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2/23/2017 5:55:53 PM
Posted: 8/6/2001 4:44:53 AM EST
Friend of mine is out of town, doing a 2 week training gig for the National Guard. He's got a wife and 2 kids, so my wife and I stand by to help her when needed. We walk in the house after dinner Thursday night and the phone rings. Guys wife on the phone, "Hi, it's me...I'm at the hospital waiting for the plastic surgeon...." "WHAT!?!?!?!?!?" Turn out her 2-1/2 year old was bitten, on the face, by one of their dogs. Took about 15 stitches, inside and out, to close. Child took it better than Mom. I talked to Dad from the hospital (don't ever let anyone tell you that a cell phone is a luxury), and discussed options for the dogs. Dogs are in a vet's kennel right now, and will stay there until he gets home. Options as I see them: 1. Put the dog down. Period. If he bit someone once, he'll do it again. 2. Dog, a black lab, is usually very tolerant of the children's play. Mom feels that child may have sat or jumped on dog's sore hips, causing this reaction. Was a one bite event, no "attacking". Loves dogs and wants to keep him if possible. 3. Place dogs (they have two and feel that the "other" dog will be heartbroken if split up) with someone who has a farm and no kids. I'm not a dog person, so I have no problem with taking him to a vet for a humane euthanizing. If you let the dog stay and he does it again, to your kids or someone else's kids, you will never get another good night sleep. I think that anything other than option #1 is only delaying the inevitable. Option #2 is based on fantasy. Option #3 might work, but if he bites again, I'd still feel terrible. It's not my family and not my dog, and really none of my business, but I have been asked for advice. Suggestions?
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 4:57:31 AM EST
Kill it. It wouldn't have thought twice about killing the little boy, as evidenced by its behavior now. Personally, had it happened to my son and I had been around, the dog wouldn't have made it to the vet. His head (or what was left of it) would be floating around in a box somewhere waiting to be checked out for rabies. You never know, and I value my sons life infinitely more than any animal. Michael
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:35:56 AM EST
I have accident touch many a family pet on their injuried areas before. They always nipped at me but never did they bite me where it require any amount of stitches. Believe me, there is a big differnce between a warning nip and a bite. [b] This dog will bite again--period!![/b] Fact is a lot of dogs start to bite as they age. In short, the only option is to kill this dog. Personnally I would do it myself. Why pay out $$$ on a vet when the end result is the same. If you do it yourself, don't let them know how it was done, just say that it was taken care of. This applies here:[b] Do it for the children!!![/b] sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:36:58 AM EST
Appears the dog did think about it & didn't kill the kid. Hope the child is fine. Plastic surgery & facial stitches tend to be very small in order to leave as little scar as possible. This may not be as serious as it first sounds as far as the injury goes but considering the options for the dog has to be thought about. Finding a farm may be best if the dog normally is good tempered. This may be harder to do. Another option if have room is to build a kennel for the dogs with a run. Let them out for walks & play with adults. Later with children when they understand they can't "ride" the dogs.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 5:58:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:08:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Grin&Barrett: Appears the dog did think about it & didn't kill the kid.
