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Posted: 8/2/2001 8:55:14 AM EDT
My ansewer is not only no but hell no. The Brits are saying give us your guns while we keep ours and trust us we will treat you fair. Whats your opinion.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:58:15 AM EDT
Of course. Dangerous dissidents like that need to be disarmed so they can be oppressed by their government. Just like we need to be disarmed. Or not. [:D]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:59:32 AM EDT
I agree, hell no. Can't trust that socialist British government. Ireland should adopt a Bill of Rights similar to ours.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:59:47 AM EDT
absolutely! isn't it the intent of all breathing humans to be subjugated, told what to think, how to pray, and who to pay??
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:01:07 AM EDT
Sure they should, providing they get a nifty yellow star to wear on their shirts...
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:01:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS: My ansewer is not only no but hell no. The Brits are saying give us your guns while we keep ours and trust us we will treat you fair. Whats your opinion.
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They absolutely SHOULD give up their weapons- but only if they want to be screwed over, lied to, and cheated by those lousy Brits. Remember- disarmament is the first sterp to slavery. Can you imagine if that was tried here? We'd be losing alot of people and spilling a lot of our own blood to keep our weapons. "Fear the Government That Fears Your Guns!!"
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:18:48 AM EDT
They should give up their arms as soon as the British put on trial the Paras who fired the shots at the unarmed housing rights marchers on "Bloody Sunday," January 13, 1972. They should give up their arms as soon as the UVF and UFF do. They should give up their arms as soon as the British Army and RUC stop giving intel and support to the UFF and UVF. They should give up their arms as soon as the H-Blocks are bulldozed.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:36:05 AM EDT
Actually the current deal would disarm the UVF and UFF as well but members of that orginization are also military and police who have easy access to arms. Not to mention the fact that the UVF and UFF can be reamed by the military very quickly.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:42:27 AM EDT
Disarm......and surrender......to the Brits?... HELL NO!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 10:09:01 AM EDT
They have no reason to budge on the issue of arms, they are winning. They are also coverning for the fact that they wouldnt be able to deliver on a disarmament. They dont have that kind of control over their units. The only way the IRA can make one if its cels turn in guns is to turn them into the police or send hit men after them.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 10:23:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 10:21:51 AM EDT by Kofi Annan]
Gentlemen, I hope and pray that the IRA will come to the inevitable conclusion that violence is not the answer! Generations of fine Irish men, women and children have become embroiled in this never ending conflict, to no avail! And, the senseless murder of innocent English civilians on English soil is nothing short of barbaric! We at the United Nations offer our assistance in any way required. We will forever strive in our endless quest to unite the peoples of the world in harmony! We are the messengers of peace! Thank you.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 10:29:53 AM EDT
IRA forever never give up!!!!! The Scottish did it now it's the Irish's turn to kick the British asses. SCOTLAND & IRELAND RULE
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 10:43:39 AM EDT
I wouldn't suppose any of you are wondering which side of [b]this[/b] fence I'd come down on.... (Oh, and Kofi? Kiss my Gaelic ass)
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 12:47:02 PM EDT
It's more like they should be re-armed with enough weaponry to blast the freakin Brits the Hell out of there!!! [rocket] [rocket] [rocket] ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 12:54:43 PM EDT
I'm amazed. I thought I was the only blind-furious-pig-headed-Brit-hater in the crew. Where were all of you when raf and I were spitting at each other over on the Tim Roth thread?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 12:55:58 PM EDT
I don't think the brits get it, maybe they need some more explosions.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 1:06:23 PM EDT
The only way it's ever going to end will be when the Brits stop appeasing the Prods in the North, people that they (the Brits) moved in there over a 100 year period, to cement their hold over Ireland. The six counties of Ulster remaining in the Brits Empire must be returned. Then you'll have peace, and an honorable peace for all. It's not for nothing that the flag of free Ireland contains both the Green and the Orange. 26 AND 6 = ONE!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 1:09:56 PM EDT
No, never disarm voluntarily. I don't fully understand the dynamics of the situation in Northern Ireland, it is extremely complex, BUT I do believe the British should withdraw all military and/or police forces from Ireland. It's the twenty first century, colonialism is supposed to be dead. Ireland is fully capable of determining their own path. If they choose to remain part of the United Kingdom, so be it. I personally have mixed feelings on this issue. I was born in Liverpool (army brat). I am a true mutt, English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh ancestry. I have relatives in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. I am Catholic. All of my relatives that I have broached this subject with are fully in favor of total withdrawal of all British military forces from Ireland. My take is that it is the British government, and not the British people, who are the villains in this situation. However, I also believe that the conflict has gone on so long, and the hatred is so intense, that if British troops were to withdraw, the gutters of the larger Northern Ireland cities would run red with blood.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 1:16:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle: Disarm......and surrender......to the Brits?... HELL NO!
