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jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:20:57 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 2:23:11 AM by jkstexas2001]
We had a thread where I posted this Ben Rich quote.


“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.”


Ben Rich used to run Skunkworks. Now, some of you ladies questioned the accuracy of that quote. At the end of the Stealth Aircraft show, they interviewed a friend of his, and he said the following


Shortly before he died, Ben told me that out in the desert, we have vehicles 50 years ahead of anything you are aware of today. Anything you saw in Star Wars, for example, we can do. Anything you can imagine, we can do"


Now this was a fellow engineer, a friend of his, saying Ben told him this. This was not some UFO investigator or fringe pseudo-scientist. This quote is almost the same as the first statement I quoted.

What experimental aircraft do you think we have out there? What do you think they will roll out 20 years from now, like when they rolled out the F-117 over 15 years ago? Of course, it will be guesses, but it is extremely interesting to imagine what kind of things we are able to do but are so black it will be 20 years before we will ever hear about it.
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M15A2
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:24:12 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 2:24:31 AM by M15A2]
I have often thought the same thing. There is no telling what they have out there.




PS I want a lightsaber.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:26:18 AM
I don't know how far I would go with that statement. If we truely had interstellar warships I suspect we'd just smite our enemies from orbit. Or beam them from the planet to just outside the hull to watch them die a horrible death.

I'm guessing he is refering to materials technologies and power generation technologies. Those two things still leave issue with lifting those nifty components into orbit to building a vessel.

Anything as earth shattering as anti-grav or some such is out. They would have cleared it by now and not be risking lives with our POS shuttle.
jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:26:31 AM
I think we have mastered antigravity and invisibility. Invisibility can be achieved using something called metamaterials, from what I've read.
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jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:29:09 AM

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
I don't know how far I would go with that statement. If we truely had interstellar warships I suspect we'd just smite our enemies from orbit. Or beam them from the planet to just outside the hull to watch them die a horrible death.

I'm guessing he is refering to materials technologies and power generation technologies. Those two things still leave issue with lifting those nifty components into orbit to building a vessel.

Anything as earth shattering as anti-grav or some such is out. They would have cleared it by now and not be risking lives with our POS shuttle.


I don't know if Rich was given to exagerration, but he said "science fiction" and "Star Wars" -- that's very suggestive, and he would know projects and experimental aircraft we were testing. He probably had more access than most folks.
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M15A2
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:29:20 AM
The question is...Why aren't any of these things being put to military use? Invisibility would be a great asset.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:33:30 AM

Originally Posted By M15A2:
The question is...Why aren't any of these things being put to military use? Invisibility would be a great asset.


Who says they aren't?

I'm not normally one to delve into conspiracy theories, but it is hard to deny that if such a thing DID exist and was used, any survivors that reported it would be ignored as lunatics.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:35:00 AM

Originally Posted By M15A2:
The question is...Why aren't any of these things being put to military use? Invisibility would be a great asset.


they are already out there... you just cant see em..
Pfft,Im sick of people saying 'dont waste paper'. If trees wanted to live, they'd all carry guns

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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:35:33 AM


Anything you saw in Star Wars, for example, we can do.


Even assuming Rich actually said it (I watched the show, and the character at the end looked a bit young to have been a friend of Rich's), that seems to be a rather blatant overstatement.

What, we can actually 'jump to hyperspace'? We can zip around in space, minus the massive chemical rockets we currently use to get there? We can blow up a planet with a cool-ass green beam?

Come on. I'm sure we have cool stuff in the works, but either Rich had a penchant for a bit of showmanship, or he didn't actually say those things.
jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:37:20 AM

Originally Posted By M15A2:
The question is...Why aren't any of these things being put to military use? Invisibility would be a great asset.


For all we know, it may already be being used, in special missions such as in the hunt for OBL. I don't think they'd deploy this technology on a wide scale, say to soldiers on patrol in Iraq, because once they did, it would become general knowledge
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jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:40:26 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 2:40:59 AM by jkstexas2001]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:


Anything you saw in Star Wars, for example, we can do.


Even assuming Rich actually said it (I watched the show, and the character at the end looked a bit young to have been a friend of Rich's), that seems to be a rather blatant overstatement.

What, we can actually 'jump to hyperspace'? We can zip around in space, minus the massive chemical rockets we currently use to get there? We can blow up a planet with a cool-ass green beam?

