The "repeat strike" point is often overlooked.  It is what you will do under duress, no matter how trained you are to do otherwise.  Your brain has to know that you are not the "error" and you will pull the trigger a second time to verify.

All the other reasons stated are valid and good points, too.

[:)] Compromise...how about a 9mm 1911 [grenade]

2 to the Body.  One to the Head.

El Presidente'.

If you fire once you are a fool.

Zaz

"My favorite Quote from a friend who served with a branch of America's Special Forces: A 9mm is just a .45 set on "stun". POSTED BY PITVIPER

Let's see him take a 9mm to the chest and call it "stun"

Well you can't even title it "9mm" without the .45 guys crawling out of the woodwork. Come on guys, can't you start your own thread. It's easy, just go to the top and select it. Then you just have to type a title. I'll get you started with one: "Why I like my .45 so much."

There now you guys can go start your own. harharharhar

"The ideal law enforcement handgun might be something like this: Polymer frame like the Glock, grip like the Browning P-35, metal magazine like the Beretta 92, takedown lever like the SIG P226, ambidextrous magazine release like the Ruger, a loaded chamber indicator like the Walther, big but snag-free sights like the SIG P226, cocking indicator like the Mauser, a grip safety like a Colt Model 1911, no external manual safety, but many internal ones, like the Glock and SIG, for simplicity of operation. This is a rough description of the HS-2000 Auto Pistol, made for law enforcement and military use in Croatia, and imported into the United States by HS America, of Knoxville, TN." Law and Order Magazine

The HS2000 kicks ass cause it is the best of all, a piece at a time.

I believe the NY trigger is 7-8lbs.



I just bought a Glock 27, and had one malfunction in the first 200 rounds.  The .40 round caught on the feed ramp after like 75 shots.  Tapped the slide forward and it was fine for the next 125 shots.

Compared to my SW99 in .40, it's infinitely more reliable.  I had at least one failure out of every 10 shots for the first 1000 rounds with my SW99.  I even lubed the feed ramp and slide rails before my range trips, and it didn't help.  I still have malfunctions, but it's nothing a little feed ramp polishing probably wouldn't fix.

As far as Glock reliability, I'm impressed.  The gun is accurate, and one failure in 200 rounds during the break-in period isn't bad.

God Bless Texas

Personal preference is:

HK P7 (the PSP model)
SIG 210
Beretta
Browning HP
SIG Sauer P228

in that order.  Never been wild on the way the Glocks feel in my hand (although I will keep my G20)--but I can appreciate the simplicity of the design.

I'd wager that may be part of the problem, but I believe Massood Ayoob has these same triggers on his .40S&W's and doesn't mention them as a problem.  He had a recent article about "knowing your gun" in the latest Combat Handguns where he talked about knowing your weapon keeping you out of legal troubles if you ever have to shoot or have a negligent discharge.



I have an SW99, which I think is hands down ergonomically better than any Glock I've ever held.  The interchangable backstrap for a custom grip is genius, and it's a shame Glock doesn't use something similar.  With that being said, I can't depend on it to save my life because of constant malfunctions.  I've been contemplating getting rid of it and replacing it with something else.

And the reason most of us stay away from S&W is because of their politics.

God Bless Texas

P-89 Ruger.  Nine years, 3000rds and never one jam.  Planerench out.

Single Action - Hi Power
Double Action - Sig 226 or Glock 19

Glock 19 w/ Trijicons

Jamie

I have the Sig P-229 in the .40 S&W very nice gun a bit on the spendy side now days I paid about $650.00 out the door with the sig night sites I am going to pick up a P-228 well worth the extra money for a Sig I have over 6000 rounds through mine the reason that I purchased the Sig a Navy Seal buddy had one as his service pistol and stated that he had over 60,000 rounds through and the only thing that had to be replaced were the springs.

1st -HKp7
2nd -BHP
3rd -Sig 228

I love my P226.  It may be more expensive than the others, but I think it is better.  Accurate and reliable.  If you havn't fired one, it's like shooting an AR for the first time, a religous experience!

Beretta makes a good gun but it doesn't fit my hand that well.  I've also got a Glock 19 and CZ-85.

