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Posted: 7/31/2001 7:36:43 AM EDT
[#1]
ROTFLMAO, as well, Garand Shooter!
More tough talk of what they WILL do, but still no track record. Can you name me one gun law that has [b]passed[/b] since the Republicans took over Congress in January, 1995? I'd say that was one hell of a track record considering Pres. Clinton's popularity and media savvy. Oh, and I sincerely doubt that the Republicans will be able to do [b]any[/b] 'restoration' work on the RKBA, so long as their hold on the House is so razor thin, and until such time as the GOP wins back the Senate. [b]So how do YOU figure in any of this?[/b] Eric The(InerrantOne)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 7:52:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: My earlier request still holds... name one freedom Republicans have restored without causing greater damage at the same time. Welfare Reform. Unless you want to give Klinton credit for that. Didn't restore a single freedom to me, and if you really study the detials the whole welfare reform thing is a farce. Sure, it moved a few off welfare... and right into other govt. programs. I am still waiting for a freedom to be named. Please name one thing ever done by the Libertarians to restore freedom--so far just decades of talk. I know, you shall rise and restore freedom all around. Ain't gonna happen in our lifetime. Maybe, maybe not. But I can name numerous freedoms that have fallen to Republican legislation... can you name any that have fallen to libertarians? You really need to understand how the legislative process in this country works. Things like a filibuster in the Senate which stops anything dead w/o a 2/3rd vote. Big things cannot happen--good or bad--by the nature of our system. Funny, the Democrats seem to get plenty of what they want accomplished Repubs cannot just wave a magic wand and fix crap the DemocRATs took 60+ yrs. to inflict upon us, especially with a media machine to demonize the littlest steps in the right direction. You will grow old and die and still be waiting for the LP to save you. Indeed, I may. But you may grow old and die waiting for the Republicans to actually [b]Do Something[/b]. Many folks have already. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:00:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: ROTFLMAO, as well, Garand Shooter! More tough talk of what they WILL do, but still no track record. Can you name me one gun law that has [b]passed[/b] since the Republicans took over Congress in January, 1995? I'd say that was one hell of a track record considering Pres. Clinton's popularity and media savvy. Oh, and I sincerely doubt that the Republicans will be able to do [b]any[/b] 'restoration' work on the RKBA, so long as their hold on the House is so razor thin, and until such time as the GOP wins back the Senate. [b]So how do YOU figure in any of this?[/b] Eric The(InerrantOne)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:05:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I can name numerous freedoms that have fallen to Republican legislation... can you name any that have fallen to libertarians? I can't even name ANY Libertarians in Congress. [:D] Are there any???? Garand Shooter - What you don't want to admit is that if ALL the Republicans were replaced with Libertarians, there would be NO CHANGE from what is going on right now in D.C. The truth is, while you WANT to believe that Libertarians are the answer, we BOTH know they are not. Constitutional removal of the current gov't is the ONLY solution. In the end, we ALL need to do what we are convinced is the right thing to do, namely who we vote for and why. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:10:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Consider me the squeaky wheel that is not satisfied with just promises of oil. Good one!! I like that. It's a shame that not everyone realizes that the repubs promise oil while quietly administering salt water instead. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:10:44 AM EDT
[#6]
GS, you seem to come at this with the idea that we LIKE what the Repubs are doing/have done--guess what--we [b]don't[/b]. They are just the best chance to affect change. The LP is a complete waste of time, as opposed to a 70% waste of time. I can't see pissing in the wind with the LP's while spending my $ and time for NOTHING. With that, we will have to agree to disagree and promise to never argue about abortion. [:D]
At least if there is a SHTF, I can assume we will be on the same side? I hope so, you sound like a better ally than enemy--hardheaded as hell. That's a compliment where I come from. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:13:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Post from Garand Shooter -