Come on. I'm sure we have cool stuff in the works, but either Rich had a penchant for a bit of showmanship, or he didn't actually say those things.


My take is he meant that SOME of the things he saw in Star Wars, he saw in the secret facilities. He probably wasn't referening to hyperspace jumps, but perhaps those antigravity speeders, beam weapons, force field shields, etc.
"Got a problem, need help, odds against you, Call The Equalizer" -- From The Equalizer
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swingset
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Posted: 9/28/2006 3:02:18 AM
Just imagining the commesary in the Skunkworks probably looks like this....

Wanna see what makes me tick? Offer me a blowjob or a milkshake and observe the decision making process.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 3:06:22 AM
Of course, didn't you guys know the show Stargate SG-1 is a documentary?
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Posted: 9/28/2006 3:11:32 AM

Originally Posted By Miracle_Pants:
Of course, didn't you guys know the show Stargate SG-1 is a documentary?



damn you, I was sooo gonna use that one.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 3:44:56 AM
Consider the big picture. We live on a planet with over one hundred different nations, many of which are still in the Stone Age. Much of this planet's population cannot handle mildly derogatory cartoons without going into a hissy fit. Imagine, for a moment, what would happen if uncontestable proof of aliens was released.

Hell, just a few years ago Christians in this country had to do all sorts of soul searching simply because some scientists came out and published their findings that a meterorite found in Antartica came from Mars and *might* have evidence of *bacteria* from *several million years* ago. The Pope even made a statement about it.

If this information was obtained in the 50's and 60's I could see why they covered it up. However, time is running out. If this info isn't released, at least in part, society is in for a hard landing.
Master_of_Orion
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Posted: 9/28/2006 4:17:18 AM
this thread is ripe for this pic...

"Never attribute to malice that which can be ascribed to sheer stupidity." LTC (CENTCOM)

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Posted: 9/28/2006 4:18:39 AM
It's depressing that such fantastic things may never come to light in my lifetime.
I keep it handy... for close encounters.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 4:49:33 AM
If the government has all kinds of super advanced weapons how do you explain, the success terrorists had on 9-11. If the U.S. isn't using super, advanced weaponry to protect Washington D.C., or Manhattan Island what in heavens name are they using it for?

I fear even the technology we can see in NASA, SETI, etc. is nothing but a charade, for what would become of us if the very notion of progress died & we came to realize all have, and all are ever going to have, is the earth?
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Posted: 9/28/2006 5:15:39 AM
There are DEFFINATLY amazing things being worked on, but i really dont believe that "star wars" type craft truly exist at area 51 or any other base. I DO belive that things like aurora>sp possibly expierments......nothing devlopmental in invisability or cloaking are going on. I also belive that it is POSSIBLE that inter-planetary NOT universal space travel is possible at very rapid speeds using UAVs. Probably things like sattilites that can fire a lazer onto the surface of the earth or any other object for that matter.....................But as far as "beam me up scotty" type shit isnt out there yet.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 6:22:33 AM
There is a book that was written by a guy who is an investigative reporter for Janes Aviation. Its called The Hunt for Zero Point, by Nick Cook.

Cook asserts that the US had gotten HUGE amounts of data from the Nazis at the end of WW2. It seems that the Nazis had their own "Black" works and had gone down the road of "gravity deflection"...and messing with the space/time continium.

Zero Point is the space between atoms, that supposedly contains enough energy in a empty shoe box to power the entire world for a 1,000 years...or create enough destructive power to make the current nuclear weapons look like firecrackers.

It is Cooks assertion that given 50 years of "Black research" we have projects that are unspeakable. Our Black World is a government by itself. Gravity deflected vehicles would not shock me at all...however, if they were revealed to the public would probably start a war that no one would want to go through.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 6:27:48 AM
Sorry I don't believe.

Do you realize what anti grav or fusion tech would do for our economy?

It would get out. This is not like Stealth which had little transferable use to civilian tech.
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sherrick13
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Posted: 9/28/2006 6:31:04 AM

Originally Posted By Jmurman:
There is a book that was written by a guy who is an investigative reporter for Janes Aviation. Its called The Hunt for Zero Point, by Nick Cook.

Cook asserts that the US had gotten HUGE amounts of data from the Nazis at the end of WW2. It seems that the Nazis had their own "Black" works and had gone down the road of "gravity deflection"...and messing with the space/time continium.

