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Posted: 8/15/2001 6:13:33 AM EST
this is not a military flame it just goes to show you how rumors get started in the military like the 50BMG thing and human targets (the biggest rumor ever) I was a 13M in the Army this is MLRS crewmember. we shoot rockets and missiles artillery that disperses sub-munitions (they are shapecharges) well the explosives in the shape charges are C-4 and they teach soldiers that there can be no sympathetic explosions if a grenade or highpower round hits a rocket that's in the tube they always say the sub-munitions aren't armed they need to rotate so many times to arm. well yeah but that's just the fuse charge there is no chemical reaction to arm the C-4 its already there the C-4 can have sympathetic explosions. what do you all think.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:28:45 AM EST
Its the fuse that needs to make rotations, not the C-4. C-4 takes heat and pressure to explode.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:29:25 AM EST
my understanding of this is that C4 as well as most other military high explosives, WILL NOT detonate under the impact of a rifle round. this is tested and tested before the HE is adopted into service...seems to me however that a grenade (filled w/HE) would set off the C4 just as good as its own detonator would... just my opinion
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:34:19 AM EST
Can't answer your question, but I did get to watch a bootleg video of the opening night of the ground war in Desert Storm. A buddy of mine was over there and video taped several MLRS emptying boxes of missles into Iraqi ground positions. Awesome weapon..... Even more unbelieveable was the footage he filmed of the famous highway (whatever the number is) on his way into Kuwait. I'll never forget seeing that.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:36:04 AM EST
You are correct SkaerE.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:43:58 AM EST
Ok, I just went out back and tried it on one of my old MRLS's. I first shot at it with an M60 and it left nothing but holes, no detonation. I then tried tossing a grenade at it and it caused an impressive secondary explosion. Well, its been fun but I gotta get back to dropping anthrax on those pesky groundhogs. Michael
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 6:58:32 AM EST
I'm not very familiar with MLRS systems, but I did play with bombs, bullets and missiles for 21 years. I agree with what they taught you, but my rule in life is "Never say never." Munition items are tested extensively to determine just what they will withstand. AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, for example, can be loaded on stands mere inches apart and will not mass detonate provided they are alternated "head-to-tail." I've witnessed a few mass detonations and seen the results of many more. You don't want to be close when it happens. C-4 is very forgiving, but I hate the stickiness. Eddie P.S Speaking of shape charges, we use to see who could cut the deepest groove in battleship armour with the least amount of C-4. Ahh, the good ol' days.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 7:09:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 7:15:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2001 7:19:59 AM EST by EOD_Guy]
Military main charge explosives are formulated to be bullet impact safe. However any munition can be set off through sympathetic detonation of a charge right next to the explosive charge. That's how they are disposed of. I have never seen a submunition that used C-4 as a main charge explosive. All the ones I've seen used a cast explosive which is much easier to load during the manufacturing process. I will admit though, that it's been a while since I've worked with them. If a missile on a launcher were hit with a high explosive projectile, at the least, the rocket motor would detonate and submunitions would be spread over the vicinity. Some of the submunitions would arm through the force of the explosion and detonate on impact. Others could be laying there either unarmed, partially armed, or fully armed. In a scenario like that, all would have to be treated as fully armed duds. Every situation is different and funny thing happen.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 7:21:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy: Military main charge explosives are formulated to be bullet impact safe. However any munition can be set off through sympathetic detonation of a charge right next to the explosive charge. That's how they are disposed of. I have never seen a submunition that used C-4 as a main charge explosive. All the ones I've seen used a cast explosive which is much easier to load during the manufacturing process. I will admit though, that it's been a while since I've worked with them.
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I was only taught that it was C-4 it might not be. also C-4 is set off by heat and pressure does not a small arms round produce both what about a tracer or incin. rounds or are the rounds not fast enough
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 8:01:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2001 5:37:13 PM EST by STLRN]
The M77 submunition in the M26 rocket doesn't need rotation to arm. The arming action occurs when the ribbon stabilizer hits the slip stream and pull the arming pin to the rear, at that time the spring loaded safety moves to the arm position. Submunition impact the safety pin moves/slams forward under inertia, hitting a firing mechanism witin the fuze. If I remember right the filler explosive itself is Comp B, a RDX based explosive explosive containing 60 percent RDX, 39 percent TNT, and 1 percent wax, instead of C4 which is 91 percent RDX and 9 percent nonexplosive plasticizers.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 8:22:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: C-4 needs, as mentioned, pressure and heat to detonate.
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Exactly. Heat and compression are the two most necessary components for an explosion. Light c-4 on fire and it burns. Big deal. now light it on fire and smash it with a sledgehammer. No, don't. That would be bad for you. That's what makes it go boom. It seems to me that the explosion of a rocket or RPG could possibly compress the matter enough to make the boom. Perhaps laying a sheet of scrap iron over c-4 and then shooting it with a .50 could make it detonate. Just an idea.
Link Posted: 8/15/2001 8:24:03 AM EST
Bullet hits may produce heat, in varying amounts, (probably not much tho) but not pressure. C-4 is like heavy clay and a bullet will punch a hole through. C-4 can be used in place of sterno to cook. It is very stable. If what you are getting at is that you are concenred about safe handling, that is good paranoia is bad tho'. Happy Shooting
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