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Posted: 2/24/2001 11:56:11 AM EDT
Recently, notably in the "soldier of god" threads, we have had an influx of very vocal Xians. Since not all of us here subscribe to their particular flavor of religion, there have been some requests for them to conduct their religious activities elsewhere. Some of those requests were polite, others not so. The Xian response has ranged from "use your back button" to "they must be insecure in their beliefs" to other more insulting or bellicose responses. Not too long ago, we had a large controversy here at the board because some members were offended by the presence of pornography posted by other members. At that time, it was determined that "don't read those posts" or "use your back button" were not adequate responses to those who were offended. As a result, the posting of pornography was prohibited and it is now grounds for being banned from this board. Although I was not one of those who posted porn, I saw the point of the decision and agreed with it. As it happens, my sensibilities are offended by members using this board as a pulpit for preaching their own particular religious values. If those who are offended by porn are to have their feelings protected, then I claim the same right to have my feelings taken into account, as well. Just as the porn enthusiasts were told that there are plenty of adult boards out there for them to indulge their taste in erotica, so are there plenty of Xian boards for those of that persuasion to indulge in praise and worship away from those who don't share that enthusiasm. There are even boards specifically for gun-owning Xians. I am not asking those Xian members of the board to leave entirely, I am simply asking them to have the courtesy to conduct their religious lives in more appropriate fora. Opinions?
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:28:22 PM EDT
Bitch bitch bitch bitch.Is that all you can offer this board? Remember it takes two to tango.This is called general discussion.What part of general don't you understand?If you want to know about ARs go to build it your self section.Now stop whinning like a dog before I come over there,and slap you like the bitch you are.And I am not going to get in a pissin contest.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:32:04 PM EDT
[b]Gologo-13....I agree 100%, you're absolutely right on this subject.[/b]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:34:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plink: Bitch bitch bitch bitch.Is that all you can offer this board? Remember it takes two to tango.This is called general discussion.What part of general don't you understand?If you want to know about ARs go to build it your self section.Now stop whinning like a dog before I come over there,and slap you like the bitch you are.And I am not going to get in a pissin contest.
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Pretty ballsy for a whiny little punk with a grand total of 1 post to his credit here. Plink, go back to the rock you slithered out from under.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:35:26 PM EDT
I'm offended at your being offended. Now what do we do? It looks like some folks with other ideas can preach with the best of them. Hey! Look! Just past the trees---that's the forest!!! Also, I am a CHRISTian, not a Xian. Try slang on some of our other diverse/ethnic groups and see what you get back. Enough. The first guy just wanted to state his beliefs, cut him some slack. As I said before, we are a TEAM, with a common interest in AR15's. Let's call it good for all and start talking about Guns, our other religion...
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:48:50 PM EDT
Dear Golga, I am a Christian and I do post messages on this forum board. I express my personal views. I try not to offend anybody and never attack anyone personnaly. We are all entitled to our opinions and though we all don't agree on all subjects, I find the discussions to be both educational and intertaining. I don't think that there should be any censorship of any subjects, as long as there are no personnal attacks. As Americans we all have the right to free speech and even those who wish to post pornography do so with the same protections as any others.(IMHO) When ever and where ever thoughts and ideas are controlled or sanctioned by anyone, the whole of the group is denied the freedom to interact. Tolerance and respect for the beliefs of others should be expected and ought to be protected by the courtesy and restaint of all participants. Thank God we all live in a country where we are guaranteed these fundamental rights as given to us by our CREATOR.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:50:42 PM EDT
I was right this is a pissin contest! All right I have lots of guns.I'm Really big,and mean.I had lot's of posts at the old site.I am really a good shot.I can do four hunndred pushups.And my dick is way bigger then yours.Happy.You like personal attacks,and threats.Maby I should e-mail you death threat.I love the internet any asshole can say,or be anything.You assholes just proved my point.You are little bitches.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 12:56:10 PM EDT
Who cares? About either position? You guys are so busy whining about what the other says that you will have every point of view(even your own)moderated out of existance. If you want to be able to voice your own OPINIONS don't take a crap on everyone elses the second you read something that you don't agree with. SOPMODM4 BTW:There more reason to suspect that a supreme being created all of manifest creation than not but that does not mean that every joker that spouts off about the Almighty even has the tiniest clue as to what's really going on in that department.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:02:25 PM EDT
Yo Golgo-13 and M4---Ditto 100%!
