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Posted: 8/2/2001 2:53:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 2:51:36 PM EDT by Bollocks]
Hi, This is the newest product of FN Herstal [img]http://users.belgacom.net/armes/F2000/f2000-5.jpg[/img] [img]http://world.guns.ru/assault/f2000_2.jpg[/img] What do you think? Cheers, RG.nl
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:58:43 PM EDT
Friggin' Starship Troopers! Any specs?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:59:23 PM EDT
I think I'll stick with my old FN
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:02:23 PM EDT
I want to see it in action. I've been drooling all over it for about a year now. There's got to be some .mpg footage out there somewhere?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:10:10 PM EDT
It has been officially introduced here in Europe earlier this year, but that was the kind of demo for the press where they do a lot of FA and other 'impressive' stuff. Personally I find the way the rifle ejects its empties a bit dodgy, to say the least. As for specs & info: Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt Overall length: 694 mm Barrel length: 400 mm Weigth: 3.6 kg empty, in standart configuration; 4.6 kg with 40mm grenade launcher Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (any NATO / STANAG type magazines) "The F2000 is a modular weapon system, developed by FN Herstal, Belgium, and introduced in 2001. The F2000 system consist of the F2000 rifle and some add-on modules, that can be installed and removed quicky and without any tools. The F2000 rifle is a gas operated, rotating bolt, select-fire weapon. F2000 features polymer stock with bull-pup layout. The stock has built-in standart rails on the top of the weapon (for different sights and scopes etc) and mounting point ahead of triggerguard, where additional modules may be installed (such as grenade launchers, non-lethal modules etc). In the basic configuration, the upper rails mounts 1.6X magnification optical sights, and the lower mounting point is covered by removable handguard. The unique feature of the F2000 rifle is its' patented front ejection systems: the spent cases, extracted from the chamber, travel from the rear part of the gun to the ejection port near the muzzle via special ejection tube and falls out of the gun at the safe distance from the shooters' face. The details of this system is still unclear, but when combined with completely ambidextrous controls (FN P90 style), this makes the F2000 100% ambidextrous, any time. At the current time, the F2000 rifle may be upgraded, depending on the mission, with FN's 40mm low-velocity grenade launcher (on the lower mount, instead of the handguard), or with XM303 non-lethal module (fires 12Ga BBs with paint or tear gas by the means of the pre-charged air cartridge); other options are handguards with built-in laser pointers or flashlights. The standart low-maginfication combat scope may be replaced by any other scope on WEAVER-style mount, or with FN's proprietary computerized fire control module with laser rangefinder, that calculates the point of aim (and sets the sight reticle) for both the rifle and 40mm grenade launcher." Please note that this is the press info! Cheers, RG.nl
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:21:24 PM EDT
<--- starts to hum the starwars theme freaking space gun
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:25:59 PM EDT
That's just their version of the OICW weapons system initially designed by H&K!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:50:50 PM EDT
Wierd! But, at least I see the grand ole M-16 30rd mag has not changed..... and with a space age M203 too.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:18:27 PM EDT
IMHO the things evil. Each year the power of gubment firearms grows and grows, and each year the quality and power of those the people are allowed to own shrinks and shrinks. I mean in 30 years it will be the difference between muskets and M16's, ya they both shoot lead, but that's the only similarity. How tech can it get? Assault rifles firing 7 mm smart munitions from a mile away? no biggie. Sniper rifles from 3 miles, No biggie. In the grand scheme of things, the people are fuct. alphabeta121
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 7:44:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:27:44 PM EDT
Are Batteries Included ?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:46:34 PM EDT
I want one. It's the gun I had pictured that I described in the ProOrd industry fourum. Loose the huge sight and the giant gren launch and that would be sweet. Can't wait until 04' when a civilian one can come out. [rail]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:52:35 PM EDT
If it wasnt bullpup I could probably get it here, too bad it would be semi and a 5rd mag.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:06:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 9:30:03 PM EDT by cnatra]
