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5/29/2017 5:35:05 AM
Posted: 9/20/2001 6:52:18 PM EDT
We Now Have A Homeland Security Czar...Oh Joy.... ...Just what we need....like we need a National Federal Dog Catcher. We have Police, Military and Intelligence Agencies to do the job of protecting the Home Land & we don't need no steenking Homeland Security Guard.... And you guys thought the BATF was Bad? Wait'll you see the new Home Land Security Forces..... [img]http://www.talkingto.co.uk/talkingto/ttgo/images/ttgo_port_2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 6:54:47 PM EDT
My thoughts exactly. Does this mean that everyone that has a gun remains part of the militia or do we become the enemy, and must be disarmed? If it comes to that could the US end up fighting terrorists and the militia?
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 6:56:02 PM EDT
The first thought in my mind: I hope this guy is pro-gun in a big way and doesn't see gun ownership as a problem. It's government expansion at its worst.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 6:58:24 PM EDT
Shakin' in my boots... Although, his state seems pretty darn gun friendly. High cap mags, class III, CCW, etc. I sure as hell wish I lived there!
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:02:35 PM EDT
I worry about these things in future administrations but don't forget, The Bush Administration has already reaffirmed the 2nd as an individual right and told the UN to take a flying leap. It don't get any better than that these days.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:05:20 PM EDT
This is a job that belongs rightfully to the Vice President. I dont think that Cheney's health permits it. Ridge, I think is a temporary appointment. Whoever gets this job should be Bush's running mate in 04 and from then on this job belongs to the Vice Pesident. It has the potential to be too intrusive into the lives of Americans to be trusted to a unelected official. And lord knows we dont need another secretary of anything with another staff and another budget...
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 7:09:14 PM EDT by Bigshooter]
This whole damn thing is really starting to make me uneasy...don't get me wrong, it was a damn fine speach and GWB is impressing the hell outta me right now, but this is beginning to sould very ominous. Government agencies don't like to relinquish funding and power. What the heck is going to happen when we're done with Bin Laden? I support blowing his ass away (along with several others around the world), but I really think this could take on a totalitarian turn. I guess we're going to take the NWO for a test drive after all. In hindsight, it seems we've been heading down the one world plauralism road for a long time. Guess we're gonna see if it really works.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:08:07 PM EDT
My first thought was that they would like to organize a volunteer force of armed citizens to patrol key areas of the nations infrastructure. Bridges,railroads etc. My Uncle said this was done during WW2. I hope this isn't a Gestapo type agency bent on demonizing gun owners. We already have BATF for that.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:10:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 7:10:09 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
I would like to see the Milita summoned too like Molitas said, especially in states that are having their National Guard units called up.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:18:26 PM EDT
This will have significant implications for immigration and the war on drugs. I think this was the biggest deal inside our borders to happen tonight and for a long time. Watch our southern border. Mexico uses the US as an escape valve for the discontented. Have you ever seen a pressure cooker go off?
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:23:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ipschoser1: I worry about these things in future administrations but don't forget, The Bush Administration has already reaffirmed the 2nd as an individual right and told the UN to take a flying leap. It don't get any better than that these days.