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:08:19 PM EDT
Golgo & M-4, I would love to see you two sitting with the founding fathers when the Constitution was worded!!!! Somehow I don't think it would have turned out how it did, what with all the references to GOD and everything. Oh well, we really don't need the Constitution or the Bill of Rights anyway; Right?
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:29:28 PM EDT
All right M4 I admit that I lied.I am a four foot one armed midget dumbass.I have never shot,or owned a firearm.I just thought that I could join this board.You see being a four foot midget dumbass I don't have many friends.I thought you could look past my short cummings.But I see now you are to cool to hang with me.I just guss the right wing religious nuts,and me should leave.Becouse are presence offends thee so much.I am so sorry.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:31:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plink: All right I have lots of guns.I'm Really big,and mean.I had lot's of posts at the old site.I am really a good shot.I can do four hunndred pushups.And my dick is way bigger then yours.Happy.
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Plinky, Plinky, Plinky, calm down, it's not a pissin' contest. . . . [i]PS: My God has a bigger dick than your God.[/i]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 1:45:41 PM EDT
Hey it works!!! I just used the back button [O:)]
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:20:48 PM EDT
Great 1st. post Plink, your in the x ring. gologo13 and m4, hereafter refered to as the sisters of sappho or the sisters for brevity, are the bangganger divas of ar15.com.. How to be a sister of sappho. 1. accuse people of being inferior for a mis- spelled word and misspell words when doing it. 2. call people names 3. project their insecurities on everyone else 4. when a thread gets to hot for them back channel to a mod and cry for help; or create a new thread, like they did here. 5. take and make words and thoughts out of context.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:29:40 PM EDT
[b]Tolerance![/b] I have never read anything on this board that really offended me. Yes, I've read a couple of posts that ticked me off a little. I did not have to attack or insult anyone over them. If I can do it then you can too. Sorry, guys some things in this world are going to offend you, some things are going to piss you off, deal with it like everyone else does, it's part of life.
Link Posted: 2/24/2001 7:35:48 PM EDT
golgo- m4 -i'm with you guys- last time i checked the sign on the door was "ar15.com" not "tbn weird hair madness.com" - we are here to share and support/help each other when there are wolves (anti's) at our door - just because the W won does not mean we are secure!! i feel rws eagle has every right to spout what he wants but why come to the party in full drag when it's business casual??? golgo is right that religion card -if harnessed by the anti's will drive us apart easily. now bearing in mind 70% of americans go to somekind of services on sundays - rws statistically with have 70% of the board on his side - though he seems to expond to the extreme right of the bell curve so to speak personally i find it really interesting that pro-gunners are not pro abortion - i guess it is ok to kill one of "gods creatures" with our armalites (in self defense of course) outside of the uterus but not in it. hmmm can't figure that one out. anyway good point golgo steve gun-totting bhuddist (figure that one out!!)
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 12:00:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steve m: personally i find it really interesting that pro-gunners are not pro abortion - i guess it is ok to kill one of "gods creatures" with our armalites (in self defense of course) outside of the uterus but not in it. hmmm can't figure that one out.