Zero Point is the space between atoms, that supposedly contains enough energy in a empty shoe box to power the entire world for a 1,000 years...or create enough destructive power to make the current nuclear weapons look like firecrackers.

It is Cooks assertion that given 50 years of "Black research" we have projects that are unspeakable. Our Black World is a government by itself. Gravity deflected vehicles would not shock me at all...however, if they were revealed to the public would probably start a war that no one would want to go through.


So tell me, how was Coast to Coast tonight?
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Posted: 9/28/2006 6:48:08 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 6:49:23 AM by Tomislav]

Originally Posted By Jmurman:
Cook asserts that the US had gotten HUGE amounts of data from the Nazis at the end of WW2. It seems that the Nazis had their own "Black" works and had gone down the road of "gravity deflection"...and messing with the space/time continium.


Actually, he just quotes some crazy old Polish dude, and takes his accounts at face value. Not exactly investigative journalism at its finest, but when you are trying to sell a book...



Zero Point is the space between atoms...


So-called 'Zero Point Energy' is simply the lowest level of energy possible (and always present) at the quantum level. It is an effect way below the scale of atoms.

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Posted: 9/28/2006 7:14:56 AM

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
I think we have mastered antigravity and invisibility. Invisibility can be achieved using something called metamaterials, from what I've read.


I firmly believe invisibility has been achieved and employed.

When you consider someone in government really fucks up they just flat disappear & are never found to be held responsable or accountable.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 7:17:08 AM

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Jmurman:
Cook asserts that the US had gotten HUGE amounts of data from the Nazis at the end of WW2. It seems that the Nazis had their own "Black" works and had gone down the road of "gravity deflection"...and messing with the space/time continium.


Actually, he just quotes some crazy old Polish dude, and takes his accounts at face value. Not exactly investigative journalism at its finest, but when you are trying to sell a book...



Zero Point is the space between atoms...


So-called 'Zero Point Energy' is simply the lowest level of energy possible (and always present) at the quantum level. It is an effect way below the scale of atoms.

img242.imageshack.us/img242/6677/zpmgu6.jpg


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Posted: 9/28/2006 7:22:38 AM
Nikolai Tesla…

That guy was experimenting with and theorizing some seriously freaky and seriously advanced rsearch 100 years ago…

ANdy
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Posted: 9/28/2006 7:52:24 AM
Everything you hear and see on a television or movie screen is true.

Do not doubt or question your masters, and move along, there is nothing to discuss in this thread.

Here's the thing -
Smart men can model all sorts of physical ideas with advanced mathematics. Occasionally someone comes along with sufficient knowledge in seemingly unrelated topics and puts them all together to make hardware from those mathematic inventions.

I'm just guessing, but there are probably dozens of radical ideas lanquishing for either the right integrator or more computational power to come along.

I've said this more than once, after exposure to a fair cross section of the Boeing Company - the Boeing Company can do anything we can dream of given the time and money. One executive added: "and the right sponsor".

On the other hand, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over hidden alien technology.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 7:59:18 AM
Oh we DO have invisibility capability....ints just invisible right now so ya cant see it.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 8:09:36 AM

Originally Posted By AeroE:
On the other hand, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over hidden alien technology.


You don't lose much sleep...THAT YOU KNOW OF!
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Posted: 9/28/2006 8:18:34 AM
i have no doubt that the american mind and will is capeable of incredible things. while i dont doubt there are black projects that would baffel our minds, how many are needed? we assume if we had them we would of course use them.

a B-2 costs $2billion is powered by conventional means, and is escentially invisible to all our enemies. do we need a $10billion invisible anti gravity propultion plane? theres no real known benefit to traveling the vastness of space. what purpose does a intergalactic space ship serve? when, if we ever need any such thing i bet america mysteriously comes up with it 10 years before the rest of the world. as usual.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 8:27:29 AM

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Anything you saw in Star Wars, for example, we can do.



"LUDACRIS SPEED!!!"






jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 10:10:01 AM

Originally Posted By vito113:
Nikolai Tesla…

That guy was experimenting with and theorizing some seriously freaky and seriously advanced rsearch 100 years ago…

ANdy


Yes he was. That was a hundred years ago, and he was able to do things that would be consider science fiction today.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 10:26:15 AM

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Nikolai Tesla…

That guy was experimenting with and theorizing some seriously freaky and seriously advanced rsearch 100 years ago…

ANdy


Yes he was. That was a hundred years ago, and he was able to do things that would be consider science fiction today.



