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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 9/6/2001 11:41:21 PM EDT
Court Rules Police May Ask Drivers about Guns (CNSNews.com) - Do you have a loaded gun in your car? A federal appeals court in Denver says police may ask that question, even if the officer has no reason to suspect the driver has a weapon with him. "The terrifying truth is that officers face a very real risk of being assaulted with a dangerous weapon each time they stop a vehicle," the full court said in its ruling, issued Wednesday. The case stems from a traffic stop in 1999, in which an Oklahoma Highway patrol officer stopped a car at a seatbelt checkpoint and asked the driver if he had a gun in his pickup truck. The driver said yes; police searched the vehicle, and they found illegal drugs. A trial judge threw out the drug evidence, calling the drug discovery the result of an illegal search. Prosecutors appealed; a three-judge panel agreed that the search (and gun question) was unconstitutional; and now the full appeals panel has taken the rare step of reversing the three-judge-panel's ruling. Wire services report the ruling applies only to the six states in the 10th U.S. Circuit, including Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming and Kansas.
Link Posted: 9/6/2001 11:47:31 PM EDT
Guy should have lied, period. This decision is, however, pure b.s., and it's just a good indication of our far our rights as citizens have fallen. Eric The(GuyShouldn'tHaveHadDrugsWithHisGunsEither­!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:19:15 AM EDT
I like it how they can search your car no matter what answer you give. If they want to search your car bad enough, it will happen.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:44:46 AM EDT
"I would like to search the car for my safety, and yours" [puke]
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:51:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2001 1:14:53 AM EDT by Stealth]
Whatever happened to: ------------------------- AMENDMENT IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ------------------------------- Oh man, almost every new "law" I see pounces on one of the individual rights. Only a handful protest, and those who do are generally categorized as "kooks" by the media. I'm tired of this, but I'm afraid we who are, are too few to make a difference. Think I'll mail another letter, bitch another bitch, and move on to the next one. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 1:01:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 1:20:29 AM EDT
God damn, I love that song! havn't heard that in a while.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 2:26:52 AM EDT
Yup, on the most part a LEO can search you, your car, your house and your only recourse is 3 weeks later after you've spent $18k on an attorney.
Wire services report the ruling applies only to the six states in the 10th U.S. Circuit, including Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming and Kansas.
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I'm missing some logic here or something. So according the the story, the ruling will only affect the jurisdiction on the 10th Court? Although there have been many cases where a Circuit Court's decision affected the nation. There's also been numerous cases where one Circuit Court quotes another Circuit Court case as a basis for making their decision. Much of the 2nd Amendment cases in the Circuit Courts were decided this way. If you backtrack them, you'll find that they all link back to just a handful of cases where the Circuit Courts actually made a decision on their own. - Robbie
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 4:49:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 4:53:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2001 5:00:25 AM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... I always "beat them to the punch". I let him/her know it as soon as I get pulled over. If they ask for my drivers license, I'll produce my CCW permit as well. Once that happens they usually don't even ask to look at it. ... a low profile and a "appearent" lack of concern usually bores the cop and they split. I like that
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 4:57:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: If asked, lie like a rug.