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So you think that if the dog had bit a few inches lower and hit the jugular it would be moping around worrying about the kid it just killed? Dogs know that the head and neck are vital areas, just witness them in the wild. Just because it didn't finish the job doesn't mean that wasn't its intentions in the first place. Michael
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:08:33 AM EST
Put the dog down. My brother used #2 reasoning when his dog bit someone the first time. Then it bit HIM. My brother thought about #3 after that. I explained to him he was simply putting off his problems on someone else. You have no control of who would be around the thing after you give it away and if the dog is actually isolated on a farm with no contact with children it will just make any possible contact with a kid that much more foreign to him. The only responsible thing to do is to put the dog down. It broke my brothers heart when he had to but he knew it was the best thing to do. As for the other dog being heart broken, yes it will deifinately miss it's playmate. But this will pass soon enough, the dog will get over the separation.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:10:37 AM EST
I really hate to say this, as being one that also loves dogs, but I would think it would be in the best interest to have the dog put to sleep. I have grown up around animals, and realize that this may be quite hard on the family, but I believe that it would be the best. Dogs that have bitten tend to do it more often. The next bite may be someone not of the family, and there are tons of lawyers out there that would love to sue the family. I would say that I would ensure that the son gets a good talking to about jumping on the dog to ride him. It is unfortunate that this may have caused it, but I would believe that the son would really benefit on a talk about the proper way to treat a dog.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:12:29 AM EST
If my black lab bit my 4 year old brother, She would die, period..., However if you still have it alive go give it to a farm. At let the farmer do with it as he pleases. -Chuck
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:22:10 AM EST
I'm not so reactionary as most of the posters, so I would take a different course of action. What is done to the dog will not only affect the dog, but the kids as well. Locate a good canine trainer or canine behavoirist and have them examine the dog first. It may be something as simple as a dominance issue where the dog needs to be shown his place in the pack and that he's not the Alpha or even close for that matter. If the dog had a history of being mean tempered, and biting, then maybe euthanasia would be the proper course, but as this was the first case, and it may have been prompted by pain or an injury, step back and get a professional involved and try and find out why the dog bit and what might be done to correct the behavior.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:14:18 AM EST
From the Old School. When my Brother was very young, about two, my father had a LARGE German Shepard. Well my brother was a pain in the ass even then and would pull on tails ears and generally screw with this dog that was quite accustomed to not having this damn kid around for several years. Well the dog turned around and did the snap and growl. The dog DID NOT do any signifigant damage or even cause a hospital trip. But my Father beat that dogs ass so bad that when my Brother crawled into the room the dog would get up and leave. Never had another problem. Not exactly the same situation. But for those with new children and old dogs, the dogs need to be taught the order of dominance right from the start.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 7:56:10 AM EST
Our Black lab bit my daughter after she teased it so much he could not take it any more. It was August "THE DOG DAYS OF SUMMER." Heat is bad on a dog and they will do things they normally wouldn't do. When it is hot outside keep little children away from any dog, dogs can't take pestering when they are hot. If the dog were mine I would give it to a farmer. I kept my dog another 2-3 years and he never bit again. Perfect animals are just as hard to find as perfect people, you should weigh the risks before you get any pet.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:09:05 AM EST
The dog could have accidentally bit while only snapping at his/her tormentor. The dog has to go but could possibly be a great pet for someone else. Take it to the Humane Society or Dog Pound with the info that it has bitten and let nature take it's course.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:21:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:23:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:34:40 AM EST
When my little sisiter was 20mos old she was mauled on the face by my grandfathers beagle. Don't laugh this was one vicious dog. He almost completely removed her entire left cheek. She was scarred for life. My father wanted to kill the dog. My grandfather, his father refused to allow it. Over the next couple of years it attacked other cousins and finally got a hold of my grandfathers foot and wouldn't let go. He had to have my grandmother get his shotgun so he could kill it. Your buddy should end this dogs life. He is no longer a friend to man, he has forgotten his place in the "pack" and will never go back. Kill him before he causes more injury.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 8:56:11 AM EST