Yep, he wrote the first published paper on directed energy weapons in 1909! some invention of his in Colorado Springs supposedly generated electricity from the air. He was up there with Edison in terms of being a visionary.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 11:04:25 AM


vito113
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Posted: 9/28/2006 11:09:55 AM

Originally Posted By BLACKeR:
i have no doubt that the american mind and will is capeable of incredible things. while i dont doubt there are black projects that would baffel our minds, how many are needed? we assume if we had them we would of course use them.

a B-2 costs $2billion is powered by conventional means, and is escentially invisible to all our enemies. do we need a $10billion invisible anti gravity propultion plane? theres no real known benefit to traveling the vastness of space. what purpose does a intergalactic space ship serve? when, if we ever need any such thing i bet america mysteriously comes up with it 10 years before the rest of the world. as usual.






How else will Xenu rule the Galactic Confederacy and keep those Thetans in check?

ANdy
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Posted: 9/28/2006 11:21:22 AM
This thread has been probed and declared Classified G2010/Gray Eyes Only
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Posted: 9/28/2006 11:33:49 AM

Originally Posted By ugagrad06:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Anything you saw in Star Wars, for example, we can do.



"LUDACRIS SPEED!!!"




"WE CAN'T STOP HE HAVE TO SLOW DOWN FIRST!"

or

"Suck! Suck! Suck!"



And a few posts up, is that Starscream?!?
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jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 12:02:42 PM
The first Ben Rich quote made after some sort of seminar given shortly before he died, IIRC, and the second was reportedly said to his friend shortly before he died, and it was his friend who said that he said it.

Things to think about

Before people die, they often get the desire to come clean - to make amends with the brother they haven't spoken to in 20 years, etc. Was Ben Rich "coming clean" as much as he could without violating his oath, by alluding to some very interesting technologies? People, before they die, often tend to be more honest than normal as well. So if he indeed said these things, then we must be much more advanced in technology than we are led to believe. Now, to the fellow who mockingly said "I BELIEVE EVERYTHING I SEE ON TV", kiss off - I saw the man interviewed, the producers of the show read his CV, etc. Why assume the man is lying because what he says contradicts your world view. Ultra-skeptics are just as irrational as the people who believe everything they hear. I also know we some very smart engineers here, but just because you do not know of a technology we may have discovered existing, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. These things are highly compartmentalized, and if you are not specifically read onto a project, you won't know about it, period. Even the research gets classified in some cases if they think it could lead to something that would give strategic advantage, so you won't read about it in the journals.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 12:17:26 PM
jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 12:39:21 PM

Originally Posted By Osirus23:
www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=2413

WHOAH


Please tell me what it is before I click on it.
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jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 12:44:16 PM

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Everything you hear and see on a television or movie screen is true.

Do not doubt or question your masters, and move along, there is nothing to discuss in this thread.

Here's the thing -
Smart men can model all sorts of physical ideas with advanced mathematics. Occasionally someone comes along with sufficient knowledge in seemingly unrelated topics and puts them all together to make hardware from those mathematic inventions.

I'm just guessing, but there are probably dozens of radical ideas lanquishing for either the right integrator or more computational power to come along.

I've said this more than once, after exposure to a fair cross section of the Boeing Company - the Boeing Company can do anything we can dream of given the time and money. One executive added: "and the right sponsor".

On the other hand, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over hidden alien technology.


I don't believe in Alien technology either. As an expert in your area - do you realize just how advanced the Nazi's were, that some of the new ideas you hear about today had already been thought of by them back in 1944-45? We brought a lot of those scientists over here to work for us after the war. Some went into Rocketry - von Braun, some went into computing - if these same folks were holed up in some research facility out in the middle of nowhere, pursuing these ideas to their conclusions, there is no friggin telling what they and their students may have come up with in the 50 years since the war.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 1:44:00 PM

Originally Posted By ALLANJ:





I'd be alllll over that!!!
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Posted: 9/28/2006 1:51:20 PM
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Posted: 9/28/2006 1:52:46 PM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 1:56:16 PM by Fletchette]

<several different responses saying that if we had such technology it would get out as it would be a huge benefit to the national economy and defense>


While I agree such technology, if it exists, would be greatly beneficial, you are assuming that the people who hold this technology have America's best interests in mind. They may or may not.

