Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 9/12/2001 1:31:53 AM EDT
Submitted w/o comment Reflections on the World Trade Center Attack by Bob Murphy The phone rang. It was early Tuesday morning. I quickly raced through any responsibilities I might have, realized I had none, and so let the machine get it. A few moments later, it rang again. Thinking it might be something important, I answered the phone. It was my dad. “Just calling to see if you’re still alive.” I restrained a snort: I’d talked to them not more than a week ago. Overprotective parents… Then he told me about the plane crashes, and I got up to look out my window at the Manhattan skyline. “Holy s***!” One of the towers was clearly on fire, while what looked like a low cloud hung over lower Manhattan. After turning on the television and realizing what had happened, my first reaction was to scan the sky. “Where the hell are the jets?” I wondered. After all, billions of dollars are stolen from taxpayers every year to “protect” us from foreign attacks. It would seem that if someone were flying planes into Manhattan buildings, that might be a good time to scramble the outrageously expensive fighter jets and put them to use. (I did see an F-16 a little while later, about a half hour after I got up.) The military is just as inefficient and bungling as every other government agency. It’s just that its operations are usually in foreign lands and shrouded in secrecy, so its screwups aren’t as obvious. If the military can’t even stop American planes – whose positions were known up until the moment of the hijackings – from attacking U.S. targets, do they seriously maintain they can knock down incoming ballistic missiles if we’ll only give them enough money? Only CBS was working; I couldn’t get reception on the other channels. The news anchors kept repeating the same few facts, and occasionally interviewed “experts.” At one point they talked to a doctor who was warning that there could have been biological agents in the attack. The anchors back in the station quickly made sure that he was not confirming this, just saying it was a possibility. He then startled everyone by predicting 50,000 deaths. Finally he began explaining that the best hospital in New York was only equipped with fifteen beds to deal with a biological attack, and that the response teams were hopelessly unprepared. At this point the news network came up with a “breaking development” and quickly switched away from this guy who was being just a little too candid. to be cont
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 1:32:22 AM EDT
cont... President Bush gave an address to reassure the American people. He pledged to hunt down the “cowards” who were responsible. I found this an inaccurate label. After all, these terrorists had hijacked planes and committed suicide, whereas our top government leaders were busy being evacuated into underground bunkers. Bush promised that “your government” would be kept running at all times. Yes, I had no doubt the government would be ready to protect itself in the event of a terrorist attack. The most infuriating analysis came from James Kallstrom, the former New York FBI director. He opined that people should not criticize the intelligence agencies, which after all are supposed to prevent these things. When asked why we couldn’t have stopped the attack, Kallstrom explained, “We live in a free society.” In other words, we have a choice: Give the government power to regulate air travel ever more, or else die. Sounds fair to me. And, contrary to Kallstrom, no we don’t live in a free society. We’ve given the government more and more power so it can “protect” us from terrorism. And of course, after the FBI and the CIA have failed so miserably in their one basic function, we will give them even more power. And they will fail again. Soon enough, the conventional wisdom had been established, and every guest repeated some variant of two themes. “No one could have imagined this.” Sure they could have. The people who plotted the attack had no problem imagining it. Are they smarter than the strategic wizards in the Pentagon? “This is an attack on our democracy.” No it isn’t. I don’t see people flying planes into Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower, and England and France are democracies, last I checked. This is an attack on the United States and its global empire. At what point will the American people realize that their government, far from protecting them, actually causes the hatred that brings on such terrorist attacks? I’m not holding my breath. And because of that, I really hope that doctor was wrong about the biological weapons. September 12, 2001 Copyright © 2001 LewRockwell.com
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:08:50 AM EDT
Bob Murphy Has some valid points, but poorly timed and inappropriate. [pissed]
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 5:57:07 AM EDT
Could someone please tell me how to find Mr. Murphy?
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:27:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: Could someone please tell me how to find Mr. Murphy?
View Quote
Why? [B]You[/B] want to punch him out too?
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 9:23:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin: Could someone please tell me how to find Mr. Murphy?
View Quote
Why? [B]You[/B] want to punch him out too?