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Let me explain it to you. If I have to kill another human being in self defense, it will only be because that person made their desire to harm me or my family known and proceeded to act upon that desire. When they do that, they are no longer innocent. A child in the womb is an innocent life, and has done absolutely nothing to deserve to die. Dont think that by my willingness to defend myself or my family that I would enjoy having to do it, either. I do not support abortion and never could take part in one. I do not agree with the decision of Roe vs. Wade and I think it should be changed, but I dont think it should be illegal because the health risk to the mother from back-alley coat-hanger abortions would be great. I do not pass judgement on those that choose to have abortions because that is not my place to do so. It is between them and the Lord. On the Day of Judgement when they stand before the Father, Jesus will not be there to answer for them, and they will have to explain to Him why they chose to terminate the life of their innocent unborn.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 12:30:33 AM EDT
Hey wOODY , if a woman wants to have an abortion , the kid has no chance to begin with. She either has been raped , an adultress , or simply a POS. So why would you want to have us feed this bastard to begin with . The kid will most likely be a criminal on welfare. Cutting out abortion will add more project trash , more taxes on me , more crime , and more liberals. Think about it bud. cheeks
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 3:42:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2001 3:56:27 AM EDT by Jack-B-Nymble]
Golgo-13, You seem to be blind to the problem, or maybe you ignore it. The problem is as follows-[b]There are those who can not resist creating God in their own image.[/b] They read a little verse, look into a mirror, see a reflection distorted by their own twisted psyche, EUREKA!!! they have found God. Of course, God convienently agrees with everything that they say, do, ect. If not, they just twist His word to make it fit. When you disagree with or even question their beliefs, they react with extreme fervor, violently. "PERSECUTION!", they scream. Why? Because you are at odds with their God. An extension of their own [i]id.[/i] Of course in the good old days they would have just burned you at the stake. So you see, it is really better to just use the back button. Just read the posts that follow this post, they will prove it. [:D][:D][:D] P.S.----- 80FL, give me a break. A good number of the Founding Fathers were Deists who were ran off by "good Christians." Almost all of the Founding Fathers faced religious persecution from those same "good Christians". 150 years earlier, they would have been the "Frying Fathers."
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 5:31:47 AM EDT
OK, you really hurt my feelings and I'm leaving!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 5:32:40 AM EDT
for church
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 5:43:54 AM EDT
I Agree 200% with Golgo13... this is not the place to show off religious beliefs. And, for christians, to show off should be considered a sin of lackness of modesty. Be christian (or jew, or muslim or whatever you want) and enjoy it...
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 5:53:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steve m: personally i find it really interesting that pro-gunners are not pro abortion - i guess it is ok to kill one of "gods creatures" with our armalites (in self defense of course) outside of the uterus but not in it. hmmm can't figure that one out. anyway good point golgo
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That is the most weak minded, flawed logic I have ever heard. What wOOdy pointed out is so obvious...I just can't get over it. [url]www.democraticunderground.com[/url] This is YOUR sight. I just hope gun owners like you never do any public speaking...our cause will be laughed out of the building.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 6:41:42 AM EDT
The point is that we're a diverse group, and that's where our power lies. Trying to preach one particular religious ideology is annoying at best, and ultimately divisive at it's worst. The problem is that just because we all share an interest in guns (and the internet) doesn't mean we'd all like each other, agree with each other on other subjects, or enjoy each other's company under other circumstances. Frankly, I seriously doubt it. Bottom line for me, don't presume that just because YOU believe something that I would, or that I'd like to hear about it. The further away the topic gets from AR-15 style rifles, the smaller your audience gets.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 8:32:46 AM EDT
Golgo-13 is right on the money. keep the religious cult nonsense on the back burner and do everyone a favour.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 8:57:30 AM EDT
My rifle twist is 1:7. I think I read somewhere that 62 gr. is best for the 1:7 But, can I still use 55 gr. with similar accuracy??????????????????
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 9:10:35 AM EDT
Golgo13 I agree 100%. And well put DScott.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 9:15:57 AM EDT
That has to be about the most LUCID post on this whole religion/AR topic. Next to the post on bullet weights and twist rates!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 9:19:05 AM EDT
Ne Parcus Nec Spernas
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 9:34:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By steve m: golgo is right that religion card -if harnessed by the anti's will drive us apart easily.