They had a shot when they had total control and were too busy trying to buy votes with a farce of a "tax cut" that sunsets in 10 years and has some provisions that don't even come into effect for 6,7,8 or 9 years(the estate tax cut come into effect for 1 year then sunsets). When in the last 40 years have the Republicans had total control? They didn't wrest control of the House until 1995, didn't get the White House until this year, lost control of the Senate after Easter break, so are you talking about the three months between Jan. and May of this year? And you expected them to do what in the short period of time where they had 'total control?' Nevermind. Eric The(No,Seriously,Nevermind)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:15:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Garand Shooter - The truth is, while you WANT to believe that Libertarians are the answer, we BOTH know they are not. Constitutional removal of the current gov't is the ONLY solution. True.... but the LP is the only party that has called for this to happen... In the end, we ALL need to do what we are convinced is the right thing to do, namely who we vote for and why. Very true |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:18:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: GS, you seem to come at this with the idea that we LIKE what the Repubs are doing/have done--guess what--we [b]don't[/b]. They are just the best chance to affect change. The LP is a complete waste of time, as opposed to a 70% waste of time. I can't see pissing in the wind with the LP's while spending my $ and time for NOTHING. With that, we will have to agree to disagree and promise to never argue about abortion. [:D] At least if there is a SHTF, I can assume we will be on the same side? I hope so, you sound like a better ally than enemy--hardheaded as hell. That's a compliment where I come from. I am not saying that you guys like what they are doing, but some here seem to think they walk on water and do no wrong... just fighting that fallacy. Rest assured if the S ever does HTF our rounds will fly in the same direction... and thanks for the compliment! |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:20:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: GS,...With that, we will have to agree to disagree and promise to never argue about abortion. [:D] Well I'm not GS but and I don't speak for him or know his position on abortion but I am one Libertarian that is pro-life. IMHO that child has the same civil liberties as everyone else in this country. Not every Libertarian is pro-choice. In fact I know more pro-life Libertarians than pro-choice. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:26:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: And you expected them to do what in the short period of time where they had 'total control?' Nevermind. Eric The(No,Seriously,Nevermind)Hun[>]:)] Something.. anything... throw us a freaking bone..... Other than Ron Paul (the undercover lib) I haven't even seen a legislation [b]PROPOSED[b]. And you see how far they take his ideas. Funny, they didn't even send legislation foward to force Clinton to veto it to show his true colors to those union goon gun owners... such a tactic may have helped them in this last election. They had 3 months and couldn't even keep control, much less get anything done. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:31:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Pardon me, Garand Shooter, but I only think that the Lord walks on water.
The rest of us mortals are compelled to deal with other mortals, much to our chagrin. Is the Republican Party the way I want it to be? Not by a longshot! [b]But it's the only game in town and you have to be at the table in order to win.[/b] And insofar as throwing legislation at Clinton to force him to veto it, I think the GOP did a great job in sending Welfare Reform back to Clinton for a 3rd time, after 2 previous vetoes, and Partial Birth Abortion Ban back to him after two previous vetoes, which he vetoed! It won Bush the Catholic Vote in 2000![:D] We're not all as smart as you are, so give us some time to learn. Eric The(AndGeorgeW.Wasn'tEvenMyFirstChoice!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:38:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: [b]But it's the only game in town and you have to be at the table in order to win.[/b] Eric The(AndGeorgeW.Wasn'tEvenMyFirstChoice)Hun[>]:)] True...but they have been sitting at the table gambling with my freedoms, and they keep losing them. Makes me think maybe its time for a new dealer. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:46:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: GS,...With that, we will have to agree to disagree and promise to never argue about abortion. [:D] Well I'm not GS but and I don't speak for him or know his position on abortion but I am one Libertarian that is pro-life. IMHO that child has the same civil liberties as everyone else in this country. Not every Libertarian is pro-choice. In fact I know more pro-life Libertarians than pro-choice. That was tongue-in-cheek. Abortion is not something I lose sleep over. I agree completely with you on this, but, as I said, I won't be bombing any abortion clinics. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:50:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Abortion and unlimited immigration are two subjects I do lose a lot of sleep over, and the stance of the Libertarian Party on both issues are simply two more good arguments for me not to vote with them.
As a matter of fact, I think that if the GOP actually agreed with those two stances, I would be the one looking for a new party! Le'see now what is the Constitutional Party? Eric The(WhatWouldTheLordDo?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:52:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Actually, as a personal policy I don't debate abortion with anyone.