Wait ten days. Rabies compendium says you should wait 10 days after a bite to make sure that the pet is healthy before you put it down. The dog should probably be put down, even though most of the dog bite cases I've handled, it was the kids fault. I love dogs and I love my son. I won't let my kid go near any dog by himself. At least not until he's old enough to show some sense and/or be able to defend himself. It's not fair to the dog, and it's not fair to the kid to let them go unsupervised.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:05:05 AM EST
My wife and I own a Alaskan Malamute/Wolf hybrid named Nashoba( which is Chickasaw for wolf ) and he is about 10 years old now. We had a incident with him about 5 years ago when he dug out of the back yard. The next door neighbors had invited several children to their house that day and one of the boys entered our yard and came up on our porch at which time Nashoba bit him on the wrist. My wife and I were at work . The police were called and then they called the Dog Catcher. Nashoba was shot w/ a tranquilizer and pursued until he fell. Once hearing of the incident I was completely shocked. But being the responsible people we are my wife and I had already decided to put the dog down. The wife went to the house of the child that was bitten( took 7 stitches to close wound ). She told the parents that we would pay ANY hospital bills and that we would immediately put the dog to sleep. The father said there was no need for that. But my wife insisted that it was the best thing to do ( even though she truly did not want to ). At that moment the young boy ( about 10 years old ) came out of the back of the house crying. He said, "Please don't kill your dog. It was my fault. He told me not to get closer ( dog must have growled ) but I wanted to pet him." You have to keep in mind that the dog DID NOT chase or attempt to bite the child again. Even the child verified that. From my experiences with Nashoba and training dogs I would like to respond to several of the posts here. <<<1. Put the dog down. Period. If he bit someone once, he'll do it again.>>> ANY dog IF put in a certain situation or circumstance WILL bite, period. <<>> Did it bite the boy or did it "attack" the boy. There is a BIG difference. <<>> Most dog bites to children happen when the child is aggravating the dog. The dog tries to discipline the child as it would a puppy ( with a bite ). But with a childs face being so much more tender than dog hide the damage is done. We also recently had a family member where their small daughter was bitten in the face by the neighbors dog. All the kids were in the back yard as well as the dog. There was no "parental" supervision. People have to realize that kids should not be allowed to use dogs like toys. Parents that allow this only invite disaster. I have no problem with putting a dog to sleep if it bites. My point is to analyze the situation and more often that not you will find out the dog was put in a situation where it would bite. I always recommend a certain book to everyone that is looking to get a dog. When I first saw it I laughed! What a kook ! The book is written by C.W. Meisterfeld and it is called "Jelly Bean vs Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0960129251/qid=997120068/sr=2-2/102-4790505-4517753 This is NOT a dog training book BUT it does show the fallacy of many of the "popular" dog training tactics. You will definately lean how NOT to train your dog. I promise anyone who reads this book will come away with a huge understanding of why dogs act the way they do and how WE are for the most part are laying the groundwork for this type of behavior. USMC_LB
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:21:43 AM EST
I second USMC_LB's excellent advice. FatMan said it. The mom wasn't even in the room as is obvious from the quote "Mom feels that the child....". Sorry, FatMan, but you're friends wife is at fault here. Not the dog. Not enough evidence here to down the dog, IMO. If you're really interested in giving good advice, take a deep breath and tell them both that they need to supervise both their children and pets in a MUCH more responsible manner and that, NO, the dog shouldn't be put down. Too bad their kid had to bear the brunt of their poor decision making skills. CB
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:28:24 AM EST
That's screwed up. If the dog is hurt or in pain, and a child (or anyone) jumps on the painful part, he's going to react by biting. There's absolutely no reason to kill the dog, unless he has shown a pattern of unprovoked attacks. If a dog attacks with no provocation, I say blow its f'ing brains out..but if you torment it and/or cause it pain, and it bites you, I think you get what you deserve. Even a kid. Anyone here have a bad back? Would you want some asshole kid jumping on it without warning? I daresay you'd smack their ass too. As USMC_LB said, there are some situations that will cause ANY dog to bite. The dog isn't equal to a person. But to just say 'kill the sumbitch' when there was an obvious, understandable reason he did what he did is just plain wrong. QS
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:43:52 AM EST
Thanks for all the input. Mom was making supper and did not actually witness what caused the bite. She knows that the dog has sore hips, and theorized that the child may have sat on the dog, but cannot be sure. The injury could have been a lot worse. The bulk of the damage was midway between the point of the chin and the top of the throat. A little more to the side, and a major blood vessel would have been cut. Farther back and the throat would have been torn. Farther forward and there would have been more facial damage. As it is, there should be a very fine scar, about 3" long, in the folds of her neck. Wounds to the upper lip were minor and will hopefully heal with minimal scarring. I'm not looking forward to "counseling" Dad when he gets home.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 9:50:43 AM EST
