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Posted: 8/8/2001 5:10:22 AM EDT
What would be the optimum gun to stash aboard a blue-water sailboat? A stainless "mariner" shotgun (Mossy or 870) is all I can think of. Whould a RAS mounted Aimpoint be a good optic?(keeping in mind the sway of the sea) Rifles?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:22:33 AM EDT
This is a very good, but tough to answer question... I say tough to answer, because with the great variances of International Laws, coupled with the high risk of piracy. I new a guy with a 70' yacht that sailed the world. His preference was a SS Mini-14, but this was several years ago. What ports do you most often frequent and do you know the laws there..? I only toss the "legal" issues out, because it would really suck to get picked up in a foreign port for weapons violations!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:48:52 AM EDT
Funny you should ask that - my parents have a 38' IP, and I helped them out with the same question a few years back. There are several issues to consider. The first one is the tangle of legal issues you have to deal with. If your destination is a US-jurisdiction location (USVI, for instance) you're pretty much in good shape. If not, you have some problems. Most Caribbean destinations will allow shotguns as long as they stay on the vessel. Handguns and assault rifles are generally a no-no. My personal feeling is that my safety on the high seas is the primary concern. When you're sailing, you don't have the ability to outrun pirates, so IMHO you need to be able to deter/disable/destroy them before it comes to an 'away boarders' situation. What they finally settled on was a DS FAL and a pair of Glock 21s. IMO, the 5.56 doesn't have the penetration ability to get into a vessel and really mess things up. There are some basic precautions you can take to ensure a higher level of safety. Most modern marine radar sets have the capability of setting a proximity warning, sounding an audible alarm if a target closes closer than a preset range. Typically, when we're in blue-water locations, we set the 'anchor watch' as this setting is called, for about a 2 mile radius. This would give you ample time to wake up, arm yourself and figure out WTF is up. To summarize, I believe a heavy assault rifle, and handguns with frangible ammunition (to avoid any hull-breach type incidents) is probably the best solution. You need to figure out a reasonably good way to hide them when you go into a port that might inspect, but as a sailboat you really aren't going to be subjected to a drug-enforcement level search most of the time...most drug runners choose a faster method of transportation. YMMV. QS
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:24:29 AM EDT
I like the assault rifle idea if you can hide it, But the Shotgun is ok too. Personally I prefer the Rem 870, I wouldn't get a satinless as the glare might give away your location on the boat and some guy can pick you off before you have a chance to shoot. If the shotgun is the Choice, get two or three, for other peopel in your boat. I am not a boater so take my opinion for what it is worth. Why not makes some Missiles out of estes rockets? I have never made them but the should work out to 500+ feet. -Chuck
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:34:59 AM EDT
I really prefer to look at stainless only, for obvious reasons. As far as the "law" goes, many foreign, Carribean ports don't allow guns, and will actually search vessels. Stow it in the bilge. (or a custom hidey-hole) Rifled slugs followed by buck-shot, seems to me a good load. All stainless .308 AW? Does it exist?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:43:00 AM EDT
How bout that pump action shotgun and "stand off weapon" in .338 Wincheser or Lapua? One of those straight pull Blasers might be pretty cool, especially since it is a take down. I have wanted a Blaser since '84, and I ain't getting any closer to one due to cost. If restricted by budget and fear of confiscation, I'd go with the Ishapore Enfield and the Mossberg.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:47:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 6:46:29 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
One weapon, only. One way to hide, when moored, is to stick it in a weighted WP bag, tie it to the anchorline(below the waterline) and drop it over board.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:34:33 AM EDT
I think there might be a lot of wisdom in two weapons. You will have the stand off distance of .308/.338 or if you want to go all out .50 Barrett but have a Remy 870 or Mossy 500 for up close and dirty. You got to remember, these pirate types will come in just more than twos and threes. They usually come in force and you got to be able to hit them at longer distance in order to even your chances. If it was me out there, I would have a high quality heavy barrell FAL with a good scope with bipod loaded with maybe Nosler ballistic tips or military surplus AP!!!! [:D] If you can't afford to have it coated like Armaloy or something similar then have a heavy type grease to protect it from the salt air. Then the shotguns for the boarding parties, if they got that close. Dragons Breath is pretty convincing at night for those brave enough to keep coming after being nailed with .308 AP.[sniper]
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 8:28:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 9:35:53 AM EDT
Get a Phalanx system: [img]www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/weapons/phal-blk1b.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:15:01 AM EDT
[img]http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/images/msppurx50298scan2.gif[/img] This is what my father keeps in his boat. It's basically a stainless 590 with heavy barrel and blaze orange plastic parts. When he first bought it, we noticed that the owners manual stated that no live rounds could be shot through it. Dad called Mossberg and eventually talked with a guy who said that the barrel is the same spec as a military barrel but they were afraid some idiot would put a slug behind the line thrower and blow his arm off. It is completely capable of firing any 12 guage round. The theory is that if you need to defend youself against someone else in a boat, slugs make much larger holes than .223. Mossberg # 50298 Marine Line Launcher Includes carrying case, special barrel with line dispensing canister, magazine tube adapter, floating and distance heads, shafts, 3 coils of line, 10 rounds of special launching loads.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:32:54 AM EDT
There was an article in "Sail" magazine about just this thing. It also had a few tactics in it too. Look back 6 to 18 months ago and you will find it. One point from the article is that you need to find what part of the boat offers the best protection from bullets. That way you know where is best to lie down opposite to the side the pirates are shooting from. I r eally liked the article. It was very infomative. ches
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:37:36 AM EDT
...boat is an all wood, schooner. Not much cover, I guess [:D].