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My sentiments exactly. What happens if Chuck Schumer, Diane Fienstein becomes prez? The UN has scheduled itself to take another vote on this matter in 4 years.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:26:59 PM EDT
While I'm supporting the efforts of My country, I'm still watching my six. I suggest you all do the same.. Meplat-
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:31:02 PM EDT
While I share some of your worries remember, this is a STAFF position. Not a cabinet post. It is also NOT a new agency (yet). If you had been following information released you would know that this position was formed to act as a coordination and information clearing house for all the various federal and state LE agencies. We all know how much they do not like sharing information. It is not the present administrations use of this office I would worry about, but like another said, some future one.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:36:49 PM EDT
I had the same uneasiness when he said "Minister (?) for Homeland Defense." Reminded me of the 30s & 40s. Not a pleasant thought. America has changed forever. Even if we rid the entire planet of all terrorists will this nation remain the land of the free? I strongly hope so for all our sake...otherwise the bickering we have witnessed here on this board will disappear immediately & anyone with firearms...Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, etc. will have to band together...for Freedom's sake. Freedom above all else. Those friggin terrorists have hit home with a multilayered plot. Damn them to eternal hell.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:38:22 PM EDT
Or did he say Homeland Security? Either way, I hope its not what the past has shown us.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:40:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 7:40:13 PM EDT by libertarian]
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" even if the current head of homeland security is a pro-constitution kind of guy, that does not mean that some future appointee will not use it for oppression. "there is nothing more permenant than a temporary government program" -Milton Freidman this also applies to government agencies. I say it all smells like Germany straight from the 1930's. there is no way we can erradicate terroism completely. just as our "war" on drugs have not erradicated such poison from society. this war will end up being a permenant "war" that will last. it will cost us more money with each passing year. terrorism will be a constant threat to american liberties and abroad. It is naive to think that you could stop someone from hating the united States of America. much less stop them from focusing that hatred upon another person to do harm to them. I agree of course that those terrorist involved should be terminated with extreme prejuidiced. however we will never win against people who hate. hatred has existed since man's fall. never disarm......
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 7:46:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 7:47:03 PM EDT by trickshot]
Bush said "cabinet level position." I don't know what that really means exactly. If regular citizens are invited to be homeland defenders, I'll breathe easier. I don't see that happening though. There are too many laws on the books to keep us all in line. The average citizen is not trusted without background checks, etc. It's no good. As far as the border goes, I don't know what to think about that. A free society with closed borders? No such animal. All the Mexicans, Central and South Americans are already here in the tens of thousands (approx 400,000 in my state alone). I do not dislike them, but remember that just a couple weeks ago, amnesty for 3 million illegals was on the table, put there by none other than our very own president. This all reeks of New World Order, Bilderbergers and the Trilaterals, if you believe in those things (which there is good evidence for). I can't quite see through the mist and figure out what is going on, but it's more than just the events of Sept. 11. They may not have orchestrated the attack, but were planning to take advantage of it whenever it happened. Kind of like all the would-be gun controllers after Columbine. The likeness to the events describe in Orwell's "1984" are chilling. Go get a copy and read it. I plan to read it again soon. Might help me see through the haze.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 8:02:03 PM EDT
Didn't Britain (England) rearm its citizens during WWII via their Homeland Defense Force. i hope America (as per Bush's own words) follows Britain's example of what a homeland defnse force should do during war. But, I sure as hell hope we don't follow Britain's example of what to do when the war is over.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 9:02:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bolt223: We Now Have A Homeland Security Czar...Oh Joy....
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I don't know, but personally the name has not enought pazazz in it, you know what I mean?Maybe something like "minister of Interior Security" seems to have the right ring to it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 9:08:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By Bolt223: We Now Have A Homeland Security Czar...Oh Joy....
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I don't know, but personally the name has not enought pazazz in it, you know what I mean?Maybe something like "minister of Interior Security" seems to have the right ring to it.
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Will there be Interior Ministry troops, just like the Russians used in Chechnya? Oy..... "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States." ~~ Noah Webster in "An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution," 1787, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at p. 56 (New York, 1888).
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 10:16:51 PM EDT
I was watching the speech with my father and when Bush mentioned that new guy, we both looked at each other and said in unison: "KGB". Hopefully, it won't get to that. We'll have to watch this new position very closely. I don’t see a problem if it’s more of a coordination position – to keep LE and the FBI on the same page, but until I know what the deal is, I’m a little worried.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:08:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Didn't Britain (England) rearm its citizens during WWII via their Homeland Defense Force. i hope America (as per Bush's own words) follows Britain's example of what a homeland defnse force should do during war. But, I sure as hell hope we don't follow Britain's example of what to do when the war is over.