Why? Bacause nothing I say is gonna change their mind, and nothing they say will change mine. There are more productive things to debate than one where evryone has pretty much chosen sides and is not gonna change. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 8:56:43 AM EDT
[#17]
I live in Missouri and was happy to see that G.W. had the balls to appoint Ashcroft in the first place, as he will work to repeal the ban laws. If you didn't watch his conformation hearings then you missed it. He is the former Gov. of my state and friend of my father, so I know that his stand is on gun control is the same as his view on Abortion. Greatly opposed! And if asked, he's not afraid to afirm it.
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Posted: 7/31/2001 9:11:37 AM EDT
[#18]
Answer: Donate money, time, and support to the Libertarians so they can re-educate the public and position themselves to either get meaningful numbers of candidates elected to important offices, or become a real influence group in the Republican party.
Give your vote to the candidates who will do the least damage in the meantime, hopefully ones who will improve the situation. It's a long-term strategy; we're fighting a holding action till we can outflank the enemy. One thing's for sure, we'll all hang separately unless we all hang together. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 9:58:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Sorry, raf, but I truly fear we can't spare the time and money to educate, etc., etc.
Our House is on fire and if the Republicans are unsuccessful in putting the kabosh on the AW ban that's set to expire in Sept. 2004, it will NEVER expire and the fire will never be put out. But to hang together is somehow taxing our abilities. There are 50,000,000 Americans who voted Republican in 2000, and less than 500,000 who voted Libertarian. Yet, the Libertarians say to the Republicans - 'Come on Over.' I'm not certain we'll win, but I damn sure know the Libertarians will never win! The Green Party will get there before they do. Eric The(Anxious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:07:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Not being sarcastic, but your plan is?
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:13:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: But to hang together is somehow taxing our abilities. There are 50,000,000 Americans who voted Republican in 2000, and less than 500,000 who voted Libertarian. Yet, the Libertarians say to the Republicans - 'Come on Over.' Not so much "come on over" as "do what you promise too"... is that too much to ask? And 500,000 votes would make a differance to the Republicans... sure would have made things easier in the last election. I'm not certain we'll win, but I damn sure know the Libertarians will never win! The Green Party will get there before they do. We can't afford many more Republican-style victories! Eric The(Anxious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:13:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Weiseguy: "Now I'm now politician, but it seems clear from observing those that are, that running around taking firm stands on controversial issues is not one of the better strategies."
Nonsense. When have you seen a Democrat ever not take a firm stand on an issue. It does not pay to go down this path of spineless moderatism. That is why the Republicans lost control of the senate. They did not stand up for what they believed in and they tried to go down this "by-partisan" approach. Newt Gingrich and the Repubs took control of Congress in 1994 because of their tough stances on the issues. However, they backed off and yielded to Clinton and the Dems. Bob Dole, another neocon, didn't help them either. Point is, backing off from your beliefs or issues will not help anyone in the long run. The Democrats do not yield from their beliefs of state worship and socialism, so why should the Republicans? You cannot have it both ways in the REAL WORLD. themao [chainsawkill] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:16:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Can you name me one gun law that has [b]passed[/b] since the Republicans took over Congress in January, 1995? I'd say that was one hell of a track record considering Pres. Clinton's popularity and media savvy. Eric The(InerrantOne)Hun[>]:)] That quote is part of the big problem... Republicans seem to be proud of just doing nothing. Of course, you have to find [b]something[/b] to be proud of I guess. If you think doing nothing is one hell of a track record I can understand why you vote like you do. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:44:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Post from Garand Shooter -
If you think doing nothing is one hell of a track record I can understand why you vote like you do. And if you're so intent on not even being invited to the track meet, I can understand why you vote like you do.[:D] BTW, who DID you vote for in 1980 and 19884? Eric The(NotLikeI'mGonnaLoseSleepOverThat!)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:56:58 AM EDT
[#25]
To EricTheHun and Garand Shooter: You two are so busy arguing philosophical and political esoterica that you've failed to notice our common enemies laughing at our disunity.
