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LibertyShip
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:27:23 PM
Barr sues Bloomberg on behalf of gun dealer

The Associated Press
Published on: 07/20/06

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr filed a lawsuit against New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg Thursday, claiming his attempt to crack down on gun dealers was "careless, willful and clearly illegal."

The legal action, filed in Cobb County Superior Court, is in response to a federal lawsuit filed by Bloomberg in May alleging that 15 firearm brokers in five states, including Georgia, were "rogue gun dealers."

Barr said his client, Smyrna gun dealer Adventure Outdoors, was deceived and defamed by Bloomberg's lawsuit. His lawsuit seeks $400 million in damages.

"We didn't start this fight. They did," Barr told a cheering crowd in Marietta's city square. "But we intend to finish it and win."

Bloomberg's lawsuit claims that the dealer sold 21 guns over a seven-year period that were used in New York crimes. The shop's owner, Jay Wallace, said his name has been "trashed in the public eye of the nation."

"I've run my business with honesty and integrity, and I take pride in being part of the firearm industry," he said.

The announcement took on a patriotic tune as flag-waving supporters cheered the news of the lawsuit and danced.

"We will fight to prove the Constitution of the United States is still intact, and that Mr. Bloomberg's fight to abolish the Second Amendment must and will fail," said Edwin Marger, a Jasper lawyer who filed the lawsuit with Barr.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/0720metgunshop.html
BozemanMT
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:28:16 PM


yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aimless
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:33:14 PM
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?
"Truth, Justice and the American way" not "truth, justice and all that stuff."
Chaingun
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:35:20 PM
Bloomberg was a democRat before he became a RINO
"My name is Ronald Reagan. What's yours?" –introducing himself after delivering a prep school commencement address. The individual responded, "I'm your son, Mike," to which Reagan replied, "Oh, I didn't recognize you"
The_Macallan
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:37:52 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 1:38:19 PM by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?



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Squid1jz
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:38:00 PM
Glad someone is fighting back, a gunstore here in town was included in that whole mess.
Wobblin-Goblin
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:39:28 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

So, three guns per year wound up in NYC.

Not only is that a pretty small amount, if they were sold to *legal* buyers in a *legal* manner...everybody can kiss his ass.
Grandfathering weapons only puts off until tomorrow what tyranny cannot accomplish today.
bullyforyou
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:40:37 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 1:41:46 PM by bullyforyou]


dupe.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=483910

P.S.: this is my first called dupe, EVER!
Admiral_Crunch
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:42:29 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 1:42:52 PM by Admiral_Crunch]
I've bought two pistols from that store, and both times they were super anal about the forms being filled out precisely. They are a good store.
"All programmers are playwrights, and all computers are lousy actors." -Anon.
sixgunsblazing
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:46:02 PM
21 guns over 7 years?

3 guns per year involved in crimes in NYC?

Out of how many crimes in NYC?

I'm sure it makes and interesting headline, but it's statisticaly unimportant.
I for one loved the penis! -R32


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Aimless
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:46:24 PM

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?





Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.
"Truth, Justice and the American way" not "truth, justice and all that stuff."
-MindField-
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:53:40 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?





Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.



Unless you can prove that the gunshop sold the guns KNOWING they were going to be used in a crime or KNEW it was a straw purchase, you ain't got shit...


Good for them I hope they win
Garand_Shooter
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Posted: 7/20/2006 1:58:25 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?





Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.


Three guns a year out of THOUSANDs (we are talking about a major dealer here) does not make one a rouge dealer.

The BATFE, whom all these traces had to be done through, tracks what dealers have a higher percentage of thier guns end up in crimes and targets them. Evidently they were not statisticly signifigant enough for the BATFE to take action.
If logistics was easy they would call it tactics!
The_Macallan
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:00:50 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??





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RevDeadCorpse
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:03:15 PM
Good. I hope Barr has the ducks lined up to nail Bloomies head to stump.

I hate gun grabbers.
"Sooner or later, you have to stand your ground. Whether anyone else does or not." - Michael Badnarik

"Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. "-El Neil
Brians_45
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:04:45 PM

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??







+1 Did DU hack Aimless' account?
Originally Posted By rogue007:
I would rather eat a cleveland steamer than own a glock.


