn more about the world by lying on the couch and drinking gin out of a bottle than by watching the news". - Garrison Keillor