View Quote
Your desire to counter Mr. Murphy's astute observations via physical confrontation speaks multitudes about you, Rik. Too bad you lack the desire to "strike back" with rational critical thought and logic, instead you make yourself appear to be less emotionally stable than the average prepubescent girl. I am glad to see you stay in character. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 9:35:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:05:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: One of Mr Murphy's major premises is badly flawed, to wit: the Gov't could have protected us. The Terrs seized the aircraft, turned off the ID transponders, and flew low, under the radar net. The Civilian net, unlike the Military net, which faces OUTWARD, is not designed to detect very low-flying aircraft. Short of maintaining an "outrageously expensive" (to use HIS words) Combat Air Patrol over all targets of opportunity in the US, there was no practical way for the MILITARY to have stopped this attack. I won't bother with the rest of the article; it follows from the first error.
View Quote
Maybe if they would have scrambled jets from the closest ANG or AF base as soon as there was any hint of a hijacking, nah too much to ask. I understand...it is so much easier not to bother with something if you can't logically counter. Your forfeiture of the remaining points is duly accepted. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:10:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Invictus: Your desire to counter Mr. Murphy's astute observations via physical confrontation speaks multitudes about you, Rik.
View Quote
And your poor timing and insensitivity to the feelings of others speaks volumes about you, Invictus. Fuck you and your self-righteousness.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 11:31:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: And your poor timing and insensitivity to the feelings of others speaks volumes about you, Invictus. Fuck you and your self-righteousness.
View Quote
Actually Rik I have been calling for the US to cease its global adventurism, for quite some time. So since I started my warnings *WELL BEFORE* the carnage I guess that makes me the bad guy, now that the warnings of the dire consequence have come to pass. No Rik, I didn't wait for the bodies to start piling up before criticizing US foreign policy, I actively tried to prevent this, but there are so many like you who think nothing we do will come back and bite us in the ass (arrogance) it is worse than paddling up river. Too bad hundreds of American asses had to cover the check of our foreign intervention and arrogance. I see that rational thought still escapes you to this day Rik. At least you are consistent. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 2:58:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Invictus: Actually Rik I have been calling for the US to cease its global adventurism, for quite some time. So since I started my warnings *WELL BEFORE* the carnage I guess that makes me the bad guy, now that the warnings of the dire consequence have come to pass.
View Quote
It makes you a moron to lecture people who are in shock and full of rage over an attack that has left thousands of Americans dead. If you can't see that, you're even more idiotic than I originally thought.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 3:14:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 4:04:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Invictus: After turning on the television and realizing what had happened, my first reaction was to scan the sky. “Where the hell are the jets?” I wondered. After all, billions of dollars are stolen from taxpayers every year to “protect” us from foreign attacks. It would seem that if someone were flying planes into Manhattan buildings, that might be a good time to scramble the outrageously expensive fighter jets and put them to use. (I did see an F-16 a little while later, about a half hour after I got up.) The military is just as inefficient and bungling as every other government agency. It’s just that its operations are usually in foreign lands and shrouded in secrecy, so its screwups aren’t as obvious. If the military can’t even stop American planes – whose positions were known up until the moment of the hijackings – from attacking U.S. targets, do they seriously maintain they can knock down incoming ballistic missiles if we’ll only give them enough money?
View Quote
What an asshole, this dick figures now is a good time to promote his anti military agenda.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 6:55:49 PM EDT
QCMNGER, I agree. "Invictus"? nice 19th century poem,but last I heard it, Timmy McVeigh...a home grown, albeit, unimgainative, piker terrorist,...wrote it as his last statement before his (much too merciful) execution....so, dude, are you some psuedointellectual raghead apologist? in any event...fuck you.
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 7:45:06 PM EDT
This Bob Murphy is obviously a complete idiot, as is apparent in his assertion that the military could some how identify those three planes out of the 1000's that were flying in that area at the time. While I find some truth in his statements regarding the FBI and CIA, we have to remember that the liberals castrated the CIA in the 1970's, leaving them a mere shell of what they were, for instance, in the 1960's. They have a dirty job. If the assassination of foreign terrorists OR leaders is something we are willing to accept as necessary to ensure our own freedom and prosperity, then so be it. But to come back 20 years later and blame the CIA for not doing its job after we removed their powers, well it's somewhat hypocritical, isn't it?