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Fine point. Damn fine point. You changed my mind on this issue. "Delusions, errors, and lies are like huge gaudy vessels, the raftars of which are rotten, and worm eaten. And all who voyage upon them are destined to a travel of peril" McBhudda
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:16:51 AM EDT
Golgo 13, your playing the most well known liberal tactic. The "offended" ploy. To get what you want. That is no better than the MMM who use the "children" to take our guns. If you are offended... [size=6]DON'T LOOK![/size=6]
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:30:30 AM EDT
The United States of the Offended. Everyone is offended about something. I say live and let live. You do your thing, I'll do mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not trying to push anything on anyone. Do I come to your door, do I go to your work, Do I follow and harrass you. Do I post, using your name in the title. You might say, well you post on my AR15 board. Well it is everyones board. Half the members here like to talk about God and Faith, notice I didn't say religion. And half don't want to talk about it, fine don't. You don't have to be offended about it either. Why can't you live and let live??? Why do you want to tell me I can't talk about God??? Why do you what to tell me what I can and can not do period????????????????????? [b]What if I told you not to talk about guns, or I told you not to own guns, is that not the same thing. Live how you want, and let me live how I want.[/b]
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:39:46 AM EDT
"Ah, well-a-day! What evil looks had I from old and young! About my neck, instead of the cross, the albatross was hung" (paraphased, of course!)
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:41:59 AM EDT
"The self same day that I could pray, and from my neck so free, the albatross fell off, and sank like lead into the sea!" (paraphrased yet again!)
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:47:54 AM EDT
What if I authored long, rambling posts about the joy of worshipping Bhudda? What if I shared the ecstasy of serving the Krishna? Say I am a Pagan, every now and then I really feel compelled to do a Bacchanalian dance by the light of the full moon. Say I am also compelled to share it with everyone on this board, revile them when they disagree with me, tell them they will burn in Bacchanalian Hell if they believe any different than me because [b]I have the answer for everyone![/b] I wonder, how would the shoe fit on the other foot?
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:54:14 AM EDT
[size=6]DON'T LOOK![/size=6]
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 10:56:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By David M: What if I authored long, rambling posts about the joy of worshipping Bhudda? What if I shared the ecstasy of serving the Krishna? Say I am a Pagan, every now and then I really feel compelled to do a Bacchanalian dance by the light of the full moon. Say I am also compelled to share it with everyone on this board, revile them when they disagree with me, tell them they will burn in Bacchanalian Hell if they believe any different than me because [b]I have the answer for everyone![/b] I wonder, how would the shoe fit on the other foot?
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You and I both know that it would make NO difference at all...Everybody is a Good Guy, or a Bad Guy, and it just depends on which side of the fence you are on. However, it appears that you have a passing knowledge of HP Lovecraft? If so then maybe you can appreciate and understand that I thought that his mythos is allot more appealing than what has gone before in this thread...No Grey (or is that Gray?) Area at all!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:00:22 AM EDT
"Some hae meat and canna eat; And some wad eat that want it; But we hae meat and we can eat, And sae the Lord be thankit."
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:03:03 AM EDT
Cock-a-leekie soup & Haggis for everyone!!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:04:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M1A-A1: "Some hae meat and canna eat; And some wad eat that want it; But we hae meat and we can eat, And sae the Lord be thankit."
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Robby Burns... Now, say it in Gaelic...[:D] The last time that I heard that was at a Burns Supper in Santa Monica...and a good time was had by all!! Even the Haggis was good!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:07:34 AM EDT
I must disagree. It makes a big difference. As to the fence and which side you are on, that only really matters to who built the fence in the first place. HP Lovecraft? Naaa. But, I'll look him up.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:17:02 AM EDT
..ZZZ... (lets talk about ARs...)
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:26:08 AM EDT
O.K. I still haven't got a answer yet. My rifle twist is 1:7. I think I read somewhere that 62 gr. is best for the 1:7 But, can I still use 55 gr. with similar accuracy?????????????????? Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:33:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RWS Eagle: O.K. I still haven't got a answer yet. My rifle twist is 1:7. I think I read somewhere that 62 gr. is best for the 1:7 But, can I still use 55 gr. with similar accuracy?????????????????? Thanks in advance.