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My thoughts exactly. I don't trust britian...
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:07:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt: I'm amazed. I thought I was the only blind-furious-pig-headed-Brit-hater in the crew. Where were all of you when raf and I were spitting at each other over on the Tim Roth thread?
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Nope, I'm pretty fed up with the socialist politics of Britain--they now want to ban BB guns there. What a joke! I can't believe Australia and New Zealand went for the ban also. They must have feelings of inferiority and want to show their old masters how civilized they are. The IRA did some terrible things, but hey war is hell.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:27:44 PM EDT
They should surrender all of their old, crappy and broken assult rifles. It's about time for the IRA to upgrade anyway. F-2000? AN-94? M-96? HK G-36? etc. Orangemen will find out soon what it's like to be a minority. Catholics are growing the in geometric proportions. It's already really close, something like 52%-48%. You always here this crap that "most" of the Northern Irish want to stay part of the British Union. The fact the Brits always leave out is that if you are Catholic, you don't get any voice in important votes. Just like the blacks in the former South Africa. You can't maintain this kind of aparthied forever. When the "Greens" eventually gain the majority things will have to change or that tiny area of the world will make Beirut look like Disneyland. Adopting a US styled Constitution would do wonders in that region.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:29:17 PM EDT
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ! Semper Fi
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 2:45:46 PM EDT
Well, considering that the last time I heard anything, the IRA was a diehard communist organization dedicated to turning Ireland into a place that looks a lot like Cuba (but without the palm trees), I think the IRA members should all be strung up by the balls and slowly pushed feet-first through a chipper. Yeah, I know -- "heroic freedom fighter" sells a lot better in American newspapers than "communist guerilla".
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:13:18 PM EDT
One must remember one thing. The IRA and the Catholics that support the independence of Northern Ireland are a small minority of the general pro British population of Northern Ireland. Minority, get it? If it was the other way around, they may have more support. But dealing with problems with AKs is just not on, and I reckon in this case the pen is mightier than the sword! With that in mind, with all these tit for tat killings etc. A terrorist org like the IRA must be disarmed. They are an illegal para military force. On the other side the UDF etc must be disarmed too. Gotta give peace a chance here. Too many innocent people killed. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and until that changes, they are governed by the British wether we like it or not.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:18:28 PM EDT
Yeah-Sure......sign this "peace agreement".......then voluntarily hand in your weapons...........better yet, make a "peace" pact with the UN.........[whacko]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:23:33 PM EDT
This is as simple as, should we in the NRA turn in our guns to the UN? I think thats as clear as it gets!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:32:43 PM EDT
This is a conflict that has been ongoing for almost a thousand years. It will not be easy to resolve even when everyone desires it. The IRA is nothing but a terrorist organization. But if they turn in their arms, they betray all Irishmen who have given their lives in the struggle against British domination. HELL NO. MOLON LABE
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:34:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 3:31:02 PM EDT by 1feral1]
The UN could not manage a gangbang in a brothel with a fist full of $100 dollar notes, yet alone, manage a hard-on! The biggest money taking criminal org in the world!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:46:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1feral1: The UN could not manage a gangbang in a brothel with a fist full of $100 dollar notes, yet alone, manage a hard-on! The biggest money taking criminal org in the world!
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AMEN!!!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:24:21 PM EDT
I`m in for everybody sending them a couple of full magazines...........[heavy]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:54:09 PM EDT
"Give me Liberty or give me Death" [heavy] [rocket] [heavy] [rocket]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 5:00:26 PM EDT
Whoa, I knew that we were pretty radical on this Board, but I never figured THIS radical. No, IMHO, the IRA is a terrorist group that seeks to impose some sort of b.s. marxist government on the entire Isle. It should be disarmed. They aligned themselves with the Soviet block during the Cold War, and with Ghadaffi, Castro, Bader-Meinhoff Gang, the Red Brigades, the Red Army, Black September, and just about every other b.s. group in the world. It's not like the IRA is proposing to establish a representative Republic of Eire when they are finished with the Unionists in Ulster. Their Ireland will look a lot bleaker than Blair's socialist Britain. You really think they'll respect the rights of the 'new minority' of Protestants once their goal of unification is complete? No, the governments in Dublin and Belfast are the only two proper parties to decide the Isle's future, with no interference by the Brits or the IRA (and Sein Finn, as well). I'm for any radicals or revolutionaries who believe in the establishment of a Republic of limited government, civil rights, and the RKBA. The IRA simply ain't such an outfit! Eric The(MoreThanADropOfIrishBlood)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 5:45:52 PM EDT
Eric....that`s because it`s gone too far.....put yourself in thier shoes.....what about...isreal/palistines......checzknia......africa.....anywhere people are depressed, it will be similar.....what IF it REALLY started to happen here?..........[:)]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 6:12:01 PM EDT
Hell NO We Wont Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 7:32:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1feral1: One must remember one thing. The IRA and the Catholics that support the independence of Northern Ireland are a small minority of the general pro British population of Northern Ireland. Minority, get it? If it was the other way around, they may have more support. But dealing with problems with AKs is just not on, and I reckon in this case the pen is mightier than the sword! With that in mind, with all these tit for tat killings etc. A terrorist org like the IRA must be disarmed. They are an illegal para military force. On the other side the UDF etc must be disarmed too. Gotta give peace a chance here. Too many innocent people killed. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and until that changes, they are governed by the British wether we like it or not.