The Glocks 17/19..etc are great guns also.  Lightweight, reliable and you don't have to clean them.  

Hunduh and NYPD: My new Glock jammed a few times when I tried shooting it right out of the box also.  WTF, I thought.  I sprayed the inside of it with Rem Oil and viola, runs like a watch.  Moral of the story, always lub your new guns before shooting them.  My Glock is fun to shoot but loses accuracy after 20 yards or so when I shoot it.

Sig #1, Glock #2.

IMHO!

Spambo

There is no substitute: HKP7 M13/M8

I sport a Smith&Wesson 5946 on patrol.
Why? because NYPD screwed up a good thing by messing around with the Glock 19's...I know, I know, they just want to reduce the chances of accidental discharge BUT the Glock was well designed to be very safe anyway.

My off duty/backup choice? Originally it was the Beretta Mini-Cougar - loved it, but too big to conceal. Now I use a Glock 26. Love it even though it has the blasted 12lb NYPD trigger spring but I have yet to experience any malfunction with it so far...I guess it must be broken in or something.

If I had $$$(like a Suffolk County PD paycheck) I'd pick up an HK or SIG...[pistol]

USP 9

Can somone explain that thing with 'repeat strike'?  Forgive my ignorance, but I have never heard that term.  What was Bustmaster talking about with the followup shot and the brain thing.....It sounds like what happened to me, I just wanna know what it is and then Ill tell the story.......

Good, Wave is here....seriously now, dont take my side because were on the same job......Is there, or is there not a disturbing amount of malfunctions with the NYPD's Glocks?  Not the off duty mini's, but the Duty Guns.  How many malfunctions have you seen/had with your S+W?
One more thing Wave, what does NYPD change the Glock trigger pull to? (I forgot)

Never had a single malfunction out of my Browning HiPower. Shot lots of ammo, and lots of different kinds through it. Feels good in my hand, and doesn't jam. Does the trick for me, but everyones different.

And you can always buy jacked up 9mm loads for serious knock down power.

I love my Ruger P89.

I recently bought a Glock 19 for my CCW.

Walther P99  or P88 Compact

The Walther P38, best overall pistol ever made.

P7M13

If you're talking current production, the Berretta 92F would be my choice.

Hunduh,

Repeat strike capability is the ability to reset the hammer/striker by simply pulling the trigger. This is found on all true dao and da pistols. The glock pistol must have its slide retracted slightly in order to reset the mechinism. The advantage of this is the ability to make a quick second strike on a primer that failed to fire. I forget the actual stats, but about 85% of the time the primer will ignite and fire the cartridge on the second strike. This feature was mandatory on all pistols that entered the US gov testimg in the early 80's. This is the reason the glock was kicked out of testing. Some say the only correct way to solve a dead primer is to rack the slide and insert a new cartridge. Idealy, this would be nice to do. In the real world, however, pulling the trigger a second time is an instinct when the attacker does not stop immidiatly. If you're going to pull the trigger a second time before you try to rack the slide, why not have the possibility of it firing? It is for this reason that I will not carry a pistol with out the repeat strike capability (for defense). Don't get me wrong: I like glocks, but they're just not my first choice in a defensive pistol.

In my book, Beretta and Sig make the best 9's for absolute reliability. Glocks are #1 for durability.

I have a Ruger P94 that has always been very reliable and fairly accurate, but for shooting at paper targets and pop cans the sights are a little too big and don't allow for decent aquisition.

I have a Glock model 23 and like it a lot.  Considered picking up a 19 to match it, but after shooting mine quite a bit I've noticed excessive wear on the poly mag where it is engaged by the catch.  I can see a day where the mag won't stay latched reliably.  To me it makes sense to have hi-caps when having a 9mm, and the glocks are spendy.  I've seen aftermarket steel latches and mags, but more $$$

Just ordered a HS2000.  Been watching them for quite a while and I am fairly excited about the arrival.  All the features I have been looking for, steel mags and easily converted (and reasonably priced) high caps are available, and the price is reasonable as well!!

Hate to get too worked-up until I try it, but I have a good feeling about it.  Check out the reviews and what other people report and look one over if available.  

