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Posted: 8/25/2001 5:28:51 AM EDT
Been reading in the local paper (wish I had a link) about how the Macadonian Govt. and the UN are now disarming all Ethnic Albanians. So what country is will be next to have there guns seized by the UN? BTW they didn't ask the US to do it, They asked the French. Maybe just matbe if the Albanians put up a little resistance the French will surrender and the Albanians can take over France?
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 5:51:33 AM EDT
WTF is it with some people ranting of the UN all the time. That is a NATO operation and the region is about to blow up because of tensions there, collecting weapons from various guerilla groups is a way disarm the situation. Now that the operation is underway, the Macedonian government is pulling of it´s forces.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 7:45:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 7:59:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 8:10:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 9:05:35 AM EDT
Waldo, THE major point which is different. We live in nations which are stabile and our weapons are owned legally. These countries where disarmament happens, they are in some state of crisis or war. Two very different situations kpel308. Dreadful mistakes have been made in peacekeeping history, BUT think how many more victims would have been thru out time without intervention by a 3rd party, NATO, UN or other forces. The main reason to disarm these groups is to prevent further conflicts in that particular region. The other force in this issue, the Macedonian army is unlikely to laucn an attack against the Kosovo albanians when they have some proof that the Albanian guerilla groups have been disarmed. They fought against the Serbs, that was what even i would have done, but the Macedonians are not their enemy at this time.
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 9:23:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2001 9:24:02 AM EDT by prk]
Originally Posted By Tuukka: ...We live in nations which are stabile and our weapons are owned legally. These countries where disarmament happens, they are in some state of crisis or war. Two very different situations...
View Quote
So, Tuukka, is it OK to come and get your weapons when the head of state or even some outside coalition declares that your county is "in a state of crisis" ???
...They fought against the Serbs, that was what even i would have done, but the Macedonians are not their enemy at this time.
View Quote
Who are the Albanians carrying our guerilla ops against? Disarmed-by-NATO Serbs?
Link Posted: 8/25/2001 9:30:17 AM EDT
Luckily the UN only agreed to take 3000 weapons, and that any more would be given in by choice, so that should leave the Albanians with quite a bit to fight with. There was another place in the Balkans (i dont remember the name)where the Albanians were disarmed , then the Serbs came in and massacered them.
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 9:57:46 AM EDT
I have very little sympathy for the Kosovo Albanians being disarmed. It was the Kosovo Albanians that started the trouble with the Serbians. Tha Kosovo Albanians wanted to create Kosovo as a separate Albanian homeland and break away from the Serbian Rule. The land is historically Serbian territory. When Tito took control after WWII many Serbians living in area moved north out of the Kosovo region and the Kosovo Albanians eventually became a majority. I believe Tito (the leader of Yugoslavia) gave many ethnic Albanian Yugoslavs land in Kosovo. So after Yugoslavia fell apart the Kosovo Albanians saw their greedy chance to steal control over the Kosovo region. They wanted more control over the region in the government and wanted I believe the Albanian language to be recognized as at least an equal to the Serb language. This would be like the Cubans in Southeast Florida one day saying we want autonomy since most of us are Cuban and we want Spanish as the official language. I grew up in Tampa lived around Cubans and have nothing against them. I had Cuban friends, love their food, love the women, but their are some hard line Cubans that refuse to learn English that have been here over 30 years. Instead of trying to integrate into the Serbian society the Kosovo Albanians choose to take advantage of a weakened Serbia. What the Serbians did was also inexcusable when it came to the ethnic cleansing acts, but I believe the Kosovo Albanians are guilty of the same. The Kosovo Albanians are causing trouble in Macedonia. They deserve whatever they get their short of genocide,torture, and harming civilians. Could you imagine if every ethnic and religious group in the United States wanted their own little territory here. Let the Ethnic Albanians go to Albania if they really want to just be around their own. No Slack!
