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Posted: 8/26/2001 1:30:13 PM EST
What do you think is a better rifle and why? Right now I'm going to say the FAL because I have not heard much about the G3.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 1:39:11 PM EST
assuming we're talking about semi-auto versions of both, the FAL is my favorite. Sold all my HK-91s at the top of the market. None of my FALs! Reasons - inexpensive magazines, parts, etc. Barrell can be removed and replaced in home workshop with right tools, HK - good luck! Both have approx. same accuracy. Eric The(FalFan)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 1:42:19 PM EST
I have a Belgian FAL and a HK91 and I love them both, but I would have to give an edge to the FAL for ergonomics and ease of field stripping. Both are very reliable and combat accurate. Mags for the FAL are cheaper, but there are some very good deals on G3 mags right now too.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 1:54:02 PM EST
G3, it is more rugged, more accurate, has more add-ons, and a FAL is as easy to get as aids in africa so why have what everyone else has. And when mags in the US, they are running for 7$ a piece, you cant go wrong.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 2:04:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 2:22:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 2:49:38 PM EST
I give the nod to the FAL. If you are talking similiar dollar amounts for each, there is no comparison. The FAL wins hands down. It has good ergonomics, cheap (really cheap) mags, an adjustable gas system, parts are cheap, less recoil than the HK clones, and is built like a tank.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 3:28:11 PM EST
I have been looking at the CETME rifles out now . I guess they come with either a HESSE or a CAI receiver . About $500 will get you one . Thye are the same family as the H&K . Mags are cheap right now also .
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 3:30:30 PM EST
I saw the G3 mags for about $8 or so used can remember where though.Yes I'm talking about the STG58 or the G# that are rather low in price right now. Scarecrow I was told that the FAL was more rugged then the G3 and I have not see many add-on's for this rifle I'd like to know where you have seen these add on's at.(If it sounds like I'm trying to be a jerk I'm not.) I also have some money to spend on these rifles if I plane on getting one about $1,050.00 right now. I have been looking at the DSA rifle when someone told me the G3 was a better rifle and a better deal he said they where even better then the DSA. He told me why spend $795 on a STG58A DSA rifle when you can spend $100 to $200 lees on a G3 that is a better all around rifle. This guy was someone who was at my gun range when I was going to pick up the FFL for the STG58A he told me to take a look in to it so thats what I'm doing.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 4:12:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1: I saw the G3 mags for about $8 or so used can remember where though.Yes I'm talking about the STG58 or the G# that are rather low in price right now. Scarecrow I was told that the FAL was more rugged then the G3 and I have not see many add-on's for this rifle I'd like to know where you have seen these add on's at.(If it sounds like I'm trying to be a jerk I'm not.) I also have some money to spend on these rifles if I plane on getting one about $1,050.00 right now. I have been looking at the DSA rifle when someone told me the G3 was a better rifle and a better deal he said they where even better then the DSA. He told me why spend $795 on a STG58A DSA rifle when you can spend $100 to $200 lees on a G3 that is a better all around rifle. This guy was someone who was at my gun range when I was going to pick up the FFL for the STG58A he told me to take a look in to it so thats what I'm doing.
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My experience tells me the DSA FAL is a can't-miss choice.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 4:17:35 PM EST
I own a few of each. Like them all. You need to shoot both then decide. If I could only have one it would be the FAL...
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 4:24:58 PM EST
G3 has worked under every climat perfectly, even some members of the SEALS and other spec ops groups everywhere use the G3. Did you say addons? [img]http://www.hkpro.com/SPC/spcrifleparts.jpg[/img] You can make the gun a sniper rifle, a assault rifle, a small carbine, and it does this just as well if not better then the FAL. Out of the box a SAR 8 can do 3/4 inch groups at 100yrds, imagine what adding PSG1 parts would do to those groups. Now the FAL had to be modified by the isrealy's in order to work in the sand (they put channels in the bolt so the sand would not jam it up), the G3 has not *had* to be modified for harsh environtments in any of the country's it has had to be employed and is still being used. The G3 has also one big advantage, NO GAS SYSTEM, which means less cleaning. For reliability, its a equal to the AK, for acuracy its equal and sometime better then most bolt action rifles.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 4:48:13 PM EST
Quality post, Scarecrow. Not to dis' you, but exactly how many countries use the G3 and how many use the FAL? Where are those countries located? Yes, the G3 is a quality firearm, but so is the FAL. Let the numbers do the talking. Again, good post. I happen to disagree, though.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 4:52:05 PM EST
Also, as far as the SEALS go, from what I know, virtually all of them that prefer .308 go with the M14. Someone may know more than me on this one, but you'd have to work hard to disprove it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 5:04:34 PM EST
Yes SEALS use the M14, but they also use the G3, I have however never heard of them using the FAL Some 38 countries that purchased FALs ended up switching to G3s. I have no specifics on which. G3 was manufactured in more countries. The SAS uses the G3 more then the FAL, they actually presently do not use the FAL and have replaced it with the G3 in all roles that the FAL was used. The G3 is still used by more than fifty nations.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 5:09:08 PM EST
Last month I bought a L1A1, and last week I ordered a CETME. I will compare the two as soon as the CETME arrives. I bought the CETME from Wholesale Guns & Ammo, after my "test order" of a rifle kit came in quickly and correctly. OSA
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 5:18:13 PM EST
I wish I could compare these guns by feel, but all here in Canada are banned, So I cannot compare based on feel of the rifles but only knowledge I gained by reading many post and reading many books such as Guns and Ammo or Special Weapons. If we go by endurance and accuracy I would seriously like to know the results when compared. If we are actually comparing HK91's and clones vs pre-ban FAL's and clones there is way too many things to put into considration.