Have you guys looke at the P90 ?? It has a similiar look to it. It's a sub gun with a radical (& scary if ballistics are true) new cartridge for LE only! It uses a 5.7mm super high velocity cartridge that can go through Kevlar like a hot knife through butter [:o] www.fnmfg.com Go check it out under products!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:08:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 9:28:39 PM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By alphabeta121: IMHO the things evil. Each year the power of gubment firearms grows and grows, and each year the quality and power of those the people are allowed to own shrinks and shrinks. I mean in 30 years it will be the difference between muskets and M16's, ya they both shoot lead, but that's the only similarity. In the grand scheme of things, the people are fuct. alphabeta121
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You are absolutely correct!!!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:10:28 PM EDT
Important information about availability of ALL 5.7 x 28mm weapon systems and ammunition BATF regulations: All components of this system are tightly regulated by BATF. The P90 (NFA, Class III weapon) can only be sold and registered to a law enforcement agency. The Five-seveN pistol is slightly different. The first sale, which requires the pistol to be legally imported into the US, requires the same procedure as the P90. A BATF Form 6 is needed which the chief or the second in command must sign. The pistol can then be removed from the Custom Bonded Warehouse and shipped to the agency. The ammunition is controlled in much the same manner, an approved BATF Form 6 is required then the ammunition can be shipped direct to the agency. The 5.7x28mm weapon system is comprised of three components: the 5.7x28mm ammunition, the P90 Submachine gun, and the Five-seveN handguns. The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm, being a front line type combat ammunition, is far too potent to address close combat situation or urban warfare. The SS190 due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The SS190 virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound cavity and quick incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90 and achieve the same result up to 50 meters with the FsN handgun. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. There are four types of ammunition: the duty SS190 (0.41c/round), the tracer L191 (0.69c), the subsonic Sb193 (0.44c) and the training round T194 (0.29c). The ammunition is available from a CBW stateside (Belgium production) or made by Winchester Olin and stored here at FN Manufacturing. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90 and 2,133fps with the FsN. The weapons system components are the P90 Submachine Gun, the Five-seveN Double Action and the FsN Tactical. P90: Light (6.6lbs w/ 50 rounds of ammunition), compact, easy to fire, both semi and full automatic, reliable and effective. Available in a standard model $1,250.00(suggested LE Price) or with integrated laser $1850.00(suggested LE Price). A complete line of accessories is available such as silencer, sling, rails etc. The weapon can be configured in many variations. Five-seveN Pistol: Light (1.64lbs w/ 20 rounds of ammunition), simple, reliable and highly effective. Available in a Double Action models (about 12.00lbs trigger pull) or Single Action Tactical (about 5.00lbs trigger pull). The FsN DAO sells for $585.00(suggested LE Price) while the Tactical sells for $650.00(suggested LE Price). Available with night sight and modular tactical light and laser, at additional cost. Various manufacturers offer holster such as DeSantis, Gould&Goodrich, London Bridge Trading Co., Blackhawk Eagle etc. this for both tactical and duty in leather or webbing. A list of the departments using the 5.7 WS is available upon request. Your department can request T&E weapon(s) with ammunition or ask us to provide an on site presentation and demonstration of our weapons.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:11:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By alphabeta121: IMHO the things evil. Each year the power of gubment firearms grows and grows, and each year the quality and power of those the people are allowed to own shrinks and shrinks. I mean in 30 years it will be the difference between muskets and M16's, ya they both shoot lead, but that's the only similarity. How tech can it get? Assault rifles firing 7 mm smart munitions from a mile away? no biggie. Sniper rifles from 3 miles, No biggie. In the grand scheme of things, the people are fuct. alphabeta121
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Firearms cannot be good or evil. i would'nt worry about sniper rifles shooting 3 miles. due too lay of land, how could they zoom in on you unless you stood out in the open in kansas. smart ammunition is the only thing that would scare me! a bull-pup is nothing new, just a shorter rifle. only a "tactical" advantage in cqb. we can buy AR pistols that could perform the same roll. bushmaster makes a bull-pup based on the AR-15. it however does not shoulder well, but maybe they'll redeisign the stock and sights someday. if such a weapon were ever used to subjugate american citizens. why not capture them french marqui style [:D] untactical lib