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Holy shit man. Are you seriously recommending users here commit a felony every time they are pulled over? I know from some of the flame wars I have started that a lot of you hate America and have no respect for her laws, but shit man that's downright arrogant to lie to an LEO about a firearm in your car. That is a great way to lose your CHL as well as gun rights for the rest of us. For God's sake if a cop asks you if you have a gun in your car and you do, tell the guy. I cannot believe you committed this felonious rambling to text online. Either arrogant or stupid. I don't know.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 5:02:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2001 5:35:49 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 5:30:41 AM EDT
Thanks for the clarification thebeekeeper1. I live in Texas, where we are still pretty free. So it seemed from a texan point of view you meant carry a gun in your car that you can use. Shit if the gun is unloaded and stored, what difference does it make? You should still tell the LEO it is in the car. I guess I have not had too many bad cops or something. I try to be respectful to LEO's They have a very lame job, but very essential. Anytime I am in my car, I have at least 1 pistol cocked and locked. After all this is Houston, plenty O' crime here. Whenever I get pulled over I keep my hands on on the drivers side door so five o keeps cool. Anytime I am going to the gun range or a show to sell or trade, I simply tell the LEO what is in my car and where. I really hope it never get's so bad in Texas I have to lie to a cop. Not looking forward to the baton across the head ala Rodney King when mr. Cop get's pissed. I guess your laws differ. Here the felony awaits.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 5:41:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 5:45:06 AM EDT
Ar50troll.. It isn't a crime to lie to a cop...and whatever I choose to tell him, or not tell him, is my business. Personally, I wouldn't offer shit. QS
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 8:35:50 AM EDT
Here's a guy who could have used a gun in his car: [URL]http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTopNews/bear_sep6-cp.html[/URL] "Steven Fontaine, the young man whose car struck the bear, said he knew it was big when the injured animal lifted his car off the ground to hobble back into the bush..."
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:05:16 AM EDT
"Probable Cause" vs. "Fishing Expeditions" vs. "Entrapment" An object that is in "Public View" (a "Hash" pipe laying on the seat beside you) would be cause enough for searching further. Suspecting that you have a "Hash Pipe" hidden somewhere is not good enough. Kind of like being presented a Search Warrant that lists a "Piano" as the object of the search. I don't believe that they can make you open your gun safe to see if you have any illegal guns inside, since obviously a piano will not fit inside the safe. Well maybe most safe's. Some of you guy's might have "Walk-in-Vaults". The 2nd and 4th Amendments are obviously tied together, as they both a being abused by "Government Agencies" I may be rusty on my comments as it's been 20 years since I was involved with the legal part of "Search and Seizure" (In the Military). Had much more leeway in the Military for Searches, as you could do a "Random Scheduled, Blanket Search" (You may well have a target in mind). As this search could be a surprise inspection anytime, kind of like the ones they do in prisons. Saying that you have an "Illegal Weapon" on this site would be interesting how the "Law" would address this. "Spontaneous Confession?" Ha. Come on, I know there is a lawyer or two on this site.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:31:43 AM EDT
Even though we do all of our financial dealings with [b]CASH[/b], even though I receive my paychecks on a bi-weekly basis, even though I do my banking in a shit-hole of a town loaded with crack-dealers and prostitutes on the corners, I would [b]NEVER[/b] carry a loaded firearm in my vehicle. It's against Ohio law, ya know.... [:D] ....dripping sarcasm....
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:49:59 AM EDT
I used to give in to that shit but the last time they asked me if they could search my car I told them to get a warrant.They had me by the side of the road for 3-4 hours and then they finally gave up and let me go.All they would have found was a perfectly legal Glock unloaded in it's case in the trunk of my car but I am not going to make this shit easy on them ever again.I'll stand out there all day if I have to and waste their time for nothing just to make them think twice before they do it again.Next time I see that little sawed off polyester commando I'm sure he will be looking for a reason to stop me but sure as hell won't ask to search my car!Remember that they are lazy as hell(except a select few) and if they think you will make them really have to work they will leave you alone from then on. sopmodm4
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:02:57 AM EDT
Heck, every time I'm asked the question: "Do you have any weapons in your car?" I respond; "I don't know, what do ya need?" Usually they beat me and drag my smartass out of the drivers side window. But damn, I teach those idiots a thing or two every time. My personal favorite is, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I like to say, "I hope it's not for the two illegal machineguns and the key of coke in the trunk."
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:04:42 AM EDT
If you are carrying within the law, tell the truth. But, do not give them permission to search if you have anything illegal. If you have an illegal gun simply respond "I refuse to answer that question. I take the 5th." They'll probaly still search, but at least you'll have some recourse when it comes before a judge. As for me, all my Guns are in plain view, so that I can cross into Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, and Louisiana without problems. Though, I have to remove the Clip in Alabama. If they ask I'd have to say yes since saying no would be an obvious lie. And since my guns are all legal I have nothing to worry about. I have a Pickup Truck with a Gun Rack, so any cop who pulls me over knows I'm armed.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:13:15 AM EDT
[b]ACLU just took a dump over this one[/b] Sometimes we all think alike. [url]http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=749039&pic=none&TP=getarticle[/url]
A Denver appeals court further eroded the Fourth Amendment by allowing police to ask stopped motorists whether they have a loaded gun, a civil liberties lawyer said Thursday. "How many of these things have to happen before we realize we're living in a police state and not a place governed by the Constitution?" asked Micheal Salem, a volunteer attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union.