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Copied from Gary Conway's AR15 Site at: http://www.combatsimulations.com/ar15/ "The 223 Remington was developed between 1957 and 1959 at the behest of the Continental Army Command (CONARC). The result was military development of a new service rifle cartridge. Adopted in February 1964 as the 5.56mm Ball Cartridge M193, it was introduced as a commercial cartridge by Remington one month earlier. Based on the 222 Remington case head dimensions, the 223 case is only .060" longer than its parent. However, it has greater powder capacity because the case body was lengthened and the neck shortened. With equivalent bullet weights, the 223 enjoys a 100 to 300 fps velocity advantage. This advantage is due to a combination of the larger case and higher operating pressures. Almost any military cartridge, once commercialized, is destined to become an immediate success and the 223 was no exception. The ready supply of cases and an excellent selection of 22 caliber bullets has made the 223 one of the most popular cartridges. Original military and commercial rifles had a 1:14 twist, later changed to 1:12 for better long range stability with the 55 grain service bullet. However, when the military adopted a heavier, 62 grain service round (the FN SS109 armor piercing round, M855) military rifles were fitted with 1:7 twist to better stabilize the heavier bullet. When fired at 3200 fps from a 1:7 twist rifle, the bullet is spinning at an incredible 300,000 rpm when it leaves the muzzle. This rotation is more than most varmint bullets can stand and they are thus ripped apart. The commerical SAAMI 223 average pressure limit is 52,000 cup." End of Material Copied...Hope it helps [:D]
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 11:36:00 AM EDT
I never have got good accuracy with 55 grain FMJ. Try a 52 grain HPBTM for laughs. Push it hard enough, it will never reach the target. {Blows up mid trajectory}
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 12:22:38 PM EDT
I simply want the same courtesy extended to me that was extended to the members offended by porn. The precedent has been set at this board that if members are offended by something, that something gets banned and its enthusiasts are to go to boards dedicated to it. Thus, as I see it, religious material and pornography should be treated the same.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 1:03:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Golgo-13: I simply want the same courtesy extended to me that was extended to the members offended by porn. The precedent has been set at this board that if members are offended by something, that something gets banned and its enthusiasts are to go to boards dedicated to it. Thus, as I see it, religious material and pornography should be treated the same.
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Now, here is where you and I disagree. Hopefully, we have members who allow their kids to view AR-15.com to help bring them into the shooting sports. They do not want to expose their children to porn. [b]Not[/b] a good platform for sex education! We have to keep a sense of propriety here. However, when we get one of these zealous religious threads going, one can point it out to their children and educate them on religious demagoguery. So zealots, be my guest!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 2:51:22 PM EDT
religious material and pornography should be treated the same. religious material and pornography should be treated the same. religious material and pornography should be treated the same. religious material and pornography should be treated the same. [b]No matter how many times I read this, I cann't get it to add up and equal.[/b] Our Constitution and this Country was founded on Religious beliefs, not pornography!
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 3:19:49 PM EDT
Golgo-13 you are right and correct. I really don't mind if poeple go off on a God rant, but when they say things like I'm wrong and they are praying for me, I get pissed!! I come to this forum to discuss AR-15's and other firearms, NOT to be told I'm unworthy. -Spaced
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 3:36:08 PM EDT
That settles it. I am going to pray for all of us tonight.
Link Posted: 2/25/2001 3:44:45 PM EDT
hey rws - funny you brought that up - as i was making breakfast this morning (left over chicken and rice) - i was listening to the tv and it was the "crocodile hunter" talking about two kinds of lizards (?) mating and how the male is mouting the female and yada yada - and it struck me the it's OK to show animals mating on regular TV but when humans do it it's pornography! (i think the female form is one of the most beautiful creations in all the universe...) religion is a "hot button" with most people as is politics and sex - i think what golgo was saying is that as a "hot button" it should be treated as the same - that's why there are porno sites and religious sites... with this being a site for eugene's brilliant invention. a small side note - do a search engine on "the god module" did you know what we are genetically engineered to believe in a higher power? personally if god was such a 'bad dude' (a compliment) shouldn't his work be able to stand on it's own with out having his 'children' made to believe?? just a thought lastly as i step off of my own small soap box - christianity in it's current form is quite docile yet it is the major religion of the western hemisphere because it was the most violent and parasitic religions in years before. the genocide of entire peoples and their way of life was done in the name of 'god' - just think of how many of god's creatures were slaughtered in his name. is this was he really wanted? i really doubt it.... our lives are short and perhaps we should help each other with the business of life not necessarily the business of a few who try and hold sprititual power and direct connection to the 'big guy' over the masses. love, peace and ar15's steve
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