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:16:44 PM EDT
P90 5.7mm SUB-MACHINE GUN Operation: Blowback mechanism firing from closed breech Weight with Loaded Magazine: 6.6 lbs. Magazine Capacity: 50 rds Firing Modes: Single shot, full automatic Cyclic Rate of Fire: 900 rpm Maximum Effective Range: 200m SS190 Ammunition: Caliber: 5.7mm Weight: 93 grains Projectile Weight: 31 grains Recoil Impulse: 0.44 lb/s Muzzle Velocity: 2,346 fps Perforation at 200m: Body Armor Kevlar >48 plies of Kevlar PASGT helmet Accuracy with P90 (7.9 in.) (10 shots) Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public) P90STD: $1,250 P90STD Auto: $1,350
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:17:35 PM EDT
....what if somebody casted their own .223 bullets in the same way as the 5.7mm.... unreloading lib
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 9:16:14 PM EDT by Kalifornia]
[size=6]DAMN[/size=6]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:19:45 PM EDT
5.7 x 28 mm Ammunition It is a sad commentary on the time we live but the criminal element, which police are facing today, is more and more determined and resourceful. They could be classified as professionals who carefully choose their targets, weapons, and protection, which as the Bank of America and other recent incidents prove often include personal body armor. This is the reason why FN Herstal developed the 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition for the P90 submachine gun and the Five-seveN pistol. The round will consistently penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar where all known 9 mm, .40 cal. and .45 cal. bullets will just bounce off. The light weight, high velocity bullet will tumble on impact, ensuring reliable incapacitation without over-penetration. Low recoil impulses makes follow-up shots quick and accurate because we know that in spite of all the hype written about new wonder bullets in the industry bullet placement is the single most important factor in ending a lethal confrontation. Technical Data: SS190 (Ball) L191 (Tracer) Sb193(subsonic) T194(training) Cartridge length: 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm Cartridge weight: 93 grains - 6 grams 93 grains - 6 grams 118 grains - 7.6 grams 88 grains - 5.75 grams Projectile weight: 31 grains - 2.02 grams 31 grains - 2.02 grams 55 grains - 3.6 grams 27 grains - 1.75 grams Recoil impulse: 1.95 kgm/s 1.95 kgm/s 1.3 kgm/s Chamber Pressure: 345 Mpa max piezo 345 Mpa max piezo 345 Mpa max piezo Accuracy with P90 10-round group (H+L) at 50 meters: 5.9 in. - 15 cm 7.9 in. - 20 cm 7.9 in. - 20 cm Muzzle velocity: - with P90 2346 fps - 715 m/s 2346 fps - 715 m/s 984 fps - 300 m/s 705 m/s -with Five seveN 2132 fps - 650 m/s 2132 fps - 650 m/s - 640 m/s Effective range with P90: 200 meters 200 meters 50 meters Minimum penetration Class IIIA body armor: 200 meters 200 meters 50 meters Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public) Price per unit in thousands SS190: $0.41 Sb193 Subsonic: $0.45 L191 Tracer: $0.71 T194 Training Round: $0.29 Modified: 07/03/01
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:21:20 PM EDT
Five-seveN Pistol Advantages: The Five seveN Pistol is the companion weapon to the P90 sub-machine gun. The Five seveN is an easily concealable double action pistol with a larger, 20-round magazine capacity. A maximum use has been made of composite materials in the frame and slide to result in an extremely light weight, 1.7 pound, design. The 5.7x28mm ammunition has the capability of penetrating body armor at extended ranges. This new ammunition features a lead-free projectile to eliminate environmental concerns. NATO STANAG classification for the ammunition is currently underway. Technical Data: Length: 8.2 inches Height: 5.4 inches Weight: -Empty 1.4 pounds -Loaded 1.7 pounds Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds Penetrate PASGT vest 300 meters Penetrate PASGT helmet 240 meters Penetrate CRISAT vest 100 meters Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public) Five-seveN D.A.: $585 Available! Five-seveN D.A.N.S: $702 Available Mid 2001
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:40:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertarian:
Originally Posted By alphabeta121: IMHO the things evil. Each year the power of gubment firearms grows and grows, and each year the quality and power of those the people are allowed to own shrinks and shrinks. I mean in 30 years it will be the difference between muskets and M16's, ya they both shoot lead, but that's the only similarity. How tech can it get? Assault rifles firing 7 mm smart munitions from a mile away? no biggie. Sniper rifles from 3 miles, No biggie. In the grand scheme of things, the people are fuct. alphabeta121