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Aimless
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:08:00 PM

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??







No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place. You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.
"Truth, Justice and the American way" not "truth, justice and all that stuff."
FlamingGlory
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:09:13 PM
It would be nice, if Bloomberg got slapped for filing frivilous suits.
RevDeadCorpse
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:12:02 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.


So you approve of Bloomberg's actions then?

And you are Site Staff? WTF???
"Sooner or later, you have to stand your ground. Whether anyone else does or not." - Michael Badnarik

"Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. "-El Neil
RevDeadCorpse
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:13:38 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:


No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place. You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.


Utter crap. Because people are getting away with straw purchases, you approve of Bloombergs ban on ALL legal sales and crossing State lines to go after perfectly legal dealers in other States?

Again, WTF???
"Sooner or later, you have to stand your ground. Whether anyone else does or not." - Michael Badnarik

"Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. "-El Neil
The_Macallan
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:20:07 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 2:20:55 PM by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??

No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place.

You started this inanity with this question: "Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true? That was referring to the 3-per-year over the past 7 years mentioned in the opening article.

Now you're switching it to a completely different story about 30 guns bought in one month!? You're debate-fu sucks.




You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

Far more people die from DUIs than from gang-killings.

The "logic" that you and Bloomberg want to use to go after gun-dealers falls apart when used on ANYTHING other than gun-dealers (like liquor stores, car-dealers, etc.) which makes it painfully clear that the issue in New Yawk is not about reducing killing and crime - it's simply just about putting gun-dealers out of business - period.



I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.

And I know LOTS of places where kids can get alcohol with NO ID and then go drive drunk and kill thousands of more people than gangbangers do every year.

Like I said, this Bloomberg/NewYawker bullshit has nothing to do with stopping crime or reducing deaths - it's about putting gun-dealers out of business and getting rid of guns.

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."
~ Sen. Howard Metzenbaum
.

Hasn't changed one bit.
CAPITOL TOLL-FREE SWITCHBOARD: (888) 355-3588
Call Your Representatives TODAY - 24hr line.
*** Vote "NO" on amnesty for illegals ***
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Aimless
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:21:21 PM

Originally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.


So you approve of Bloomberg's actions then?

And you are Site Staff? WTF???


I missed where I said that, you are a high school graduate? WTF?
"Truth, Justice and the American way" not "truth, justice and all that stuff."
Aimless
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:22:46 PM

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??

No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place.

You started this inanity with this question: "Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true? That was referring to the 3-per-year over the past 7 years mentioned in the opening article.

Now you're switching it to a completely different story about 30 guns bought in one month!? You're debate-fu sucks.




You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

Far more people die from DUIs than from gang-killings.

The "logic" that you and Bloomberg want to use to go after gun-dealers falls apart when used on ANYTHING other than gun-dealers (like liquor stores, car-dealers, etc.) which makes it painfully clear that the issue in New Yawk is not about reducing killing and crime - it's simply just about putting gun-dealers out of business - period.



I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.

And I know LOTS of places where kids can get alcohol with NO ID and then go drive drunk and kill thousands of more people than gangbangers do every year.

Like I said, this Bloomberg/NewYawker bullshit has nothing to do with stopping crime or reducing deaths - it's about putting gun-dealers out of business and getting rid of guns.

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."
~ Sen. Howard Metzenbaum
.

Hasn't changed one bit.


Okay so selling guns to gang bangers is the same as selling booze to high school kids?
"Truth, Justice and the American way" not "truth, justice and all that stuff."
Torf
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:23:02 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??







No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place. You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.
shootemup
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:23:41 PM
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?
cheaptrickfan
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:23:47 PM
But ya'll gotta remember - its not the validity of the crime, its the seriousness of the charge!!!
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vanilla_gorilla
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:24:22 PM
I find it hard to believe something like this is even being debated on a gun board. Apparently, those who say the NRA is too willing to give in haven't visited here.
You've just dumped a scumbag. Don't put your gun away. Scan the area. You probably will never be involved in another shooting in your life. Make the most of it. This is a target rich environment. See if there is someone else that needs to be shot.
markm
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:25:07 PM

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

dupe.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=483910

P.S.: this is my first called dupe, EVER!