Not a flame, but this reminds me of intense discussions about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin while Byzantium was under siege. You're both intelligent and pro-RKBA. Agree to disagree and focus on your (our) common points. Rant off. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 10:58:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: BTW, who DID you vote for in 1980 and 19884? Eric The(NotLikeI'mGonnaLoseSleepOverThat!)Hun[>]:)] Actually, I wasn't old enough to vote then, but most likely I would have voted for Reagan. My first vote cast for a president was for Bush Sr, and he thanked me with a SUR import ban. Then I started paying attention..... |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 11:26:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Post from raf -
Not being sarcastic, but your plan is? Assuming you're asking ME what my plan is, then it's very simple as far as I'm concerned. [size=5][b]VOTE REPUBLICAN![/b][/size=5] I was about to post a lengthy response and a little detail about what I believe we should do, but I suddenly remembered: OUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE! You've read the posts, the reponses, from the sublime to the ridiculous! Shouldn't be too difficult a decision to make. If you're part of the guys who put out the fire and save our house, well then, 'much obliged.' If you're not, well, it really won't be much of an issue anymore, now, will it? Eric The(Fireman,Hopefully)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 11:40:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Well, EricTheHun, Firefighters first contain the fire, then move on to extinguishing it. Thus the answer I posted earlier. I agree on tactics, if not on overall strategy.
Hopefully, the Libertarian Party, which is currently in upheaval due to LP candidate Brown's financial practices will get their house in order and become a viable political party. Right now, the LP isn't a player and shows no sign of becoming one soon, more's the pity. I'll still toss them some money from time to time, and support their educational efforts. It may be a waste right now, but at least I'm making the decision, not the Liberals. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 11:45:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: My first vote cast for a president was for Bush Sr, and he thanked me with a SUR import ban. Then I started paying attention..... Garand Shooter - I can understand that you would be pissed about Bush, Sr. I am too. For his comments on Dec. 7, 1991. For alot of reasons. But mostly because Bush Sr was no Republican. For all intents and purposes, he was a practical Communist. he was a one-world gov't guy. He just wanted to see LESS people killed in accomplishing it. From where I'm standing, Shrub ain't his daddy. And for what I've seen so far, I can mildly support him. More than I can the NON-EXISTENT Libertarian Saviours of mankind. (sorry - that was OVERLY flamey) But my support for him is presently a day-by-day thing. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 12:07:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: My first vote cast for a president was for Bush Sr, and he thanked me with a SUR import ban. Then I started paying attention..... Garand Shooter - I can understand that you would be pissed about Bush, Sr. I am too. For his comments on Dec. 7, 1991. For alot of reasons. Not just pissed at him, but the whole party that backed him and put him into place to do that...and then after he did it [b]continued[/b] to support him. But mostly because Bush Sr was no Republican. For all intents and purposes, he was a practical Communist. he was a one-world gov't guy. He just wanted to see LESS people killed in accomplishing it. From where I'm standing, Shrub ain't his daddy. And for what I've seen so far, I can mildly support him. More than I can the NON-EXISTENT Libertarian Saviours of mankind. (sorry - that was OVERLY flamey) But my support for him is presently a day-by-day thing. I have said before if I start seeing results he will get my support, but it takes results to convince me. If he is going to do half of what those here say he will, he will get my support. But given the Republican parties track record, I'm not gonna go buy my elephant tie-tac yet. BTW, having met you, you don't seem to be [i][pink]overly flamey[/i][/pink] in person..... |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 12:15:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: BTW, having met you, you don't seem to be [i][pink]overly flamey[/i][/pink] in person..... Not THAT kind of "flamey".... [:D] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 1:59:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: You would have felt better with Gore in the White House? A vote taken away from Bush was a vote for Gore. Just like a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush. Gore would have signed an CA SB23 type law in a heartbeat. You don't see that on Bush's list. You also don't see a promise to renew the 1994 ban. The 'current' ban expires in 2004. a Libertarian vote shows the Republicans that they better watch out in the elections or they could loose constituents if they dont stick with the constitution. a vote on principle is never a wasted vote. sweating Republicrats is a good thing. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:12:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Libertarian, the number of hard-core Libertarian voters is so small as to not matter to the major parties. Votes are more easily obtained and at less cost than by catering to small, fringe groups, and possibly alienating the major party base.
