I agree with Carbine compleately, and I was with HKer up until used the word wetbacks.

Just for the record, I developed most of my opinions about illegal immigration from watching friends and aquaintances ODing on bad drugs that border jumpers had smuggled in from Canada, and has nothing to do with the race of the people coming accross the border.

Kyle

goose870ex & others,

"Can't we all just get along?"  Seriously, I share most of your concerns but have you really thought this through?

How many of you would leave your family because of economic need and go to a foreign country for work knowing the "natives" would be (very)hostile towards you?  Top this off with the fact that you don't speak the "native's" language, you really don't have any rights and your pay, while more than you can make at home, subsidizes only a meager existence.  You don't have an education, a bank account or a phone.  Your car, if you have one, probably has a bad title and you have no insurance for anything.  You are subjected to a preponderance of crime even if you are an honest guy because of the circumstances of your illegal residence.

Being human, you want a better life for yourself and your family.  What is wrong with that?

Yea, I want these folks to speak english, pay taxes and generally be responsible.  It is not likely to happen anytime soon.  Given Mexico's socioeconomic state and as long as there is a market for cheap labor, these folks will try to fill the need.  

LBNL: Shoot people crossing the border????, get real...      

As with most legal problems in this country ,it is the lack of enforcement that is at the root of the problem . The borders must be tightened and secured, it is a war. Any uninvited foriegn entity that crosses a border of a soverign nation is an act of war.And should be dealt with accordingly

Before y'all get sympathetic for Mexico, they have a VERY strict immigration policy, yet want open EMMIGRATION with the U.S. It is another example of "do as I say, not as I do".

I don't even know where to start.  Open the borders and let them all in????  Yeah, if you want San Diego and every other border town to look like its Mexican counterpart.  By the way, between 5 and 10 percent of the people crossing have criminal records in the U.S.  THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BE KEPT OUT!  There is no doubt that we need an influx of Mexican workers to perform certain tasks that aren't being filled by our own citizens.  This is just another failure on the part of our governing politicians to not devise a system to allow this to happen.  It's easier for them to hire more Border Patrol to look like they're trying to curb illegal immigration, and then tying the BP's hands on enforcement, so that illegals still get through.

You guys advocating easing immigration restrictions show a woeful lack of understanding on this issue.  35 years ago blacks were citizens.  I don't see how their plight has anything to do with the current situation. (It's called a false analogy.) We're not talking about discriminating against legal mexican immigrants.  I understand your anger at the "shoot 'em all" attitude that some here are displaying, but having a guilt complex and exacerbating the problem by letting them all come in isn't going to help.

The solution is to let the Border Patrol do their job....EVERYWHERE!  And in concurrence, to have the political fortitude to come up with a legal immigration scheme that satisfies our labor needs so we don't have businesses who feel the need to hire illegals.  Did you know that if INS wants to audit a business for illegals they have to give the business 3 days notice?  Oh yeah, that's REALLY going to keep them from hiring those illegals.  If we would just enforce the existing laws (sound familiar to another issue around here) and make provisions for the necessary legal immigration, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

MG

Compassion is fine Ed, But the abundance that once was an open land of opportunity,and a Constitutional Rebpulic ,has evolved into a ever crowded,tax supported ,socialist democracy.
It is still and above all not a matter of compassion but a matter of reason .
Illegal immigrants.
1.)Do not pay taxes.
2.)Increase the social burden on American Citizens
3.)Increase the expenditure for law enforcement
 At all level of government.

It is no longer a compassionate issue, not for those of us hard working stiffs just trying to make a living over 62% of our paychecks go to the feds, local ,State and FICA now I can't afford any more.

Stop the Illegal Invasion of our borders.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

Sorry about the tax thing Ed, have compassion on me, I do at times get a bit feisty.

Cible, Kahn is referring to 'The Wrath of Kahn' where Kahn has the superior intellect, which you obviously believe you have.  You are an idiot and I have read enough of your garbage.  Whether your location is a joke or not (and you must be ashamed of where you are from or have something to hide), it is misleading, as are you and your sense of self worth.  So just flame away, as I will ignore you from this point on.

Okay, I came in late on this conversation so much of this has probably been said. But now it's my turn. [:)]

The illegals are coming over in search of a better way of life. Hell, that's why OUR ancestors came here. It was just too far to swim, so they took a boat and got proper papers when they arrived.