+d00p!
Torf
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:25:23 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??

No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place.

You started this inanity with this question: "Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true? That was referring to the 3-per-year over the past 7 years mentioned in the opening article.

Now you're switching it to a completely different story about 30 guns bought in one month!? You're debate-fu sucks.




You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

Far more people die from DUIs than from gang-killings.

The "logic" that you and Bloomberg want to use to go after gun-dealers falls apart when used on ANYTHING other than gun-dealers (like liquor stores, car-dealers, etc.) which makes it painfully clear that the issue in New Yawk is not about reducing killing and crime - it's simply just about putting gun-dealers out of business - period.



I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.

And I know LOTS of places where kids can get alcohol with NO ID and then go drive drunk and kill thousands of more people than gangbangers do every year.

Like I said, this Bloomberg/NewYawker bullshit has nothing to do with stopping crime or reducing deaths - it's about putting gun-dealers out of business and getting rid of guns.

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."
~ Sen. Howard Metzenbaum
.

Hasn't changed one bit.


Okay so selling guns to gang bangers is the same as selling booze to high school kids?


He never claimed that it was the same, in fact, he made a good point that booze to teens is WORSE!

RIF
The_Macallan
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:26:05 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true?

Does it matter?

How many cars that have crossed state lines are used in DUI-injuries and homicides in New Yawk?

Why not go after Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda and all the other car manufacturers for making such high-speed assault-cars?
Well, let me tell you how things work for real. A gangsta has his girlfriend go to a southern state buy a shitload of Raven, Lorcins or other craptastic guns then he resells them here to his gangbanger buddies. A variation on the theme is now having dopey college kids in the south buy guns then illegally resell them up here for thugs. Selling guns to The Boot Camp Gang doesn't make you a patriot.

WTF!???

Are you on dope???

THREE FUCKING GUNS A YEAR!!!!

That's a "shitload" to you!???

And how is that any different than someone using a fake ID to buy alcohol for their underage friends to go drinking and wind up killing dozens of innocent people in DUIs every year in New Yawk? So you wanna go sue Budweiser, Seagrams and 7-11 because CRIMINALS misuse their products???

Whatsamattawityou!??

No, not that guy you dope, there were something like 30 guns seized all purchased within the same month from the same place.

You started this inanity with this question: "Is the thing about his having 21 guns show up in NYC true? That was referring to the 3-per-year over the past 7 years mentioned in the opening article.

Now you're switching it to a completely different story about 30 guns bought in one month!? You're debate-fu sucks.




You equate selling booze to high school kids to selling guns to an organized gang?

Far more people die from DUIs than from gang-killings.

The "logic" that you and Bloomberg want to use to go after gun-dealers falls apart when used on ANYTHING other than gun-dealers (like liquor stores, car-dealers, etc.) which makes it painfully clear that the issue in New Yawk is not about reducing killing and crime - it's simply just about putting gun-dealers out of business - period.



I know a place where you can go anytime you want, buy handguns right from the FFL even though you are a NY state resident, using a NY state driver's license and bring them back and resell them. Those places are going to result in new federal gun laws some day, if they aren't stopped on a local level they'll get stopped on a federal level.

And I know LOTS of places where kids can get alcohol with NO ID and then go drive drunk and kill thousands of more people than gangbangers do every year.

Like I said, this Bloomberg/NewYawker bullshit has nothing to do with stopping crime or reducing deaths - it's about putting gun-dealers out of business and getting rid of guns.

"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns."
~ Sen. Howard Metzenbaum
.

Hasn't changed one bit.
Okay so selling guns to gang bangers is the same as selling booze to high school kids?

And suing gun-dealers for criminal misuse of guns is logical but suing car-dealers for criminal misuse of cars is nonsense.

Mmkay.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:26:14 PM

Originally Posted By Torf:


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.


Bloomberg's case will get dismissed on appeal, however if Weinstein gets it could end up going forward since he'll just ignore the federal law anyways. Unless the gunshop has insurance coverage for this,which I doubt as it is probably not covered, they will be bankrupted by a lawsuit in NYC even if they win, unless they're a pretty large shop
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:26:58 PM

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


Probably NYC taxpayers as he said it in the course of his duties as mayor.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:28:08 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Torf:


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.