Link Posted: 8/27/2001 1:48:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2001 8:52:28 AM EDT by DaMan]
Since Yugoslavia was "Balkanized", the situation there has been very difficult for many Americans to follow. The "Lame Stream" media has done it's best to confuse and sensationalize. Here are the facts! Macedonia is an independent nation that broke away from Yugoslavia on Sept. 8, 1991. It had NOTHING to do with any "ethnic cleansing" of Albanians in it's territory! In fact, thousands of Kosovar Albanians fled to Macedonia during the "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. So to thank Macedonia for it's hospitality, ethnic Albanians (supported tacitly by the Albanian Government) have done their best to make a territory grab on neighboring Macedonia during the confusion in the Balkans. Background on the weapons issue: Albania had severe economic problems in 1997 that resulted from a giant pyramid scheme. The economy collapsed and a civil war erupted. At this time, Albanian government arsenals were looted and some 600,000 small arms stolen. Organized crime is rampant in Albania. So many, if not most, of these weapons were carted off by the truckload by criminal gangs. In 1999, the UN came up with a buy-back program (called "arms for developement") when these weapons had already started showing up in the hands of terrorists in Kosovo and Macedonia. Bubba Klinton was a great supporter of this birdbrained project with YOUR tax money. Anyhow, large sums of "developement" money were given to the Albanian government to confiscate weapons from their citizens. But like ALL buy-back programs, it was a failure. Only the law abiding complied. Some 470,000 "small arms" (the biggest and best stuff) remained in the hands of "criminal elements". Now back to Macedonian situation........ The Macedonian police and military were fighting a losing battle to prevent Albanian terrorists from grabbing a big chunk of Macedonian territory (which would have become part of Greater Albania). NATO sent in troops to prevent another Kosovo type situation. With NATO in the fray, the Albanian terrorists decided they could accomplish more through political negotiations (monitored by the UN) than further terrorist actions. THAT'S WHY THEY AGREED TO "DISARM"! And I say "DISARM" with very big tongue in cheek. They will only turn in their "crapped out" weapons to show they are negotiating "in good faith". If political negotiations fall through, they can get more AK-47s from their good friends in Albania (organized crime and corrupt government officials). The Peoples Republic of China would also be glad to resupply them for a price. So you see this NATO "weapons confiscation" (although a bird-brained idea that will ultimately fail), it is NOT some diabolical plan to leave the "poor Albanians" at the mercy of "blood thirsty" Macedonians. I think the US should get out of the UN and NATO should not perform any more "peacekeeping missions" at the behest of the UN. But there is no giant UN controlled disarmament conspiracy here! DaMan
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:08:29 AM EDT
I had to bring this BTT, because I had to edit my previous post to give a more detailed description of the situation. I think some of you owe Tuukka an appology. As much as I despise any US or NATO involvement in any UN missions, this NATO mission is not part of a giant plot to disarm the poor Albanians for massacre. There was NO "ethnic cleansing" of Albanians by Macedonia! I wish some of you would get your facts straight. By spouting this nonsense, you undermine legitimate arguements you might have against US involvement in the UN! Some of your remarks (while well intended) remind me of John Balushi's famous line in "Animal House". "Did we give up after the GERMANS invaded Pearl Harbor?!! NOOOO!!!!!" [;)] DaMan
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:18:47 AM EDT
DaMan, thank you for making the message which i tried to convey more clearer. Your points are spot on im my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:48:51 AM EDT
Go see: [url]http://www.antiwar.com[/url] You get the straight dope on everything taking place over there and elsewhere. I really like today's picture--Macedonians tearing the UN flag to shreds. They hate the UN just as much as we do!
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:33:50 PM EDT
trickshot, that is a NATO flag they're tearing up! But, good site you posted. I was surprised to hear that Albanian rebels are actually turning in "good stuff". Probably they've got so much "good stuff" from Albanian arsenals, that it's all they can turn in! DaMan
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