If the economy was shit here in the U.S. and world class luxury in Mexico, they would be flooded with English speaking illegals.

If we are serious about stemming the tide we need to aggressively prosecute the employers of undocumented workers. If there is no one to hire them then they won't come. That won't stop them all, of course, but it would go a long way.

(I forgot to add:) If we did away with the "any child borne on U.S. soil is a U.S. citizen" then we would slow the import of pregnent illegals we can't deport after the kid is borne. After all the mother would have to stay to take care of our newest citizen. This, however would require a constitutional amendment.

We would also need to actively deport all illegals rounded up. Some of you would be suprised how lax INS is about this.

The Mexican language is to Spanish what American English is to British English. The New World languages use a lot of native (read-Indian) terms and words that do not exist in the European forms.

Just my thoughts.

I think the point that a lot of the people here are missing is the distinction between legal and illegal immgrants.  Like I mentioned before, I think that anyone trying to make it into this country illegally should be shot and killed on the spot regardless of sex, or age.  But that doesn't mean that I hate or am predjudice toward all immigrants.  

The people who really want to come to this country for a better life, and who are willing to work for it will go through the legal channels of obtaining citizenship.  If you are not willing to do this then it is obvious to me that you have nothing to offer this country, and only want to come here to be a social parasite and screw the US government for everything you can.

There is also a huge distinction between private charity and government programs.  I don't have anything against helping someone who is down on their luck; or helping someone who just came to this country get on their feet.  However, I don't think that the public sector is the proper place for this.  Forced charity is not charity; it is robbery plain and simple.  If a private citizen wants to help someone out with their own funds that fine; but don't force me to give my hard earned money to somebody who doesn't deserve to be in this country anyway.

Actually, since many illegals work under a fake SSN, they pay in but will never get it back.  Illegals also pay sales tax and fuel tax and phone tax and this tax and that tax.  If you claim that you are paying 62%, and the top bracket is IIRC 40%, then 22% or more of your taxes come from other than income tax.  Illegals pay those taxes, too.

It's also true that Mexico has stricter immigration laws than we do here in the US, but they get more immigrants than we do and they can ill afford it.

And, Larry G, quit pouting.[>(]  Sorry I ignored your precious little Kahn reference.  It's been a long time since I could stomach Star Trek.  You misspelled it anyways.  It's K-H-A-N.  You are not doing well at these I.Q. tests at all, are you?

But, since I'm really a nice person, I tell you what: if it makes you happy, I'll declare today "Larry G is smarter than Cible day" and you can run to your mommy and she'll put a "My Kid Was Poster of the Day at www.ar15.com" sticker on the back of her minivan.  Boo hoo hoo.  I'm so sowwy I huwt yowe wittow feewings.  All better now?

Don't go away hurt.  Just go away.

Well sir,
I Tend to agree with you.

I feel sorry for the people and I dont blame them.  I would do it too if I were in their shoes.  I agree with HK about the charity bit.  Let me choose.  I also agree with tyler about the businesses hiring these people. Happens alot around here.  My biggest gripe is they come here and all you see is viva mexico and calvin urinating on La Migra stickers pasted on trucks.  This is out and out disrespect for our country.  Love it or leave it.  Sure we were all immigrants with the exception of the Indians.  Blend in and quit wasting our tax dollars for the parasites.  I feel like the Indians do.  You dont work you dont eat.  Let me reinterate that I do feel bad for these people.  I also have friends who come from mexico and they have become citizens and love this country.  I also know some that come here for the purpose of leeching all they can.  What I wonder is how we would be treated if the situation was reversed and we were trying to get into their country.  Something to consider.  I am willing to bet that it would not be treated so mildly.  I am not advocating their murder but I also have not lived on the boarder and had to deal with what those people have.  I would probably treat it on an individual bases as much as I could but I am only human.  I just know that this is not an easy answer.

WTF!!??!!  I'm sure I don't want to see your definition of "hate".  Women?? Children??  What an awful world you must live in...

I would have to agree that we have an illegal immigration problem. But this country has had this problem since Columbus stumbled on to it. The illegal aliens of today are no different from the Euro-trash that migrated to this country years ago. They both do not/did not respect the language or customs of this country. They both brought/bring crime, disease and pestilence. And just like the illegal aliens of today the illegal aliens of yesterday were not wanted. Deportation sounds like a great idea. All non-natives must be shipped back to their point of origin.