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 10:40:36 AM EDT
..heh, heh, we're talking about pirates. Awesome. Who says there's no more adventures to be had?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:12:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 11:12:25 AM EDT by Kharn]
Please delete me. Double post.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:16:07 AM EDT
You said a blue-water sailboat, so I assume you can make it down to Panama. Just look around the canal docks for the giant store with the "Norinco: direct to you at slave-labor prices and no ATF to spoil the fun" sign, it should be right next door to Walmart. Go in there and see about a nice Ma Deuce or something. Almost any pirate would shit his drawers when you fire off a 5 round burst from your forward mounted Ma Deuce. The ones that dont, well, thats what the Javelin and RPG launchers in the forward head are for. I assume you saw what the Javelin could do to a tank, you think a pirate could survive that? Kharn
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2001 11:12:21 AM EDT by w00dy]
Pirates of the Caribbean? I think someone has been to Disneyland too many times! [:D]
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:18:46 AM EDT
w00dy: Actually, pirates are a big problem in the waters around 3rd world countries. SE Asia especially, but I bet some Caribbean drug runners would love to get their hands on a US-owned boat that probably wouldnt be stopped by the USCG when returning to port. Kharn
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:24:51 AM EDT
Hehehe I know, I'm just messin' with ya! [:P]
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 11:29:42 AM EDT
M2HB Baby! On a tripod mount for easy storage.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:27:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib: [img]http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/images/msppurx50298scan2.gif[/img] This is what my father keeps in his boat. It's basically a stainless 590 with heavy barrel and blaze orange plastic parts. When he first bought it, we noticed that the owners manual stated that no live rounds could be shot through it. Dad called Mossberg and eventually talked with a guy who said that the barrel is the same spec as a military barrel but they were afraid some idiot would put a slug behind the line thrower and blow his arm off. It is completely capable of firing any 12 guage round. The theory is that if you need to defend youself against someone else in a boat, slugs make much larger holes than .223. Mossberg # 50298 Marine Line Launcher Includes carrying case, special barrel with line dispensing canister, magazine tube adapter, floating and distance heads, shafts, 3 coils of line, 10 rounds of special launching loads.
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Ok, what do you use this for? A drowning person? To tow in a crippled vessel? That line looks a little wimpy to me. just curious. What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:41:45 PM EDT
The shot gun is your best bet I would put some light shot in it so you don't blow a hole in the boat(that would suck) You realy don't want a rifle cuz it will put hole in stuff, A boat would just like swat going in to a house use the same stuff they would. I don't think you will have a prob. the law as long as you don't take the gun off of the boat. Ps: "The theory is that if you need to defend youself against someone else in a boat, slugs make much larger holes than .223" At slug will make one hell of a hole but a .223 will not really make a hole at all,it will take out chuncks. Rem. .223 on flesh...............crap all ove the place. [xx(]
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 1:47:27 PM EDT
Mach, I expect the finer line is intended to be fired over the intended target. After a successful launch, the person on the launch end ties a heavier line to the fine line. Then the person on the "receiving end" hauls in the heavier line. At least that's what you do in tree climbing. Didn't realize that you were restricted to one weapon. I guess in that case I'd say Enfield or FN FAL with tracers. Maybe you can light up some fuel tanks or something. That's pretty fab that SAIL magazine had an article on repelling boarders!
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 2:04:12 PM EDT
I got it, now. That makes sense. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:20:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:29:53 PM EDT
We have a 32' sailboat that is used to sail in the Caribbean at times and we keep a SS Ruger Ranch Rifle with factory folding stock on board along with few 30 round mags. The folding stock makes for a compact package. This rifle has been kept on the sailboat for about 7 years now and it still has no sign of rust. We clean and spray Eezzox (sp?) on the rifle and mags every few months.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 3:48:40 PM EDT
Major-Murphy, stainless isn't NECESSARILY the way to go. The nickel content is the key ingredient as to how long your weapon will last without rusting - and every manufacturer's "stainless steel" is different. I'm thinking that one of Armalite"s completely camoflaged AR-10 A4 carbines might be the ticket.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 5:25:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ustulina: Mach, I expect the finer line is intended to be fired over the intended target. After a successful launch, the person on the launch end ties a heavier line to the fine line. Then the person on the "receiving end" hauls in the heavier line.
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Exactly. I forget what the exact rating is for the thin orange line that comes with it, but I'm pretty sure it was enough to slowly pull two boats together at a distance. I also think that it's something like $30 a spool to replace.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 6:51:57 PM EDT
You actually need 3 guns. Semi auto in the largest caliber possible. Barret .50 or reliable .308 fal, g3 etc A pump shotgun. Mossberg 590 Marine. 9 shots, tapped receiver for red dot or optics. I sold mine, but the factory rear ghost ring sight bolts right up then add barrel band front sight. Speedfeed stock, side saddle. The most important feature of a 12G shotgun is the ability to shoot flares. This is the only gun I would have visible at any time. If you are asked by "authorities" it's a flare gun. Pistol, someone else mentioned a glock 21, I second that.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:15:44 PM EDT
A friend of mine use to own Sovereign Yahts and liked the Winchester Defender. He would have them hardchromed at Checkmate. I had them do a Ak and mags for my sailboat. Someone mentioned the dragons breath round and I concur except they are illegal in Florida, go figure. I would not worry about holes in the boat until after the BGs are taken care of. There are plenty of temporary patch products available. As I see it your needs are DEFENSIVE and if you keep your weapons clean and dry anything you feel comfortable with should be the guiding principle.
Link Posted: 8/8/2001 7:50:21 PM EDT
I would tend to think ammo availibility and functionality should be a primary concern when sailing world wide. Id have to recomend a folding stock ak or uzi. You can go to just about any country and find ammo or replacement parts (for the ak especialy).Plus Rust/filth or harsh climate is not going to hamper relyability with in reason. full auto might be an option as well (preferabely legaly)
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