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Actually I belive a very healthy portion of firearms that the "Home Guard" used were donations from American sportsmen so in effect "we" re-armed them. Too bad the English refused to learn any lessons from this, as their "gun control" has been in high gear for quite some time. I for one am against bailing out those condemned to eternal stupidity. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:20:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matrix: Or did he say Homeland Security? Either way, I hope its not what the past has shown us.
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I thought the same thing when I heard that. I really wish he had thought of a different name. Whatever happened to Civil Defense? That is a unladen term
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:32:42 PM EDT
In the other thread, PA residents said some of the crappy things that Ridge has done. [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=53769[/url]
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2001 11:45:41 PM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By trickshot: The first thought in my mind: I hope this guy is pro-gun in a big way and doesn't see gun ownership as a problem.
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I wouldn't hold my breath!! MOST Yankee GOP'rs aren't very 2nd ammendment friendly!! Giuliani & Pataki come to mind. As well as the former female Gov. of NJ , what's her name?
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:38:35 PM EDT
You guys are making a big assumption that this post will in any way have any control over the ATF and firearms law. Still doesnt mean this is all that good of a idea, but you have no evidence to back that assumption.
Link Posted: 9/20/2001 11:49:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pthfndr: [b]While I share some of your worries remember, this is a STAFF position. Not a cabinet post.[/b]
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Bush said "Cabinet Position" as it is also being reported in the news that I have seen.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:24:08 AM EDT
The biggest problem with all of this is that it has breathed renewed life into every crackpot conspiracy theorist. Oh well, at least you guys are good for a few laughs. I can hardly wait to see which one of you is first to claim that Bush had advance specific knowledge of the attacks but allowed them to occur to further his own political interests.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:35:22 AM EDT
The biggest problem with all of you BIG GOVERNMENT LOVERS is that it has breathed new life into wanting more agencies to interfere in Constitutional rights. Oh well, at least you guys are getting the police state you always wanted to live under.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:55:18 AM EDT
And perhaps the best news is that you crackpots will singlehandedly revitalize our aluminum industry up here in the Pacific Northwest. They're probably going to have work overtime to keep up with the demand for foil wrap.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 12:55:35 AM EDT
...perpare for the worst, hope for the best. That's all I can say. Tyler
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 8:54:21 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:18:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: You guys are making a big assumption that this post will in any way have any control over the ATF and firearms law. Still doesnt mean this is all that good of a idea, but you have no evidence to back that assumption.
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Call me paranoid, but "I have been there, done that." It fits their typical M.0. In the past 15 years in battling the anti-gunners, you have to stay ahead of the curve. Once it affects you personally, its too late. Judging by Hillary Clinton's & Chuck Schumer's body language during Geo. W's speech, things are not what they seem in Mudville. Don't under estimate the antis. If things are not going their way in the future, instant results can be obtained, by changing a few words here and there; gun owners could be defined as terrorists.
Link Posted: 9/21/2001 9:34:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2001 9:34:28 AM EDT by Bat21]
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By Matrix: Or did he say Homeland Security? Either way, I hope its not what the past has shown us.
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I thought the same thing when I heard that. I really wish he had thought of a different name. Whatever happened to Civil Defense? That is a unladen term
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I remember the real "Civil Defense" back when we practiced what to do in case of "Nuclear Attack" back in the 1950's and 1060's. Go down to your local "Civil Defense" office (usually in a court house) and see what kind of pamphlets they have and what is the "Game Plan"?? I went to the one down here about 20 years ago (as I was always' into that) and it was a joke!!!! I havn't heard a "Siren Test" for years. Most people would not know what to do if a Siren went off. Rest assured. 99.9% of the nation is not particularly prepared for any national emergency (except for AR15.com members) I guess "FEMA" is our "Civil Defense" now, you know, helping out people who build houses on the banks of rivers, that are forever attempting to regain their original channels or flood plains.
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