Bloomberg's case will get dismissed on appeal, however if Weinstein gets it could end up going forward since he'll just ignore the federal law anyways. Unless the gunshop has insurance coverage for this,which I doubt as it is probably not covered, they will be bankrupted by a lawsuit in NYC even if they win, unless they're a pretty large shop


Hence the reason for the Barr lawsuit. One side will blink, and I think I know which side it will be since one side is apparently playing for keeps.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:30:11 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 2:31:14 PM by Torf]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


Probably NYC taxpayers as he said it in the course of his duties as mayor.


That certainly won't endear him to the public if he loses.

I know that Daley would be raked over the coals in Chicago, as liberal as it is, if he cost the city 400 mil on a frivolous lawsuit which only a very vocal minority supports.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:31:02 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Torf:


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.


Bloomberg's case will get dismissed on appeal, however if Weinstein gets it could end up going forward since he'll just ignore the federal law anyways. Unless the gunshop has insurance coverage for this,which I doubt as it is probably not covered, they will be bankrupted by a lawsuit in NYC even if they win, unless they're a pretty large shop

And the Antis and Lawyers win again! W00t!!

Like I said, this has NOTHING to do with addressing the problem of gangs in New Yawk - it's about getting rid of guns by getting rid of legitimate gun-dealers even if simply burying them in legal fees.

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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:31:58 PM

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Torf:


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.


Bloomberg's case will get dismissed on appeal, however if Weinstein gets it could end up going forward since he'll just ignore the federal law anyways. Unless the gunshop has insurance coverage for this,which I doubt as it is probably not covered, they will be bankrupted by a lawsuit in NYC even if they win, unless they're a pretty large shop


Hence the reason for the Barr lawsuit. One side will blink, and I think I know which side it will be since one side is apparently playing for keeps.


Not sure which side you are talking about. I doubt Bloomberg gives a shit about that lawsuit, NYC pays out tons of money to lawsuits every year and that's in terrifying places like the Bronx where they just give money away.

Wait til Spitzer gets into office, he'll make Bloomberg look like Charlton Heston.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:32:39 PM

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Torf:


Sounds like a great reason to attempt to destroy the gun industry and ignore the lawful commerce in arms act.

Look, it will all shake out in court. If there is evidence that Bloomberg is correct, then that will kill the defamation suit. If Bloomberg in incorrect, then he should pay through the nose for willingly targeting innocent individuals for destruction.


Bloomberg's case will get dismissed on appeal, however if Weinstein gets it could end up going forward since he'll just ignore the federal law anyways. Unless the gunshop has insurance coverage for this,which I doubt as it is probably not covered, they will be bankrupted by a lawsuit in NYC even if they win, unless they're a pretty large shop

And the Antis and Lawyers win again! W00t!!

Like I said, this has NOTHING to do with addressing the problem of gangs in New Yawk - it's about getting rid of guns by getting rid of legitimate gun-dealers even if simply burying them in legal fees.



Duh
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:33:26 PM

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

dupe.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=483910

P.S.: this is my first called dupe, EVER!


Dupe, I saw a guy say that the other day
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:34:07 PM

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


It is my understanding that Bloomberg is being sued personally.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:35:05 PM

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


Probably NYC taxpayers as he said it in the course of his duties as mayor.


That certainly won't endear him to the public if he loses.

I know that Daley would be raked over the coals in Chicago, as liberal as it is, if he cost the city 400 mil on a frivolous lawsuit which only a very vocal minority supports.


In NYC? They won't give a shit, he's getting tons of positive press from threatening and pursing gun lawsuits. I don't think it's a "vocal minority" in NYC it is probably a significant majority. To most people in NYC the thought of having a handgun is like what someone having a weaponized biological virus would be in the rest of the country.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:36:17 PM

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


It is my understanding that Bloomberg is being sued personally.


Yeah but he did in the course of his duties as mayor. If NYC cop accidently rear ends you there you would sue him personally in addition to suing the city, but the city would pick up the tab, I doubt this will cost Bloomberg a penny, not that he would care anyways.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:47:52 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 2:49:27 PM by LibertyShip]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


It is my understanding that Bloomberg is being sued personally.