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HELL NO! Fred
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 8:30:46 PM EDT
Absolutely* *only after the British Army and UDF disarms.... Otherwise...the Brits can stick where the sun don't shine...
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 11:54:51 PM EDT
Tiocfaidh ar la
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 12:50:59 AM EDT
Seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around here. All the people of N Ireland get to vote - Catholics and Protestants alike. Sinn Fein, the IRA's political wing, get very few elected members to the British Parliament. This is democracy at work - i.e. only a very small minority of NI population want to be a part of Ireland. A suitable analogy might be that trouble flares up in Hawaii - a small group of armed rebels want independence from the USA. Should the US Govt give in to their demands, or have a ballot of the people of Hawaii to see what the majority would like to do ? I seem to recall that the last time a majority (of the population of the Southern States) wanted to leave the Union, they were forcibly oppressed ! Something to think about. For those who say give Ireland back to the Irish - OK, BUT the native Americans have a stronger case to reclaim their continent. Would you accept all those of non Native American blood being sent back to where their ancestors came from ? This is a complex issue, there is no simple solution (hell, even Bill Clinton couldn't solve that problem - g) If British troops pulled out tomorrow there would be civil war, and the IRA would come off worst - they are few against many. Having said all the above, I don't belive that the IRA, or anyone else in the world, should give up their weapons. Being armed is a basic human right
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 1:12:51 AM EDT
There are those in power here, who think of the NRA as a terrorist organization. George Washington's crew were thought of as a terrorist organization. There will come a day when those of you who refuse to surrender your arms will be labeled terrorists by your government, the press, the world. tar agus glac iad
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 2:39:59 AM EDT
Should they?? Absolutely f****** not!!!!
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 3:33:11 AM EDT
Sorry, I just have a problem with the English.[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 3:48:27 AM EDT
Every INDIVIDUAL has a natural RIGHT and OBLIGATION to protect themselves and their family from those that would do them harm. As an extension of this natural course of reason ALL individuals should have access to the MEANS by which to protect themselves. Only those INDIVIDUALS who demonstrate a willingness to harm others should be disarmed and controlled!
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 4:30:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2001 4:27:55 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Post from Makarov -
Every INDIVIDUAL has a natural RIGHT and OBLIGATION to protect themselves and their family from those that would do them harm.
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Absolutely, so the IRA should cap every Ulsterman they find crossing the border going south to kill and maim their people! And [i]vice versa.[/i] Post from celt -
There are those in power here, who think of the NRA as a terrorist organization. George Washington's crew were thought of as a terrorist organization. There will come a day when those of you who refuse to surrender your arms will be labeled terrorists by your government, the press, the world.
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Yes, 'they' may think that way, but we know better than 'they' do, and the NRA is, fairly and objectively considered, NOT a terrorist group, NOR were G. Washington and friends, NOR will we be in the event that WE refuse to surrender OUR arms. Do you know anything of the IRA's politics and what sort of government they would seek to impose on the whole isle? 'Cause I really don't know much more than that they were Marxists, but my info may be stale. And I NEVER NEVER NEVER (you get the idea) EVER SUPPORT MARXISTS. Eric The(NotEvenCHRISTIANMarxists,IfSuchExist)Hun[­>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 4:33:19 AM EDT
Fuck no they shouldn't disarm! To hell with the Brits!