If they do, they may be attempting to use some sort of cost/benefit analysis. Example: would having better launch vehicles than the Space Shuttle, which risks the lives of seven or less astronauts each launch be worth risking a national or global "War of the Worlds" type scare? How many people would die then? What damage would that cause to the economy? Maybe continued use of the Space Shuttle isn't so bad...

If they do NOT have this nation's best interest in mind, they have even more reason to keep the lid on such technology. Let's face it, people with special status tend to get arrogant and look down on "the little people". Those with said technology would continue to decide that "we're not ready for it" and keep living in their little future worlds, content on having a much better understanding of the universe than everyone else. The several billion dollars of top-top-secret funding that doesn't get debated in Congress doesn't hurt either.

There is yet another twist in this scenario; what if the group of people are globalists. In that case, they may not have America's best interest in mind, but rather the planet's. If you are in contact with aliens, which would view us as a planet, not a country, this would be a rather easy mindset to adopt. "Earthlings" rather than "Americans".

One last footnote: Aviation Week did publish a story that several engineers leaked info to the magazine that the B-2 Stealth Bomber used a type of anti-gravity propulsion to assist it in flight. They said that the bomber charges the leading edge of the wing to several thousand volts for some reason. One article, no follow up.

So when you say "it would have leaked", you're right. It has.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:00:32 PM
Having a wonderful technology does not necessarily equate to it becoming available for general use. Many People are evil and people are greedy. There is much more money to be made in treating cancer than in curing cancer, for example. Say a cure for colon cancer was discovered in some pharmaceutical firm and not at a research university. I have no doubt some folks, somewhere would be performing a cost/benefit analysis of releasing the news, especially if that same company makes a lot of money off of chemicals used in chemotherapy.
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Harlikwin
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:14:09 PM
I think the other thing to consider is how dangerous would this stuff be if it got out into the general public. Sure a Mr. Fusion sitting on the back of deloran is great. But something that produces 3.7billion Jigga!Watts!(tm) might also be misused by your friendly neigborhood terrorist to blow up a city. That in and of itself might be reason enough to keep stuff like new power generation technologies under wraps. Not to mention what the social effects of unlimited free power be to extant social/economic systems. I think an intriguing look at that is presented in neal stephensons diamond age. And that society looks way different than ours, and i'm sure it wouldn't neccisarily change without alot chaos in the interim.
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Dilbert_556
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:16:50 PM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2006 2:19:32 PM by Dilbert_556]

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By Osirus23:
www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=2413

WHOAH


Please tell me what it is before I click on it.


It's pretty "out there" but it is strangely relevant to this thread in a tinfoil hat kind of way.
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attack
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:22:25 PM
If there were advanced ships being produced we would know about it. It is impossible to keep a project a secret. They could not keep the stealth fighter a secret. We knew all about the stealth fighter long before it was ever public announced. Tom Clancy wrote about in Red Storm Rising, Microprose produce a game and Revell sold a model kit.
Forest
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:28:26 PM

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
....Before people die, they often get the desire to come clean - to make amends with the brother they haven't spoken to in 20 years, etc. ....


And some people have incredibly warped senses of humor.

If we had anti-grav the DOD would not be risking expensive spy satelites on risky and expensive chemical rockets.
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:32:20 PM

Originally Posted By attack:
If there were advanced ships being produced we would know about it. It is impossible to keep a project a secret. They could not keep the stealth fighter a secret. We knew all about the stealth fighter long before it was ever public announced. Tom Clancy wrote about in Red Storm Rising, Microprose produce a game and Revell sold a model kit.


Read my post above. If stealth technology "leaked" why do you say that alien technology has NOT leaked? There are plenty of games/models kits/movies about aliens.
jkstexas2001
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Posted: 9/28/2006 2:40:24 PM
I don't think that we learned anything from aliens, btw. You mentioned the Nazi Bell antigravity experiment. There are people right now working with these triangular frames comprised of wire filaments that rise off of the ground when then the introduce 30,000 volts. I think the site is www.americanantigravity.com. If these folks are building devices that use electricity to produce lift in their garages, what do you think Boeing, with millions to spend on the technology, has already achieved in the area?
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