Link Posted: 9/12/2001 9:06:58 PM EDT
Hell, I'm a limited government libertarian type of guy. But country comes before politics in times like this. The problem with deskbound pontificators like this guy, and several people on this board, is that they don't know when to give it a rest. Now would be appropriate time to put the venom on hold, for those lacking a clue.
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 10:23:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RikWriter: It makes you a moron to lecture people who are in shock and full of rage over an attack that has left thousands of Americans dead. If you can't see that, you're even more idiotic than I originally thought.
View Quote
Rage, Shock??? I know all about rage and shock. Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events but I had the errant flight 77 end up in my "back yard" so to speak. Why don't you come up here and enjoy the nostril pleasing scents wafting in the breeze you ignorant Toad. I guess you would rather stay in the relative safety of your home state. You must still be angry that your pilot training business ain't so hot any more! I also know that it is more than just merely some "rag-heads" fault for all of this. This was the culmination of a hell of a lot of events over many decades, only to come to fruition in my general vicinity, as well as the unfortunates in NYC&PA. Too bad we didn't listen to George Washington. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 11:51:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 12:36:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oldeschool: QCMNGER, I agree. "Invictus"? nice 19th century poem,but last I heard it, Timmy McVeigh...a home grown, albeit, unimgainative, piker terrorist,...wrote it as his last statement before his (much too merciful) execution.....
View Quote
Oldeshool, Yes it is a wonderful poem, I am glad I am not the only fan of William Ernest Henley on AR15.com. It is a shame that Mr. McVeigh used it publicly, not that even he could tarnish that masterpiece.
so, dude, are you some psuedointellectual raghead apologist?
View Quote
Not at all, are you some psuedointellectual Nazi apologist?
in any event...fuck you.
View Quote
Cruising the discussion forums for gay sex is considered bad form but considering this is coming from you it is par for the course. Now why don't you just slither your race baiting fascist ass back into your sewer. Don't worry you won't drown, a piece of shit like you will float forever. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 1:09:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raf: Invictus: Not only did I understand your original post, but I "logically countered" its central contention. Whether you wish to acknowledge facts or not is your prerogative. As to scrambling Jets that's a great idea. Only problem is where do you vector them to intercept. Or maybe all fighter a/c should be scrambled and burn fuel uselessly swanning around the sky hoping to find a target. Finally, if you carefully re-read my post, I concede nothing to you. I will not lower myself to resorting to insults in replying to your posts.
View Quote
Sorry about your logical counter, it seemed very weak to me but thats just my opinion, you are welcome to your own. Considering that fighters have hours worth of fuel on them circling the sky, with radar active sounds like a good idea. It sounds like their is no comprehensive anti-hijacking plan in existence with the military or the FAA. If there was it has been shown to be woefully inadequate. I have no concrete data on the altitude the terrorists decided to fly at, but if they had scrambled fighters, their radar could find the low targets. Don't concede to me guy, it isn't my article. You were the one who said you wouldn't pursue it anymore. I merely submitted it *WITHOUT* comment. Others got the ball rolling. I have to give you a lot of credit, no one else seems to try counter anything with logic anymore, most everyone else has been in pure emotion mode, of course this makes them appear as rational as PMS'ing Prom Queens. I hope you aren't insinuating that I have thrown an insult at you. My policy is reciprocal, I only return such that is directed my way. See Rik and Olde, those insults were well deserved, and merely returned. rDAm
Link Posted: 9/13/2001 2:04:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Invictus: Rage, Shock??? I know all about rage and shock.
View Quote
But nothing about PEOPLE, apparently.
Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events but I had the errant flight 77 end up in my "back yard" so to speak. Why don't you come up here and enjoy the nostril pleasing scents wafting in the breeze you ignorant Toad. I guess you would rather stay in the relative safety of your home state. You must still be angry that your pilot training business ain't so hot any more!
View Quote
Do you practice at being an ignorant, obnoxious moron, or does it come naturally?
I also know that it is more than just merely some "rag-heads" fault for all of this. This was the culmination of a hell of a lot of events over many decades, only to come to fruition in my general vicinity, as well as the unfortunates in NYC&PA. Too bad we didn't listen to George Washington. rDAm
View Quote
Too bad you don't know shit about history OR world politics.
Top Top