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 5:38:37 PM EST
i owned both the hk 91 and fal. both pre-ban, owned both for over 15 years, and shot both often. i still have the fal. the hk is just as reliable as the fn. no contest.i have had both jam for ammo related reasons. also, compare the two side by side, pay no attention to that dollar sign behind the curtain, and it is obvious that the fn wins the quality and machining award hands down. the fn may have a 'creepy' trigger, the hk has one similar to a gate latch. (an un-oiled gate latch at that)in other words, horrible. absolute accuracy? the hk wins, but not by much.(providing you can learn the trigger) ergonomics? fn, hands down. controllability? fn wins that one by a bunch. far, far, less recoil, and handles like a real rifle should, not like an oil soaked 4x8. (let the flame wars start).
Link Posted: 8/26/2001 6:19:45 PM EST
fal: just as good as a g3 and cheaper then a 4k h&k semi
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 5:27:16 AM EST
To bad no one makes two stage triggers for any of these gun's or at lest one that has a nice clean pull to it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 5:34:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By tayous1: To bad no one makes two stage triggers for any of these gun's or at lest one that has a nice clean pull to it.
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I think you can get a better trigger for a 91/G3, but you have to get the whole PSG trigger group - excellent, but pricey.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 5:53:08 AM EST
Try begging or borrowing, to fire both models, and see what you like it in terms of yourself personally. There is no right or wrong, this is like a woman, a real personal prefernce here. What's right for me may not be for you. All of the neatest gizmos won't do you any good if thumps you in the wrong places.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 6:01:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 6:01:59 AM EST
I own neutered copies of both, a century crap gun HK copy and a ARS SA58 Fal copy, both are great guns. However one thing to consider with the FAL is that if you are tall you might experience some nasty cheek slap with some FAL's, not so with any HK I've ever used. Also The HK just seems more reliable to me, I have never had a problem with my century monkey gun, while the FAL has periodically jammed on me. -Harlikwin
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 6:02:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 6:44:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By brouhaha: About the creepy trigger...Do the FAL's have any sort of trigger upgrades? On the 91 you can get the PSG-1 trigger, or, like on mine, the Williams Set Trigger. Often, the Williams trigger is lighter and crisper than the PSG-1 trigger. brouhaha
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I purchased a new DSA FAL a year ago and the trigger was so-so. The very same model (medium contour barrel, stainless) this year has a much-improved trigger. I was impressed with the new one, especially for an FAL. Scarecrow, nice reply. I won't call you a liar, but I'm skeptical about THAT many countries using the G3. I believe you are correct about the SEALS not using the FAL. As an aside, doesn't the French Foreign Legion have FALs in its inventory?
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:00:36 AM EST
I had a pre-ban HK91 for a while some years back and it was not on par with a bolt gun for accuracy. It was a btich to strip and clean though. It did chew up the brass and it did kick quite a bit. Gun Test did a test a while back comparing the FAL, the HK91 and the M1A. They loved the Fulton Armory M1A and liked the FAL's a lot, but hated the HK91. Today I have an ARS Stg58 FAL and love it, a scope mount that rezero is only $58. Bill Happiness is a warm gun... bang bang, shoot shoot...
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:01:48 AM EST
I had a pre-ban HK91 for a while some years back and it was not on par with a bolt gun for accuracy. It was a btich to strip and clean though. It did chew up the brass and it did kick quite a bit. Gun Test did a test a while back comparing the FAL, the HK91 and the M1A. They loved the Fulton Armory M1A and liked the FAL's a lot, but hated the HK91. Today I have an ARS Stg58 FAL and love it, a scope mount that rezero is only $58. Bill Happiness is a warm gun... bang bang, shoot shoot...
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:01:58 AM EST
I had a pre-ban HK91 for a while some years back and it was not on par with a bolt gun for accuracy. It was a btich to strip and clean though. It did chew up the brass and it did kick quite a bit. Gun Test did a test a while back comparing the FAL, the HK91 and the M1A. They loved the Fulton Armory M1A and liked the FAL's a lot, but hated the HK91. Today I have an ARS Stg58 FAL and love it, a scope mount that rezero is only $58. Bill Happiness is a warm gun... bang bang, shoot shoot...
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 10:12:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin: Quality post, Scarecrow. Not to dis' you, but exactly how many countries use the G3 and how many use the FAL? Where are those countries located? Yes, the G3 is a quality firearm, but so is the FAL. Let the numbers do the talking. Again, good post. I happen to disagree, though.