If all guns were made like Glocks gunsmiths would be out of business. I like the 19

Hunduh, if they had a failure rate as you describe I would strongly suspect a bad lot of ammo and being unfamilar with the gun.

Lets face it the majority of cops only ever shoot a gun when it comes time to qualify. To have such a large # of malfunctioning glocks in one place has got to be a world record.

Only time a glock ever failed me was due to a bad mag in a G23. I dont feel that if the glock wasn't as good as we all know it is it wouldn't be as popular, no matter how good the marketing.

That being said, I love the 92 Brig INOX, BHP, G17.
BrenLover

My definite favorite is my Browning HiPower. In fact I'm wearing it right now.

For a more lightweight 9mm pistol, I've been impressed with my Kel-Tec P11.

I have owned a ruger p89, Beretta 92fs, sig 226, and a several USP's.  My USP's are the best by far.  absolutely no recoil.  I competed in my first IDPA match with my USP and won it.  I beat about 12 other people.  way cool!!  the USP is awesome...
In a World of Compromise, Some Don't

Beretta 92fs.  Fits like a glove. NEVER failed so far after many, many rounds.  Feels like an extension of my arm when point-shooting.  Did I mention that it has NEVER failed.

Price - HS2000
Accuracy - HS2000
Durability - HS2000
Reliability - ...Sig P226, but uh, HS2000 hasn't failed on me yet [:)]

You know you want one,
so just get an HS2K already.

Glock 34 Tactical with M3

I do believe the problem with the NYPD and the Glocks is that we're not all gun buffs/shooters so they're probably limp wristing them. The Department issue Speer 124 GDHP +P's do kick a tiny bit more than what we used to shoot so maybe the new recruits are intimidated/not quite used to the round?

This is just my personal theory. I could be way off on this.

Hey Jewbroni,

Do you carry your HS2K chambered or not?

Yes'sir.  Carry it IWB on my right side, 16 in the magazine (converted S&W Promags with a coil cut) and 1 in the chamber.  This setup has yet to fail on me at the range through hundreds of shots, and just in case I keep a loaded factory 10rd. in the pocket.  I feel safer carrying this loaded HS2K than with another SA handgun hammer-up with the safety on.  I've been on the range and TRIED to fire the thing by constantly pulling that trigger, but unless you engage the beavertail safety it's just not going to do it.  The FP drop safety works like a charm, that's why I can (and do) trust it with my life.

SVI in 9X21mm!!

Best 9mm for feel to me, Luger P08 or Glock 17.
Also for you 45 fans, ask a dead man wether he could tell the difference between a 45 to the head or a 9mm.

My favorite is my Taurus 92C.
Reason?  It's the only hi-cap I could afford before the ban in California took place.
It shoots fine for me, of course I'm not concerned with; shooting a gnat's ass, or driving tacks, etc. I just like to hit the target in front of me and preferably in the spot I aimed for.

Read my first sentence, Monkey Boy!
(The part about Glock)
Friends don't let friends carry a 9MickeyMouse.
Face it,
Anything a puny 9mm can do , a .45ACP will do better.

"Read my first sentence, Monkey Boy!
(The part about Glock)Friends don't let friends carry a 9MickeyMouse.Face it,Anything a puny 9mm can do , a .45ACP will do better." ?Derik45

Friends don't let their friends look like an ass. Oh wait, maybe you don't have any to stop you. Sorry. Anything a .45 can do, a 9mm will do more,,,

you just put a hydrashock in the darn thing and I'll bet you that your chest couldn't tell the difference.

Oh wait, I'm all wrong. The 9mm is totally worthless. That's why it never gained any popularity. That must be why they never sold very many. I'll bet almost no one on this board even has one. And certainly no one would ever depend on such a little harmless bullet. Yeah, I see your point, they're kinda like the internet,,, just a fad that will soon prove to be of no real use.

So what's next, you gonna start telling us all about the advantages of snail mail and how much better that is too. And I guess you are still using your Betamax and listening to your 8-tracks.  Hey, can you call me a Monkey Boy too? I really love it when your momma does. :)

Actually, both the 9mm and 45ACP pre-date World War 1. The 9mm is nothing new.

