Old M-16 still in service.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Old M-16 still in service.

Posted: 9/23/2001 4:29:53 PM EDT

A burial detail from Ft. Knox came in this afternoon and wanted to store their weapons in our arsenal until the funeral tomorrow. I checked them out and all of them have Colt M-16A1 lowers that have been over stamped A2 and where it used to say "auto" has been milled out and stamped "burst". One was marked Colt AR15 and XM-16E1 but over stamped A2 the serial number is 557163, most of the others are in the 5 million range. I wonder when it was made? I was never issued an M-16A2, when I was in we still had A1's. I wondered if they kept the old A1 lowers. Sorry, I can't post a picture and I have no idea who died.

Posted: 9/23/2001 4:40:40 PM EDT

[#1]

we had colt ar15 in full auto 2nd 117/fa

Posted: 9/23/2001 4:43:26 PM EDT

[#2]

I'll never forget the A1's we had in the weapons classroom part of Air Force Basic. They had been handled/cleaned so much they had absolutly no finish left,and shined like chrome.

Posted: 9/23/2001 4:48:15 PM EDT

[#3]

I don't believe they issue such conversions to front line troops for use in combat. I don't know this for certain, I guess I'm just hoping this is the case more than anything.

The A2 has a reinforced lower so it's visibly different than a M16 or M16A1. Such a conversion is pretty crappy... but it's interesting that you noticed this. Pretty cool actually. Who would have guessed Uncle Sam was so tight? [:D]

Posted: 9/23/2001 4:50:54 PM EDT

[#4]

they take the old A1s and hack them into half assed A2s. its kinda sad. i hear some of um really look bad.

Posted: 9/23/2001 5:08:21 PM EDT

[#5]

A lot of A1s were converted to A2s. The rest were given (yes given, see www.fas.org) to countries like Israel, the Phillippines (sp?), etc.

Posted: 9/23/2001 5:12:28 PM EDT

[#6]

I was surprised to see that one of the over stamped A1's have the reinforcing rib where the butt stock attaches. It is very clearly an A1 that they stamped a 2 over the 1. These are rough looking rifles, but about average for U.S.G.I. rifles. I forgot to mention that they checked in an M-9 pistol as well, also a rough looking piece.

Posted: 9/23/2001 5:28:06 PM EDT

[#7]

I heard that the Air Force had their M16A1s "upgraded" to M16A2s and did not buy any new weapons. Every Army unit I served with (AD, NG and Reserves) got new M16A2s when they made the switch, either Colt or FN. My understanding is that the Marines switched all of their M16A1s for A2s in the mid 80s (about 85-86) all at once for new Colts.

I had not heard of any Army units with M16A1s rebuilt as A2s, especially from FT Campbell. The main unit at Campbell is the 101st, They were one of the first Army units to switch to A2s, and new ones at that. Even Basic Training units switched to new A2s about 10 years ago. Are you sure it wasn't an Air Force unit?

Posted: 9/23/2001 5:57:37 PM EDT

[#8]

The Marines did change the M16A1 for brand new Colt M16A2's in the early to mid 1980's. I was in from 81-86 and had the A1 for a few years, then around 1985 our whole base was issued A2's, brand new in a cardboard box, and they still had packing grease on them. They had the operators manual also. I had some really used A1's before. The staff NCO's always told us that most of our equipment was from the Army, after they used it and it became unservicable, the Marines got it. Some of the A1's that I had fit that description.

Posted: 9/23/2001 7:46:22 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I had not heard of any Army units with M16A1s rebuilt as A2s, especially from FT Campbell. The main unit at Campbell is the 101st, They were one of the first Army units to switch to A2s, and new ones at that. Even Basic Training units switched to new A2s about 10 years ago. Are you sure it wasn't an Air Force unit?

View Quote

Positive they were Army, I spent 4 years active USMC and 4 years Army National Guard. I saw their uniforms hanging in the Govt. van, helped them off load and carry in the rifles(7) and spoke with them. They were cav. from Ft. Knox. And you know I examined the rifles very closely after they left[:)]. These were converted M-16A1's, and one converted XM-16E1.

Posted: 9/23/2001 10:20:10 PM EDT

[#10]

I was in 2/10 cav in Ft Knox in '87 I can tell you that we did have Vietnam era M16s. Prolly the same ones made over.

Posted: 9/23/2001 10:56:43 PM EDT

[#11]

The lower reinforcements were added with the M16A1. The non-reinforced lowers were sold off as AR15s (SP1s). People get confused because the Colt AR15s didn't get the reinforcement until the AR15A2s, but M16A1s had them all along.

-Troy

Posted: 9/24/2001 9:15:17 AM EDT

[#12]

When I was at Ft. Knox, we still saw a few pre-A1's. They were used as training rifles. The Air Force at nearby Eglin AFB, and Hurlburt Field, converted about 20,000 (this was the number I was given by someone involved in the conversion/destruction process) Air Force A1-no FA, to A2 and M4. They put the A1 uppers into a Captain Crunch type machine, along with ten's of thousands of often pristine 30 rd. pre-ban magazines.

Posted: 9/24/2001 12:48:37 PM EDT

[#13]

I can't speak for what the Regular Army did(or didn't) do with the M16s they issue but I can tell you that Ohio National Guard units were isssued rebuilt M16A1s converted like Sukebe describes. I was NCOIC on the zero range summer of '99 and some of these weapons were less than reliable. There are always some weapons every year that don't function well but the percentage of these "A2"s was much greater than the old A1s that some companies in our Battalion still had. I retired at the end of '99 so I can't say if any corrective action was taken(I doubt it)to solve the problem. Now of course I kind of wish I had stayed but not many 50 year old guys can run with the young ones and I'm just not one of those few.

Don in Ohio

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Old M-16 still in service.

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