Hey I love dogs too but, if you do decide to have it put down DON'T take it to a vet to be put to "sleep". I'm not a Vet but I had one explain how this process works and if you have any feelings for the animal you put it down in a quick humane manner IE. BANG! When you have them put to sleep they give them a drug that basic paralyzes them so that they cannot breath and they lay there and suffocate to death slowly. It's not like a lethal injection for humans where they put you to sleep first on dogs they don't waste the extra cost of the sleep drug they just use the one that relaxes there diaphragm muscles so they can't breath anymore. Things may have changed in the last few years with all the animal rights groups out there, so if you do take it to a Vet ask them EXACTLY how little scruffy will be put down step by step.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 10:07:41 AM EST
Fifteen stitches...what a mess. The baby will most likely need a couple of reconstructive surgeries later on. My daughter had two after an accident involving her upper lip, with the last one coming at age fourteen. Let me start out by saying that I love dogs. Losing our fifteen year old golden retriever a couple of years ago was like losing a family member. I still hurt. Having said all that...I say put the dog down and soon. Regardless of the actions of the child, the dog must go. No dog is worth the life of a child, not ever. If the pooch bit her once, he will do it again...if not to her, then another [small] child, and I don't put much stock in obediance schools or training programs. As a parent, I would not take the chance that the training took and the dog was safe. If you don't put it down, I recommend a real big homeowner's insurance umbrella policy...'cause it could get really expensive if a neighbor kid gets chomped, especially now that the pooch has a rap sheet. Besides, who wants to feed the land shark trial lawyers. I am sure there were probably extenuating circumstances such as the child pulling the dog's ears, or sitting on the dog's sore hindquarters...but that doesn't matter from my perspective. In fact, it may make the need to put the animal down more logical, since it will probably happen again. I know this...had my beloved pooch EVER chomped one of my kids like that, he'd been room temp real fast. It would have been painfully hard, but it would have been done. Kids come first.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 10:28:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2001 10:24:52 AM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 10:39:38 AM EST
kill the dog [}:D]
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 1:21:45 PM EST
I'm not suggesting anything, but if a dog of mine bit an innocent person his life expectancy would narrow down to the time it took me to pull my shirt out of the way of a clean draw. Just my .02
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 1:41:32 PM EST
Kids and dogs don't belong together. .22HP to the back of the head. Walk the dog to the hole you will bury him in, it's easier thatn dragging it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 2:19:17 PM EST
well, i was bitten by my lifelong friend missy, a blue healer, once. im kinda tearing up just thinking about it. i got her when i was 7 and we grew up together. she would have fought to the death for me had it ever been necessary, but was as sweet a dog as there ever was. and ten years later, one day i went to pick her up and she chomped down on my hand. the catch is, i had just accidently run over her and crushed her pelvis. she was asleep under my truck and couldnt hear well enough or move fast enough to get out of the way. i immediately got out of the truck and ran to pick her up and take her to the vet. she was in such pain that she didnt know what she was doing. when i saw the x-ray i decided it was best to put her to sleep. had she not been so badly injured, i would never thought once about putting her to sleep. i have no problem with putting a bad dog to sleep, but if pain could make a very good natured missy bite me, then i know it could cause a good natured dog to bite a child it didnt know. this is a very unfortunate incident and hopefully will not happen again, but check into the dogs past and see what kind a reputation it has. labs are generally good natured dogs, i have one now and i know you couldnt make him bite outside of putting him in pain. hope your little girl gets well soon.
Link Posted: 8/6/2001 6:04:35 PM EST
I have owned several Labs, had one for 12 years and another for 10. I think they are one of the best breeds, we are currently looking for another, it's between a Lab or an Anatolian Shepherd. I have only ever heard of a Lab biting someone once or twice, but in this case I see that you have only 2 options: #1 - .45 acp Hydra-Shock #2 - 9mm Gold Dot You don't need a dog pyschiatrist or any other BS, a dog can be replaced, but a child can NOT. If you don't you may very well live to regret it, another child could be mauled, and some scumbag lawyer seeing to it that everything you own is taken from you and you have to live in the street. "Do it for the children" is VERY appropriate.
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