I stand by my statement.
[size=5][red][b] "THE BIGGER THE HOLE, THE FASTER THE DRAIN ! "[/size=5][/red][/b]

If you have to wait for the blood to drain to incapacitate your attacker, you're really screwed.

Besides, if I wanted more power than a 9mm, I'd just get a 10mm.

"THE BIGGER THE HOLE, THE FASTER THE DRAIN ! "
Derik45


So I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. You are exactly right. A bigger hole does drain faster. That is not the statement that I was referring to. More your implications about the ineffectivity of the 9mm. Your above statement is irrelevent. Although their is a slight difference between the 9mm hole and a .45, the drainage for the most part is irrelevent. The internal damage caused by the round is the part of concern (trama channel). With the appropriate round the 9mm will do as much or more damage as the .45 and this is where you get your "knock-down" power. But hey, we don't need to get into a 9mm vs. .45 arguement here cause it has been debated to death. Frankly, most of us here on this board are not limited to using FMJ rounds, which I believe to be the only area of advantage of the .45. I can use hydrashocks and Win ST and blah blah blah. These will all help in the expansion of the trama channel and increase transfer of energy to the target, making them competitive or preferable over that of the .45. So if you are in the military or a LEO with restrictions on the round that you use, well then you may want to stick with the .45 in some cases. But if you are like the rest of us and can use whatever you want,,, the 9mm is not mickey mouse, no matter how much you want it to be. Sorry.

Fair enough.  [:)]

I think our new more vocal glock basher and his crew must have been limp-wristing, hey they were cops! and the limp-wristers always blame the gun because they've never been taught.

"where do I put the bullets in?"

[b]I give a big "Thumbs UP! to The Browning Hi-Power![/b]The Browning Hi-Power is or has been used in more than 68 countries as an official military of police sidearm. It has a well-earned reputation for great reliability and general excellence. It is compact, handles very well and is sufficiently accurate. More than that, it's a no-nonsense pistol w/o useless gimmicks. It is a classic in it's field that will be produced for years to come.

Some years ago, the NRA published an article in the “American Rifleman” about the use of +P+ ammo in 9mm pistols. This was something of a hot potato a far as the firearms manufacturers were concerned, and most were cautious or didn’t reply at all. Hmmm . . .

>Smith & Wesson indicated that they were not in favor of using the +P+ ammo in their pistols.
>Beretta replied that they could not advise on the use of high-pressure rounds at that time.
>The importer of TZ-75 and related pistols said that though they were proofed by the Italian Proof Bank at Gardone, they did not condone a steady diet of performance 9mm Luger ammo.
>Browning, on the other hand forwarded a copy of an internal test report in which it fired 5,000 rounds of Remington +P+ ammo in a Browning Hi Power pistol. [red]“Inspection of the Hi Power system revealed no unnatural wear of the locking surfaces or any other area. the conclusion; “. . . the 9mm Hi Power system appears to be durable enough to withstand long range [term] shooting of the +P+ ammunition.” [/red]

Do you AR15'ers see what this means? The 65 year old Browning design is so reliable and sturdy that it handles the highest performance ammo of today with aplomb.

The Browning Hi Power is a classic design that responds well to custom pistol smithing. And it is a Single Action.
Jeff Cooper {USMC ret.} noted author, lecturer, avid hunter, founder of the Gunsite Ranch has said: "A double action pistol is an interesting solution to a problem that does not exist!" Jeff Cooper maintains that the double action pull is an unnecessary feature designed to overcome the perceived inadequacies in training by auto pistol owners. He insists that appropriate training is the key to proper pistol handling. A sidearm should be simple as well reliable, and the increased complexity of the DA design does nothing to enhance these attributes. Consider also that the DA pistols have TWO trigger pull tensions. First, a long DA pull, followed by a short SA pull. No wonder Jeff Cooper called the “crunchntickers.”

Anyone in the market for an auto pistol should tryout the Browning Hi Power. Checkout what Jim Garthwaite can do for your Browning Hi-Power pistol! I have benefitted from his work. [url]http://www.garthwaite.com/index.html[/url]