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Posted: 9/13/2001 11:33:47 AM EST
I was reading this article about our response, and started thinking. When we attack the terrorists, there will be some non-terrorist harmed. [url]courttv.com/assault_on_america/0913_wartalk_ap.html[/url]
"I say, bomb the hell out of them," Sen. Zell Miller, D-Ga., said Wednesday. "If there's collateral damage, so be it. They certainly found our civilians to be expendable."
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If there is a building filled with 90 terrorist and 10 non-terrorist, should we bomb it? I am not trying to inflame, so [b]please[/b] keep a cool head. I would like to get an idea of what people find as an acceptable response. Also, I am not sure exactly whom he meant by "them".
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:38:31 AM EST
66% of those who answered a CBS News poll last night said that any number of innocent casualties. Only 20% beleved that the killing of innocents to get at those responsible was unacceptable. CBS was very suprised. Question is, do they really mean it, and when they see dead children a year from now will they remember what they said tonight.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:42:05 AM EST
concerned about collateral damage? You've got to be kidding me. If anyone thinks that we'll win by worrying about the rules they are sadly mistaken and such will only lead to the deaths of more americans-now and in the future. Before somebody else goes off on me half-cocked; I am only making my point, not flaming anyone.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:42:28 AM EST
Actually, its simple. Anyone that stands in the way of justice is NOT collateral damage. They are accomplices. They should help us. If they won't, they should get out of the way. If they won't, may Allah help them, cuz we are gonna vaporize them.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:43:07 AM EST
The level of collateral damage we can accept is directly proportional to the degree we can dehumanize the Arab people.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:47:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheCommissioner: The level of collateral damage we can accept is directly proportional to the degree we can dehumanize the Arab people.
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Add this to my post above.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:48:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:53:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheCommissioner: The level of collateral damage we can accept is directly proportional to the degree we can dehumanize the Arab people.
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[b]VERY PROFOUND[/b] I swear this is probably the most intelligent thing i have seen posted on any board for a long ass time. Interesting. And i believe it's true. Shawn
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:57:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: Somehow I think it would be easier to accept collateral damage if one thinks about the Arab men, women, and children celebrating in the streets and passing out candy. [:(!]
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here's a thought.... You saw the pics right???? Women and children dancing, men with guns shooting in the air. Is it possible, just possible, the men with guns were giving them reason to "celebrate" - the way Castro does with his people?? You know, for a good photo op??? Is it possible, just possible, that these poeple who don't have so much as a radio or a local newspaper are BEING FED LIES as to who has been doing what in the last 20 years??? I'm not defending the terrorists - just the sheeple who they may be exploiting for their own benefit. Just a thought....
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:59:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: Anyone that stands in the way of justice is NOT collateral damage. They are accomplices.
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You got my vote on that one.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:00:23 PM EST
it wasn't as a photo op. As soon as those pics got out, Palestinian leaders made it clear that journalists covering those celebrations would be either shot or never allowed coverage again.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:02:54 PM EST
By the sounds of it, it is a concern but not that big of one. I cannot believe what I have seen talked about on tv today. Go in and eliminate all in the way. Not normal liberal talk. And this will I fear come right back to the US. More attachs more losses here. Only God knows what will happen........ We all are going to feel the impact of this home and away.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:04:01 PM EST
The "innocent" people were those you saw dancing in the streets as our fellow Americans were burning to death under 600 tons of rubble. What innocent people? So many have posted saying that if we had kept our nose out of everyone's business, this wouldn't have happened. The United States has never oppressed a nation, we have defended the oppressed by attacking the oppressors. It is those oppressors who have attacked us. If the U.S. had ever come under attack by another nation, would you like everyone to just sit back and watch for fear of pissing someone off? I judge the patriotism of a man by his criticism of my country. The most un-American thing one can do is to blame the U.S. at a time like this. We pissed people off by being the good guy, nothing more. We can walk down the street without fear of a sniper waiting in some window. We can say what we want. We can worship any way we want to. We don't have to constantly fear for our lives. We are free and it fills them with hate for our country. They will soon see what happens when we ourselves are filled with hate. We do not attack single buildings. We do not attack 1 plane at a time. They will know a pain and suffering which they couldn't have begun to imagine. We are coming for you Bin Laden. You soon will know just what America is capable of.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:04:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By schnacke: it wasn't as a photo op. As soon as those pics got out, Palestinian leaders made it clear that journalists covering those celebrations would be either shot or never allowed coverage again.
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Whether it was a photo op, or it was some momma who's four year old was killed by an Israeli missile launch with the missle stamped "Made in USA" doesn't really matter. Granny ragtop is NOT an acceptable target - unless she wants to stand in the way of justice. And don't think for a moment these bedouins are being given the real story re: America by Mohammed Terrorist. They are pawns in the game.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:10:34 PM EST
Life is brutal at times.[frag]
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:11:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cypher214: I judge the patriotism of a man by his criticism of my country.
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WEll, I guess that makes Cal Thomas unpatriotic. And Alan Keyes. And Bill Bennet. [rolleyes]
We are free and it fills them with hate for our country.