Have a happy day. [:)]

Yanqui

Hey everybody I didnt mean to raise total hammock here I just want to get some opinions on this subject! I feel that If they do want to come in the USA for a better life then do it legally! Work for a living instead of making our lives a living hell,I also thin that if they come over her to better their lives then learn our (english) language so that we can communicate with them and get along with them and maybe even try to help them. If some guy wants to help his family out do it right! And cibel I hape yau feol goad thet yoa cen sple bater than ail of us yur moma shuld pute a stecker on har mnivon!Just my opinion!

I Would Like To Take Ever Old Tire In America Pile Them Up Around The Border And By The Time The Tire-d Mex Climbed Over The Pile, You Could Plink Him With A B-B Gun!!!

I HAVE THE ANSWER!

Give immirants a "Conservative/Liberal Quotient Test".  If you score conservative enough, we will welcome you with open arms!  If you score too liberal, we will give you a bad haircut and send you home with a "kick me" sign taped to your back!!!

Tate

...seriously - illegals are a big problem that this country has dedicated far too few resources to correcting...

ps - you do have to give Cible one thing - he is right about the spelling on some of these posts - I wud kik mi kidz as if he speld lik sum of u! [:)]

First, the border should be secured by any means necessary.  Military Force if required.

There are proper methods for entering this country from another.  Those do not include walking across the border at illegal points of entry, and making yourself at home.

The book Civil War 2 goes into great detail about the coming consequences from the excessive migration of Hispanic people into the southwestern region of this nation.  I personally believe we are beyond the point of no return for removal of this illegal population from this region without bloodshed.

At no location in the world have three different ethic groups been able to live together in peace.  To gain a greater understanding of this, read the book.

You must be kidding...
A whole nation of immigrants (because USA are a nation born because people in Europe were starving and looled for a better life in the New World) now want to shoot who is tring to do the same...
Legal means to enter in US. for poor people? Don't let me laugh.
I quote two episodes of how is "simple" to enter USA to make an honest job:
1)1989 I went to New York for a training course about scientific instrumentation and a scientific fair. The Custom Officer asked me WHY I wanted to enter USA. Without thinking I said "For working..." Folks... I NEVER forget for all my life the look of that officer. He was about to deny the permission to enter when I specified that my company sent me in US for ten days for a training course, since the moment my company was importing US products.
2)A very well known (in USA) italian photographer (I don't remember the name now) travelled to New York to set up a exhibition of his pictures. Notice that this man has a studio in NY, had a university degree and can speak properly english. Unfortunately he said that he was going in USA for work... The Custom Officer denied him the permission to work, and only for the intervention of high rank people of the NY township (that knew him) he was able to demonstrate that he wasn't stealing work to honest american tax payer workers...

HKer:
I think you may have stumbled on to something. This could be bigger than Disneyland!!!

BTW, up here in Idaho you would run out of bullets before you ran out of targets!!  

idaho-ar15
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Idaho is da bomb!

PaoloAR15,

I won't try to defend the actions of my ancestors, but look at what happened to the native population that they usurped. Whether or not the natives could have warded off the settlers is debatable, but it would be stupid for us to follow in there footsteps by not defending our borders until it is too late (especially when we are fully capable of doing so). Once a country is unwilling or unable to guard its borders history has shown repeatedly that it is usually the begining of its end.
One of the reasons that it can be so hard to get here legally is because of the illegals. One of the ways illegal aliens get here is to come here for a declared short period of time, and then just disapear. Stoping the problem would allow us to loosen restrictions to legally enter the country.

Kyle

OK, my turn to get flamed.....

    In the years I've been in law enforcement in SC, I've run into a lot of illegals. The majority of them were very good people who worked very hard for what little they got. I learned to respect them for their work ethic and their struggle to fit in (and learn english). I wish it were easier for people like this to become citizens. They are much better people generally than some other groups we have here in the US who ARE citizens.

    This is not to say all illegals are such good people. I've had my run-ins with the hardcases too, and I find some of them to be tougher hombres than some of our home-grown thugs. These are the people we need to be finding and deporting.

