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Posted: 8/1/2001 8:54:52 PM EDT
Given your choice of a 9mm carbine for self defense, which would you choose? (Hint-I'm looking for Steyr AUG's input here, particularly). I'm determined to buy one or the other, but not both. I could either build up a 9mm conversion on my one and only preban lower(:|), or build up a HK94 on a SW receiver, assembly and decent parts courtesy of PROTECH. Reliability and useability are key here, not collectability or price(though I'm well apprised of which is the more expensive option). There are also my personal concerns with both- Pros of the 9mm ar15- Familiar controls- More plentiful parts- Lesser felt recoil with Buffer(admittedly already low)- Don't have to switch weapons platforms(already own AR15's, don't own a 94) Cons- Mags not curved for hollowpoints like most MP5 mags- Not a dedicated 9mm, thus possibly problematic- Cost/trouble of mag block- Magazine cost is hovering at about $50 for Used Colt 30's/or new Asian 40's for MP5 mags, so that's not really a factor. Let me put it this way- I know the 9mm Colt conversion will do the job of the HK94(or clone), and probably allow me to use more existing components, but will I regret not having bought the real deal? I want the HK94, but am I wasting my money? Again, the point is usability, save-my-behind, not how collectable or valuable each will be. Help! Juggernaut
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 9:00:18 PM EDT
After having played around with an SW5 for the better part of a year now, I'm wishing I had just bought an Oly 9mm upper. The price of H&K mags is truly outrageous. The sights on the H&K suck big time, and the long 16" barrel looks like hell (sorry, I won't go SBR and be registered by the crooks in DC). They ain't worth the price and the frustration. There have been many threads about the utility of a 9mm carbine. I enjoy shooting mine at the pepper poppers at my local range--you can fire three shots into each before they fall down and you don't damage them and it's a load of fun. For any serious work, I'd stick with a 5.56 with good tactical ammo knowing that most people use soft body armor these days.
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 9:02:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 3:43:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 3:40:31 AM EDT by drfcolt]
I like mine - looks better than an MP-5/HK-94 and is a dream to fire (if an MP-5 is any better - must be heaven - don't know, never fired one). Colt Suppressed 9MM SMG: - EA-Wilson RR lower with Cross-Fire mag-block - Gemtech Talon-SD suppressed 9MM upper - Trijicon Reflex II - Knights RIS/sling-swivel adapter/vertical pistol-grip - Hogue grip - Colt 2-position CAR stock - MWS/GGG sling-support [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=258760&a=13421952&p=52238933[/img]
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:52:28 AM EDT
Sorry but why the 9mm? They do have the uppers in 40S&W, 10mm and 45ACP they are much better defense rounds.The other round they may cost a little more but hell go the full 9. I found a place that sells the 45 acp uppers with 30 rd mags now your telling me that you would not want the full power of 30 45ACP rounds.If I was going to choose one I'd got with almost any other round then 9mm. But I don't know if you want the 9mm do to there is a lot of the hi cap mags out there that are cheap? Or is this just going to be used as a defense rifle for your home
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 9:02:50 AM EDT
OK here is the deal. I've got "some" experience with 9mm ARs. I've never encountered problems with function but have heard they exist. Generally 9mm AR mags are more difficult to get than MP5. I just got 10 - 40 round curved mags for $50.00 each. The Colt rifle is cheaper. I would recommend against the clone route. The only way to do it is to get a SW5 receiver(yuk, but the only postban you'll ever see)and find a German MP5 part kit on Subguns.com and get it built at Protech. If possible better to get a real German HK94. The HK94 accepts a wide variety of platforms that are mission specific. Takes a true sidefolder(unlike the AR) and is just unreal to shoot. It is the most accurate point and shoot carbine I've ever had.
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 4:11:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2001 4:10:01 PM EDT by Juggernaut]
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Well, the main purpose of the 9mm round in a light compact carbine is for home defense, or any other indoor CQB. It's a NATO caliber, has light recoil for easy follow up's, even with the petite or aged(a concern, should my family members need to use it), safer to fire indoors, better on the old ears, ammo is interchangeable with my serious sidearm, the USF9F, and with 9mm 124 gr. Hydrashoks in either one, and the acceptable velocity from a "16 bbl, I wouldn't feel underarmed in most situations. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up my 5.56 AR's for anything, but the advantages I listed above are compelling enough that I feel that either one fills a niche in my arsenal. Now, as to which one to get, I'm still torn. I didn't hear any serious objections to either the AR or the HK, and didn't really expect to. Pros and cons, I already had pretty much figured out, and none of them, or anything added by you guys really "makes or breaks" the deal. I'm probably going to go with the AR15, as I can't really see the compelling advantage right now, that's worth the extra cost of an HK94. (OK, so I was stretching it when I indicated that price was not an object. Reliability is the main concern, but I'm not covinced that I can get a reliable 9mm AR15, and save some cash for an Aimpoint). One of the slightly more major concerns is magazines, as I don't feel comfortable without a large supply of mags for any serious "social" weapon. 30 and 40 round mil. contract mags now run at $25 and $30, respectively. Thanks for your input, all. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 5:00:27 PM EDT
As far as the mag prices go, you have several choices for the AR 9mm: CDNN Investments sells South African Colt 9mm mags for like $25 ea. They're not bad, from what I've heard. Or, if you go with an Oly type conversion, you can use Sten mags or Uzi mags. Some are converted with a block welded onto them (ugly), or for $125 you can get a magwell adapter. Go to the pistol and rimfire forum for more info, they're always discussing that stuff. My one question is, will a sten mag feed hollowpoints reliably?
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 5:17:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: As far as the mag prices go, you have several choices for the AR 9mm: CDNN Investments sells South African Colt 9mm mags for like $25 ea. They're not bad, from what I've heard. Or, if you go with an Oly type conversion, you can use Sten mags or Uzi mags. Some are converted with a block welded onto them (ugly), or for $125 you can get a magwell adapter. Go to the pistol and rimfire forum for more info, they're always discussing that stuff. My one question is, will a sten mag feed hollowpoints reliably?
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Sten mags are really too weird for me. They're actually too wide for a double stack 9mm magazine, and the blocks are ugly, and ensure that you can't put them in mag pouches. Hollowpoints, I can't say, but they're so roomy, I don't see why not. Only way to know is to try. BTW, I don't really recommend Speer Hollowpoints, as they seem to jam everything. I actually already have my eye on the 30 round SA mags, the problem now is to afford as many of them as I want while they last Again, thanks, and if anyone can give me advice on my delemmia, or point out anything I've missed, please do. Right now, I racking my brains on the cheapest way to couple a Colt 9mm 16" barrel with a flattop upper... I sense a new addiction in the offing![:D] Juggernaut
Link Posted: 8/2/2001 5:42:29 PM EDT
I got a "Colt" 9mm magazine from Pro Mag a few months back. I am fairly sure that it was a poorly converted Uzi magazine. I had to grind a slot in the back to get it to work, and it still would not hold the bolt open. Even post ban Colt mags are mostly unavailable, and Colt reliability is spotty, at best. The FX 9mm uppers are Olys, and I use those with M4s. I have fired thousands of rounds of Simunitions through those, and I have had one malfunction. For comparison, my Colt 9mm usually double feeds or has some other bizarre malfunction on the first burst, every time I shoot it. Not very confidence building, and if I have a choice, I carry a pistol or my M4 for the real stuff.
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