Yeah but he did in the course of his duties as mayor. If NYC cop accidently rear ends you there you would sue him personally in addition to suing the city, but the city would pick up the tab, I doubt this will cost Bloomberg a penny, not that he would care anyways.


Possibly, but such indemnification usually collapses should the indemnified party engage in something like a criminal conspiracy as has been alleged in this case. There are limits in all indemnification clauses and those limits usually involve good judgement, relying on experts, and obeying the law. The operation in Georgia was conducted without the knowledge or consent of local or federal authorities and involved deliberately lying on a 4473 among other things. If Bloomberg had knowledge of this, even after the fact, and condoned it, even with his silence, it's possible that his shield could be pierced.

Given the volume of sales that Adventure Outdoors does, 21 guns over 7 years are so few as to be statistically insignificant. Hell, maybe they were ALL illegal purchases by crooked NYPD officers running back and forth to their vacation homes in Florida.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:54:57 PM

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Wait til Spitzer gets into office, he'll make Bloomberg look like Charlton Heston.

Wait till New York Republicans lose the Senate in (maybe) 2 more election cycles and the whole state legislature goes Democratic. Maybe you'll get lucky and only get mandatory ownership permits and registration of your prebans and ban compliant semi-autos.





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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:59:35 PM
Good!!! Finally a Senator with some balls!!!
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Posted: 7/20/2006 2:59:57 PM

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Where will the settlement damages come from? Bloomberg or the NY taxpayers?


It is my understanding that Bloomberg is being sued personally.


Yeah but he did in the course of his duties as mayor. If NYC cop accidently rear ends you there you would sue him personally in addition to suing the city, but the city would pick up the tab, I doubt this will cost Bloomberg a penny, not that he would care anyways.


Possibly, but such indemnification usually collapses should the indemnified party engage in something like a criminal conspiracy as has been alleged in this case. There are limits in all indemnification clauses and those limits usually involve good judgement, relying on experts, and obeying the law. The operation in Georgia was conducted without the knowledge or consent of local or federal authorities and involved deliberately lying on a 4473 among other things. If Bloomberg had knowledge of this, even after the fact, and condoned it, even with his silence, it's possible that his shield could be pierced.

Given the volume of sales that Adventure Outdoors does, 21 guns over 7 years are so few as to be statistically insignificant. Hell, maybe they were ALL illegal purchases by crooked NYPD officers running back and forth to their vacation homes in Florida.


They'll never disclaim coverage for Bloomberg over this, that's just not likely from a political standpoint. I would assume that NYC is self insured well past whatever this lawsuit may really end up being worth

Hadn't heard that these were sting purchases before, is that the case?

Interesting article on Bloomberg's war on gun-pay attention to the part about the gun courts in NYC www.nytimes.com/2006/04/03/nyregion/03mayor.html?ex=1301716800&en=99a11adde287356a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:01:50 PM

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Wait til Spitzer gets into office, he'll make Bloomberg look like Charlton Heston.

Wait till New York Republicans lose the Senate in (maybe) 2 more election cycles and the whole state legislature goes Democratic. Maybe you'll get lucky and only get mandatory ownership permits and registration of your prebans and ban compliant semi-autos.







I would bet on an attempt to make all New York pistol permits target permits with no carry rights.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:10:59 PM
Yes, they were sting purchases. NYPD came down and hired a local PI firm to provide a local woman to accompany the undercover officer to the stores. He acted as if he was helping her select a firearm, etc. She consumated the purchase, filled out the 4473, swore that she was the end user. Being local, she passed the background check. The cop got it all on a mini-cam. She was using NYPD money and later, I guess, gave the gun to the cop as evidence. No criminal charges were ever brought against the FFL. The civil case was brought on the notion that the FFL, based on the circumstances, should have suspected it was a straw purchase.

Variations of this were done by these NYPD teams throughout the South, at dozens of gun stores, all of which were sued by Bloomberg. Adventure Outdoors just decided to fight back.