View Quote
Firearms cannot be good or evil. i would'nt worry about sniper rifles shooting 3 miles. due too lay of land, how could they zoom in on you unless you stood out in the open in kansas. smart ammunition is the only thing that would scare me! a bull-pup is nothing new, just a shorter rifle. only a "tactical" advantage in cqb. we can buy AR pistols that could perform the same roll. bushmaster makes a bull-pup based on the AR-15. it however does not shoulder well, but maybe they'll redeisign the stock and sights someday. if such a weapon were ever used to subjugate american citizens. why not capture them french marqui style [:D] untactical lib
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I don't think alphabeta121 means this gun, or an OICW would outclass current civilian weaponry. But, after 4 or 5 new generations of government only firearms, our guns could be significantly outclassed. And remember, we will never be able to buy the next gun issued to US infantry, even when they are 4 generations ahead of that gun. The comparison to muskets/M16s is what I fear. In 50 years, the average civilian will have no chance against whatever body armor, and firearms the government issues its troops. The current GCA of '86 needs to be repealed. With that GCA in place, we are stuck with old style rifles forever. Even if the '94 bill sunsets, what's that get us, hi-caps, collapsable stocks, and flash hiders? We still won't be able to buy a modern assualt rifle. I WANT MY SIG 550!!!! Stupid laws. Enough complaining, back on topic... I don't like any bullpup that makes the rifle difficult to clean, or replace parts. that FN Herstal looks like its got 10-12 screws to remove just to get started. And why is the stock so fat in the back? Looks like the made the whole thing wide bodied just for looks?
Link Posted: 8/4/2001 10:09:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cnatra: 5.7 x 28 mm Ammunition It is a sad commentary on the time we live but the criminal element, which police are facing today, is more and more determined and resourceful. They could be classified as professionals who carefully choose their targets, weapons, and protection, which as the Bank of America and other recent incidents prove often include personal body armor. This is the reason why FN Herstal developed the 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition for the P90 submachine gun and the Five-seveN pistol. The round will consistently penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar where all known 9 mm, .40 cal. and .45 cal. bullets will just bounce off. The light weight, high velocity bullet will tumble on impact, ensuring reliable incapacitation without over-penetration. Low recoil impulses makes follow-up shots quick and accurate because we know that in spite of all the hype written about new wonder bullets in the industry bullet placement is the single most important factor in ending a lethal confrontation. Technical Data: SS190 (Ball) L191 (Tracer) Sb193(subsonic) T194(training) Cartridge length: 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm 1.59 in. - 40.5 mm Cartridge weight: 93 grains - 6 grams 93 grains - 6 grams 118 grains - 7.6 grams 88 grains - 5.75 grams Projectile weight: 31 grains - 2.02 grams 31 grains - 2.02 grams 55 grains - 3.6 grams 27 grains - 1.75 grams Recoil impulse: 1.95 kgm/s 1.95 kgm/s 1.3 kgm/s Chamber Pressure: 345 Mpa max piezo 345 Mpa max piezo 345 Mpa max piezo Accuracy with P90 10-round group (H+L) at 50 meters: 5.9 in. - 15 cm 7.9 in. - 20 cm 7.9 in. - 20 cm Muzzle velocity: - with P90 2346 fps - 715 m/s 2346 fps - 715 m/s 984 fps - 300 m/s 705 m/s -with Five seveN 2132 fps - 650 m/s 2132 fps - 650 m/s - 640 m/s Effective range with P90: 200 meters 200 meters 50 meters Minimum penetration Class IIIA body armor: 200 meters 200 meters 50 meters Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public)
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So anyone think a person could wildcat an equivalent cartridge like this themselves?
Link Posted: 8/4/2001 10:53:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2001 10:50:25 PM EDT by Doktor_Jeep]
I drooled over the FN P90 and now THIS. One more gun we can't have anyway. Someday. -Doktor Jeep http://www.counterinsurrection.com<- always updated.
Link Posted: 8/4/2001 11:38:10 PM EDT
is it FN's mission statement to make as ugly guns as possible? I mean look at the stocks on the 249 and 240, the p90 and this ugly thing. I dont need a gun with fins and a spoiler
Link Posted: 8/5/2001 12:16:09 AM EDT
That has to be the ugliest damn gun I've ever seen. Not even a Borchardt could match this gun for pure ugly. This gun is made from concentrated ugly in liquid form, pored into an ugly mould, and heated to optimum ugly temperature. It is then cooled, beaten with an ugly sitck and dropped out of the ugly tree. In case you haven't figured it out, I think the gun is damn ugly.
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