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Yeah, I guess that is why they leave everything behind to come over here, leaving all their family and friends, they work hard, pay taxes, fly American flags, vote, never lift a finger against us - cuz they hate us so much. yeah, they hate proserity, and opportunity. Yup - all towelheads are terrorists - every single one. Care to amend any of your silliness????
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:12:51 PM EST
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=51577[/url] If you are afraid of killing innocent people this will never end. We will never be able to bring these people to justice or prevent others from attempting this again. The terrorists are counting on that kind of squeemishness as their protection.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:14:02 PM EST
We have tried in the past (Desert Storm)to spare the innocent as much as possible.This type of war was not effective. Ten years later we still have much trouble with Iraq. Iraq, Iran, Libya and Afghanistan have openly supported terrorists for years. We must wage total war until these countries are no longer able to support anything approaching terror.Total war is unfortunately very hard on the innocent as well as the guilty. That is why they call it war. I feel very sorry for the innocent that are going to die. Unfortunately their leaders brought this on them. Joe
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:26:12 PM EST
Post from Big_Bear -
It was easier to justify Nagasaki and Hiroshima as saving more lives than were lost.
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But the atomic bombs dropped there did indeed save many more lives than were lost! There are even a number of Japanese historians that agree that the bombs most likely [u]saved[/u] Japanese culture!
Somehow I think it would be easier to accept collateral damage if one thinks about the Arab men, women, and children celebrating in the streets and passing out candy.
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One need not [u]think[/u] that there are Arabs dancing in the streets over our recent tragedy, one can look at the actual films and photos of such celebrations! Not that the dancing and gift-giving folks are to be deliberately targeted in any US military response, but being of German descent, I cannot be the least bit concerned that the Allied bombing over Nazi Germany may have harmed [i]die Mutter und die Kinder.[/i] Sad, but such is the way of war, and dead mothers and children are subjects that should have been thought about by my German family when they clear-eyed and purposefully voted for Herr Hitler! If we think that wars are fought otherwise, we are deluding ourselves, for it would mean that [u]any[/u] military target of any consequence would be surrounded by day-care centers, elementary schools, and orphanages!!! Eric The(Cynical,German)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:35:04 PM EST
"Too much" collateral damage. Hmmm..... Well, I supose that if in our desire to kill every terrorist bastard on earth, their supporters, and their families, we end up having to completely depopulate the greater land mass of Asia, then perhaps we will need to limit the damage a bit more. Other than that, I say let 'em fly! The esteemed Senator is right (amazing for a Democrat!), they didn't seem to care too much about collateral damage, so why should we? And before anyone tells me about how America should always wear the white hat ([puke]), I submit that the reason we've always gotten our ass kicked by these barbarians is because we always play Mr. Nice Guy. It's time to take off the white hat, put on a battle helmet, and kick the fuckers so hard that they spend the next two millenia cowering in caves at the thought that we might get upset with them again.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:39:39 PM EST
Where the countries involved with and supporting terrorists are involved, the only possible collateral damage would be if some of our ordnance wound up on a neighboring and friendly country. Within the countries under attack, no damage can be viewed as collateral. The smart ones will put as much distance as possible between themselves and the target, if they can. Those that can't, well, war is HELL. Get used to it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:53:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Cypher214: I judge the patriotism of a man by his criticism of my country.
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WEll, I guess that makes Cal Thomas unpatriotic. And Alan Keyes. And Bill Bennet. [rolleyes]
We are free and it fills them with hate for our country.
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Yeah, I guess that is why they leave everything behind to come over here, leaving all their family and friends, they work hard, pay taxes, fly American flags, vote, never lift a finger against us - cuz they hate us so much. yeah, they hate proserity, and opportunity. Yup - all towelheads are terrorists - every single one. Care to amend any of your silliness????
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Don't take what I say out of context. Those who attacked our country hated it. They hated it because we have something they don't have, freedom. Those who come here to work and live free and support their families are welcome. I never made any statements regarding "ragheads". I have not made any statements which are stereotypical. Yes, I do honestly believe that anyone who can blame their country for this is unpatriotic. This is no time to point fingers at your own country. The pointing should be at those who were responsible.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 1:01:08 PM EST
If we think that wars are fought otherwise, we are deluding ourselves, for it would mean that any military target of any consequence would be surrounded by day-care centers, elementary schools, and orphanages!!!
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I agree, war is a messy business. Terrorists are cowards (especially the leaders). They get some brainwashed minions to do their evil bidding. The leaders are likely to hide behind the skirts of women in school full of children. However, people talk tough now when emotions are high. Will Americans have the stomach to continue when CNN starts showing the bodies of children killed by US bombs? I am not so sure. If there are 10 terrorists hiding in a building with 90 orphans, should we bomb that?
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 1:04:14 PM EST
LIVE FREE OR DIE There is no such thing as too much collateral damage. Locate the enemy and kill them. If people are stupid enough to get in the way too bad. Was there collateral damage when we nuked Japan at the end of WWII? Sure there was. Guess what, if we had not nuked Japan more people would have died. Same thing now, we either kill the terrorist and whoever their accomplices are or else more Americans are going to die. If you are a 90 year old lady making baby food in a factory that just so happens to house the terrorists we are after then you are going to die. I don't care about your country of origin. Either you are with us or you are against us. No riding the fence, no psycho babble, no religion mumbo jumbo. LIVE FREE OR DIE
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