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Link Posted: 9/7/2001 10:31:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sopmodm4: I used to give in to that shit but the last time they asked me if they could search my car I told them to get a warrant.They had me by the side of the road for 3-4 hours and then they finally gave up and let me go.All they would have found was a perfectly legal Glock unloaded in it's case in the trunk of my car but I am not going to make this shit easy on them ever again.I'll stand out there all day if I have to and waste their time for nothing just to make them think twice before they do it again.Next time I see that little sawed off polyester commando I'm sure he will be looking for a reason to stop me but sure as hell won't ask to search my car!Remember that they are lazy as hell(except a select few) and if they think you will make them really have to work they will leave you alone from then on.
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sopmodm4 - The only mistake you made here was not following it up with a departmental complaint on these officers. Complaints like this are great because - 1) they don't cost you a dime, 2) the department is compelled to invesigate it, causing the officer discomfort like he caused you, 3) it goes in his Personnel File and will affect future promotions. These complaints are [b]so damaging[/b] that officers have actually sued citizens who filed false ones that had greatly harmed their careers. Of course, if everything you say in the complaint is true, then you're at no risk. The truth is always an affirmative defense! Also, whenever carrying anything in your car that you really don't want to be subjected to a police search, put it in a locked container. My favorite is a cheap Samsonite briefcase on the passenger seat. You can have have all the guns, drugs, pornography, etc. (whatever you like to carry around), readily available right there. But if you're getting pulled over, merely spin the combination dials with your thumb and it's now locked. If the officer wants to search it, he has only two options - you give him the combination (then you've consented), or he has to forcibly pry it open. Of course, it'll be really hard to explain to the judge that you gave him permission to take a crowbar to your case. And a briefcase in and of itself is not suspicious in any way. Everyone here should always keep a copy of the ACLU's "Bust Card" in their wallet or glove compartment: [url]http://www.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html[/url] and refer to it whenever being "hassled by the man." It will help you remember your rights when under the stress of police harassment. I had one officer tell me that he's even had a few "detainees" pull it out and hand it to him. Hey, might as well let the ACLU work [i]for[/i] you for a change. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:11:29 PM EDT
Why is it that no one here can see what is right in front of their faces? The Bill of Rights is meaningless. But, just because some stupid court said that cops have the right to ask, it doesn't mean that you no longer have the right to say "None of your business. You have no reason for hassling me today, and if you do try to search my vehicle, *you* an *I* going to have a problem. So if you know what is good for you, you will just let me be on my way now." It's all about intimidation. It helps if you are older than the cop though. Then you can pull the whole "you're nothing but a snot-nosed punk kid with a crew cut and too much attitude" routine. Calling them brownshirts also might work. Most cops today don't even know who the Browshirts were.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:12:57 PM EDT
short answer, yes.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 12:52:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Steel_Rat: sopmodm4 - The only mistake you made here was not following it up with a departmental complaint on these officers. Complaints like this are great because - 1) they don't cost you a dime, 2) the department is compelled to invesigate it, causing the officer discomfort like he caused you, 3) it goes in his Personnel File and will affect future promotions. These complaints are [b]so damaging[/b] that officers have actually sued citizens who filed false ones that had greatly harmed their careers. Of course, if everything you say in the complaint is true, then you're at no risk. The truth is always an affirmative defense!
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Maybe you all should take a looksee at this site about what might happen when you ask to file a complaint: [url]policeabuse.org/[/url] By the way, the organization is run by a former cop of 10 years.
Link Posted: 9/7/2001 9:37:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the link!
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