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 4:48:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2001 4:46:55 AM EDT by Jarhead_22]
What the folks blathering about "Democracy for All" in the North of Ireland don't seem to get is this: The British invaded the soveriegn nation of Ireland -the entire country. They displaced the lawful owners of the land. They gave the land as payment to the officers in their army, who brought their families over and started the importation of what's become the majority in the North. Those officers then rented the land to the Irish, in some cases, the original owners, for more money than the land could produce -a practice called wrackrenting. This set up a plantation system in Ireland, where the people who lived on and worked the land didn't own it, and actually had to borrow from the landowners to stay afloat, tying them by debt to the land. Different organizations sprung up to fight this system over the years. The Fenian Brotherhood, the Volunteers, etc. They eventually semi-unified under the banner of the Irish Republican Army and fought the strongest army in the world to a draw. In 1921, the British had retreated to Ulster, the most economically productive area of the country. They agreed to the partition of Ireland, which was hotly debated, but the people had gotten tired of fighting all the time. That's how the six counties of the North became majority Protestant British. The majority of the North considers themselves British and won't vote Sinn Fein because they're British imports and they've had it their own way for a long time. Can anyone really say they're suprised at the political philosophy of the IRA, or the people they've accepted help from in the past? The US government knows that Ireland is a sideline player in world events, and picked the Brits over the Irish, even though the Irish had right on their side. It was simple political pragmatism. If we, the nation of Democracy and freedom, wouldn't help them, who would? We turn our back on these freedom fighters and then act horrified when they go to the other major player in world events. The British and the Prods of the North of Ireland have been abusing, killing, imprisoning without trial and F^%(ing over the rightful owners of that country for centuries. They shouldn't squeal when the shoe is on the other foot. Anyone ever heard of the Black and Tans? The Auxies? The RUC? Yeah, like the British have the right to bitch about terrorism. They practically invented it. Britain waives the rules!
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 5:12:43 AM EDT
Yes, 'they' may think that way, but we know better than 'they' do, and the NRA is, fairly and objectively considered, NOT a terrorist group, NOR were G. Washington and friends, NOR will we be in the event that WE refuse to surrender OUR arms.
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Are you telling us that when guns are banned, and you say, "No, I'll keep mine, thanks" that the duly authorized law enforcement sent to collect them will just go away? And if they don't, you'll have to shoot back. And you're telling us that every major media in this country will not paint you black when you do? You will be called a terrorist, and worse, by the overwhelming majority of the people in this nation. You're already pretty suspect in many large circles. "Fairly and objectively considered" by whom? I'm sure Schumer and Boxer et al feel they are fairly and objectively considering our status. If a foreign army killed my children, raped my wife and stole my land with the full approval of the "free" world, I would accept any help I could get and use any tactics I could to repay. And that same free world would cluck their tounges in disapproval and slap no end of labels on me.
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 5:40:49 AM EDT
And just as an aside, while I have a full head of steam up anyway...the parallel to the situation of the Native Americans is often brought up whenever Ireland is discussed. Were I Native American, yes, I'd still be pissed. If they tried to take back the land by force, they'd certainly be called terrorists, although a good case could be made that right is on their side. And it could be argued that they're still fighting, just by economic methods now. Ever been in one of their many casinos? They're full of elderly white people, wreathed in smoke, mindlessly pouring away their social security checks. The NAs lost the battle, but found a way to steadily drain some of our most vulnerable people and get rich in the process. Good for them...but some would....do...call the Native Americans pretty nasty names for doing it. tar agus glac iad
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 6:00:35 AM EDT
I think we should ask Bono what to do, he'd know. I mean being that hes Irish AND a rock star. If there is one thing I've learned growing up with MTV, its that rock stars and celebrities have special insight to life that burdens them with telling us poor mundane laymen how to live.
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 8:53:33 AM EDT
Bono grew up in Dublin and sold his soul for fame a long time ago. [b]I[/b] have probably spent more time in Belfast than he has.
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 9:09:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AK2KX: Should they disarm? Hell no! Isn't it true that there are only something like 400 core IRA members? If that small group of people can cause years of grief to the Brits, imagine what several million pissed off gun owners in this country could do. [:)]
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And I'll wager, given our history of "gunloving", that there is probably more hardware over here, in terms of military weaponry. I think gun owners over here are just as intimidating to a potential invading force as out military. Admiral Yamamoto said in WWII, "if you ever tried to invade the mainland US there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" Ronnie
Link Posted: 8/3/2001 10:27:17 AM EDT
Hell no, they should not disarm. Once they do that the brits will have their way with them. We all know how we can trust the brits, hell, the brits can't trust the brits, so screw 'em. The reason the IRA has dealt with communist governments is because who else wolud openly piss off the brits and help them? No one. I can't say I agree with everything they have done, but untill you are in the same situation, you will never know. To call the IRA a terrorist organization, well remember that our founding fathers were the same, a terrorist organization.........untill the won, then the brits wanted to be friends. Happiness is a warm gun... Bang bang, shoot shoot...
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