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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:14:01 PM

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Yes, they were sting purchases. NYPD came down and hired a local PI firm to provide a local woman to accompany the undercover officer to the stores. He acted as if he was helping her select a firearm, etc. She consumated the purchase, filled out the 4473, swore that she was the end user. Being local, she passed the background check. The cop got it all on a mini-cam. She was using NYPD money and later, I guess, gave the gun to the cop as evidence. No criminal charges were ever brought against the FFL. The civil case was brought on the notion that the FFL, based on the circumstances, should have suspected it was a straw purchase.

Variations of this were done by these NYPD teams throughout the South, at dozens of gun stores, all of which were sued by Bloomberg. Adventure Outdoors just decided to fight back.



Spitzer himself tried some weird gun buy thing himself with a camera hidden in a Cat in the Hat type hat or in some kind of big bag.

That lawsuit sounds fairly useless, I'm sure I've done the same thing with my girlfriend, don't tell bloomberg though.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:20:24 PM
[Last Edit: 7/20/2006 3:21:54 PM by Torf]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Yes, they were sting purchases. NYPD came down and hired a local PI firm to provide a local woman to accompany the undercover officer to the stores. He acted as if he was helping her select a firearm, etc. She consumated the purchase, filled out the 4473, swore that she was the end user. Being local, she passed the background check. The cop got it all on a mini-cam. She was using NYPD money and later, I guess, gave the gun to the cop as evidence. No criminal charges were ever brought against the FFL. The civil case was brought on the notion that the FFL, based on the circumstances, should have suspected it was a straw purchase.

Variations of this were done by these NYPD teams throughout the South, at dozens of gun stores, all of which were sued by Bloomberg. Adventure Outdoors just decided to fight back.



Spitzer himself tried some weird gun buy thing himself with a camera hidden in a Cat in the Hat type hat or in some kind of big bag.

That lawsuit sounds fairly useless, I'm sure I've done the same thing with my girlfriend, don't tell bloomberg though.


It doesn't appear that the store did anything wrong in selling her the gun, therefore it is not a "sting". She and the NYPD should be prosecuted for "straw purchase" though since they conspired to buy a gun through her with no intention of it being her gun. Last I checked, she wasn't family.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:31:28 PM
Unless you can prove that the gunshop sold the guns KNOWING they were going to be used in a crime or KNEW it was a straw purchase, you ain't got shit...


Good for them I hope they win

Bloomberg can't prove that. He knows that and doesn't care. His intent isn't to prove that any of these stores knowingly made an illegal sale. He is simply trying to force these stores to spend large sums of money to defend themselves against the suit and drive them out of business. He is also trying to scare other gun dealers out of the business with the threat of more lawsuits.
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Posted: 7/20/2006 3:36:22 PM

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Yes, they were sting purchases. NYPD came down and hired a local PI firm to provide a local woman to accompany the undercover officer to the stores. He acted as if he was helping her select a firearm, etc. She consumated the purchase, filled out the 4473, swore that she was the end user. Being local, she passed the background check. The cop got it all on a mini-cam. She was using NYPD money and later, I guess, gave the gun to the cop as evidence. No criminal charges were ever brought against the FFL. The civil case was brought on the notion that the FFL, based on the circumstances, should have suspected it was a straw purchase.

Variations of this were done by these NYPD teams throughout the South, at dozens of gun stores, all of which were sued by Bloomberg. Adventure Outdoors just decided to fight back.



Spitzer himself tried some weird gun buy thing himself with a camera hidden in a Cat in the Hat type hat or in some kind of big bag.

That lawsuit sounds fairly useless, I'm sure I've done the same thing with my girlfriend, don't tell bloomberg though.


It doesn't appear that the store did anything wrong in selling her the gun, therefore it is not a "sting". She and the NYPD should be prosecuted for "straw purchase" though since they conspired to buy a gun through her with no intention of it being her gun. Last I checked, she wasn't family.


The article makes it sound like guns from this shop were seized in cirmes in NY, they probably got the ATF to backtrack a bunch of guns used in crimes then used the gunstores that had more than a certain number involved in NYC crimes then sent down NYPD officers to set up the buys as a way to bolster their case ie "Shown here is how Joe's Gunshop sold a gun to our agent, just like they did with joe scumbag who later used the gun in a killer in the bronx" Juries love video even if it doesn't show anything meaningful
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