    I honestly believe that Hispanics will be the saviors of our country. Culturally, they have a strong work ethic, are religious, and interact well with other cultures. I do believe that english should be taught/required, but as I said before, almost all of them I have met would like to learn.

    Anyway, my .02 worth.

Paul,
While I don't agree with some of the ways that illegals are handled, I would like to commend your comments regarding the Xenophobia we have heard regarding this topic. It is my understanding that some of the British citizens treat Americans the same way, and we speak the language (sort of.)

My ancestors came over from Germany in the 1830's and the majority of them did not learn English until 1917, when it was deemed prudent to take a crash course.
If people want to come here & get a better life, I am all for it. As long as I don't have to pay for them.

Attman - I can spell !I just can't type  !
"ok maybe I did spell a few thing wrong , but a lot of it is my big finger hitting the wrong key"

But hell I can type any way !
Thats more than I can say for some .
I can also speek English !
And damn it I can get a job , and NOT live off the US tax payers !

Flaming you is not my intention.  Someone that spells the same word wrong twice can’t spell.  I’m pretty bad myself.  I just use a spell checker.

[smoke]

A couple of things; PaoloAR15, the reason you had such a problem with Customs is because you had a non-immigrant visa that allowed you to be here for a very specific purpose and the Customs Officer knowing immigration law knew that your visa did not allow you to work in the U.S., so if you (or anyone else with that type of visa) made any kind of assertion that you were coming here to work, he was well within bounds to deny you entry.

Wiggins-while I think your analogy regarding guns causing crime and poverty causing illegal immigration don't add up (poverty isn't an inanimate object and guns aren't a "condition."), you are correct that illegal immigration makes it harder for the people who want to come here legally to do so.

The Democrats don't want to make it easier to obtain non-immigrant visa work permits, because the people that would obtain these, would return back to Mexico after their seasonal work is over knowing they they don't have to worry about getting caught when they try to come back.  Many of these people avail themselves to all of the "free" services that the Dems love to offer and then register to vote illegally via Motor Voter.  One guess as to who they vote for?  The Republicans don't get a free pass either because they have made it almost impossible to audit businesses to see if there are illegals working there.  The whole thing is a big clusterf*ck dominated by politics trying to gain votes and money.

MG

Personally, I find it offensive that in downtown Fort Payne Alabama USA, they print the advertisements outside of Burger King restaurants in SPANISH! In other words, there are so many illegals in Fort Payne, they actually advertise in Spanish! All of these illegals take away jobs from US taxpaying citizens!! They live 15 to 20 in a house, work for wages less than legal citizens, keep overal wages lower and don't pay any taxes, send it all back to Mexico. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! [-!-!-]

Believe me, I am not willing to immigrate in USA... I want only to have in my collection good pieces of american steel (AR15, Colt 1911A1, Garands...). For the rest to be in the old Europe is good for me...

Only one question (because we have the same problem in Italy... but WORSTE because you have mexican, and we have Albanians...): what can happen if a smuggler goes (for example) to the coast of Miami with a boat full of women and children and, while "downloading", it is intercepted by the Navy or the Coast Guard? In Italy the gov. refused to shoot the smugglers, even after the brutal disembarkment of the "passengers"...

PaoloAR15,

I don't know what the Navy would do because here we have a law called Posse Commitatus that prevents the military from operating within or borders, but this does not apply in some situations.

The Coast Guard would arrest the smugglers, and round the illegal immigrants up and send them to deportation camps. I believe that this is the right thing to do. However, if one of the illegal immigrants ran from the Coast Guard, BP, or other LEO I think the use of deadly force should be authorized after giving the fleeing person a verbal warning. Remember just because use of deadly force is authorized does not mean that it will be used (they may simply chase the illegal down). The use of force is totally at the discretion of the LEOs on the scene.

One interesting note about the Coast Guard is that when boarding ships they are authorized to kill anyone who gets a hold of their flashlight (including if they drop it and some one picks it up).

Kyle

The smuggler can be charged with 8USC1324, Alien Smuggling-Bringing In And Harboring Certain Aliens.  This can get you anywhere from 1 year to life in prison and a fine of up to $250K, depending on the circumstances.  A boat load of people is worth a good 10 years, but it depends on the US Attorney prosecuting the case.

MG