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One thing to note is that most countries that use the G-3 used the FAL previously. Mexico is one example, as is Germany and most others that use the G-3 except perhaps Spain and Portugal. Norway, Greece, Turkey, and various Middle East and Latin American countries use the G-3. The FAL got a head start on the G-3 in the world wide market, hence it was adopted by more countries. It seems that the G-3 is more reliable (hence the "sand cuts" in some versions of the FAL). And in the past they have been more accurate (although the new American FALs are setting new standards). If they started toe-to-toe, who knows? Of course Israel was not all that happy with the FAL (the Israelis seem to like short spray and pray weapons, so some of thir dislike of the FAL is probably irrational). Personally, I prefer the FAL. Not because it is objectively better, but because of its place in history and its looks. The FAL was a much bigger part of my boyhood SOF fantasies than the G-3. From a practicle point of view, I think the FALs being assembled today in the US are better than the G-3s. Get a DSA Stg-58 and you can't go wrong, or if you are mechanically inclined, buy a G-1 kit from Tapco.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 10:21:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Some 38 countries that purchased FALs ended up switching to G3s. I have no specifics on which.
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Germany (for reasons not based entirly on performance, perhaps) was one. Mexico was another. Norway used the G-3. They probably were using the FAL earlier, but I don't know this for sure. Turkey used German G-1s (FALs), and I'm pretty sure they later used G-3s. My 70s copy of Small Arms of the World list lots of countries as using the FAL, that in fact use the G-3. In most cases, I believe that these countries were using the FAL way back when, then switched over. Ecuador is an example. It is interesting that many of these countries are switching to 5.56 rifles, often the M-16.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 10:53:54 AM EST
I may be wrong, but I thought that alot of countries switched to the G3 because they are cheaper to make and maintian than the FAL. The HK is stamped afterall. All things being equal, cheaper is the way they will go.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 11:25:00 AM EST
Here is my $.02. I tried my friends Century L1A1 and liked it a lot. I read good things about Entreprise and orderd 2 STG58C's. These looked good, but were a lot heavier than the L1A1. Both guns would not cycle right out of the box. One was missing the cut out on either side of the upper for the ammo to feed from the magazine. An hour with a file fixed this. The hammer in the other one kept the bolt from closing. Also, the gas tube was loose and the threads rusted. I had to silver solder the gas tube in place. Then I had to repair the bipod. I could go on, but why? The recoil on the STG58 gave me big time cheak slap (I'm 6'2"). 20 rounds was all my face could take. I believe this is from the muzzle brake. I don't think too much of Entreprise quality anymore. I think if I were to buy an FAL again I would get a DSA. I wish you could get one minus the brake. I sold my FAL and picked up an M1A. I shot the L1A1, STG58 and an M1A side by side and I liked the M1A a lot more. The recoil of the M1A seems like more of a push compared to the FAL. Is the M1A accurate, you bet. I know it costs a little more, but not when compared to quality FAL's (Arizono, DSA etc.) I know you were wondering about the FAL vs. the HK, but this may help you out in the long run. Check out [url]http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles/[/url] for FAL info and [url]http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14.htm[/url] for M-14 info. Luke
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 11:50:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By CassidyGT: I may be wrong, but I thought that alot of countries switched to the G3 because they are cheaper to make and maintian than the FAL. The HK is stamped afterall. All things being equal, cheaper is the way they will go.
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Certainly, this is probably the primary reason. Someone previously mentioned that many more countries made the G-3 than the FAL. This ties in. The FALs wide usage worlwide is often given as an example of its superiority. The Fact that quite a few countries switched to the G-3 pretty much breaks down this argument. The FAL was adopted at a time when it had few competators. Most nations were not about to adopt the M-14. The Italian BM-59 was a cost savings effort (although I know many prefer it to the M-14). The CETEME was an obscure design in a blacksheep European nation (Spain was still under Franco). The French and Swiss went with their own 7.5 mm cartridges and their own rifle designs.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 12:19:39 PM EST
I got all my information from gun magazines I have collected over time, so forgive me if the info is from the 80's. And you cannot insult the G3 for being adopted for being cheap to produce, or else you would be insulting all the M16's that the US has been pumping out from its vietnam surplus for 10 cents a dozen. Also it cant be so easy to produce, Special Weapons still cant figure out how to make any of their clones work. Now remember even back in the old days the war between the FN FAL and the G3 was never won. Everyone had a different opinion, just like some people cant make up their minds over a AK or a AR. Its all up to taste. Overall both have proven to be worthy rifles. Personaly, the HK G3/91 is my dream rifle, I was saving up all my money working in a stockroom just to get one with my new license, but a week before I had the money, It was banned, and I was never to be eligable for the license to get it. I really wanted that rifle, I even at one time contemplated moving to the US. Alas I am here, with 50 guns, none of which to me means anything to me compared to my dream... well other then my LR 300, it just rocks.
Link Posted: 8/29/2001 12:44:37 AM EST
58 nations used the G3,I saw that at WWW.HKPRO.COM in te long gun part.Yes,some SEALS uses/used the G3.I read a book written by a Vietnam era SEAL,he spoke highly of the G3.
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