IMHO the libertarians could be more effective if they, as a coherent group were inside the Republican tent pissing out, rather than outside pissing their vote away. NOT a flame. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:20:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Libertarian, the number of hard-core Libertarian voters is so small as to not matter to the major parties. Votes are more easily obtained and at less cost than by catering to small, fringe groups, and possibly alienating the major party base. IMHO the libertarians could be more effective if they, as a coherent group were inside the Republican tent pissing out, rather than outside pissing their vote away. NOT a flame. Right, not a flame--just a damned good point. And I was done with this topic--dang you, raf, stop it!! Stop making me do it. LOL |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:23:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Libertarian, the number of hard-core Libertarian voters is so small as to not matter to the major parties. Votes are more easily obtained and at less cost than by catering to small, fringe groups, and possibly alienating the major party base. IMHO the libertarians could be more effective if they, as a coherent group were inside the Republican tent pissing out, rather than outside pissing their vote away. NOT a flame. The point is not a party. i say screw all polictical parties. im more interested in poliitcal philosophies. if the Republicrats would let in a libertarian (or even a real Republican) political philospophy, then i would move into their tent and piss with them. the Republicrats do not accept a libertarian philospohy. this means that i can not join them. this may lead to disunity, but who disunited who here? the Republicans dont even support a constitutional Republic!!! they support a Democracy. if i am to be blamed for dividing us, then why cant the Republicrats be blamed for the same thing? besides if the libertarian party grows, how long will it stay a fringe group? every thing starts out small. what is more important is for libertarian (or true Republican) ideals to grow. i do not believe that such a polictial philosophy will ever grow within side the Republican camp. therefore is has no choice, but to grow outside and spread. a former Republican lib |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:25:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Sorry, Thebeekeper1! [;)]
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:33:02 PM EDT
[#37]
libertarian, the political deck is (INTENTIONALLY) stacked very much against third-parties. Please let us know when the growth of the Libertarian party exceeds the growth of the general population.
I appreciate and sympathize with your purist attitude. However, that attitude, common among Libertarians, serves to relegate the LP to the status of a never-ending debating society, not a political force to be reckoned with. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:33:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I agree that Bush is the lesser of two evils, but is that good? Everyone accuses the democrats of boiling the frog slowly, but I think there the ones that throw it in the boiling water and it jumps out! It's my opinion that the republicans are the ones that will boil the frog slowly. Just my opinion. I had the same opinion. Then I lived through 8 years of the Clinton administration, and realized I was wrong. Where were you in the last 8 years? |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:49:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: All I can say is it's our fault we only have two choices. We need more selection when it comes to picking our leaders. I for one wish like hell WE had a choice now. I'll get flamed but Ol Ross Perot was(is) a nut but he was all about changing our system. Crazy as he is I still like his ideas. Get our government back from Washington. Huh? Perot wanted "campaign finance reform" (ie, lets make it impossable for grassroots citizens orgs to get their message accross, and let's make sure we protect the incumbants). He can yelp all he wants about "getting our government back from Washington", but his policies would achieve the exact oppisite. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 2:55:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: ROTFLMAO!!! More tough talk of what they [b]WILL[/b] do, but still no track record. My earlier request still holds... name one freedom Republicans have restored without causing greater damage at the same time. They reformed GCA '68, so now we can buy ammo and components via mail order. And yes, the compromise was the ban on machine guns, but I for one think it was worth it. Ammo is more important than machine guns, and besides, the machine gun ban is more blatently unconstitutional, meaning we have a better chance of defeating it in court. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 3:11:44 PM EDT
[#41]
I am a libertarian who is registered Republican. However, I vote Libertarian or Republican depending upon the race and the candidates.
Here is how I voted for president: 1980 Republican 1984 Republican 1988 Republican 1992 Libertarian 1996 Libertarian 2000 Republican I see the value of the Libertarian Party, in that it maintains a more consistent ideological base than the Republican Party. The Republicans are more able to achieve their goals, even if those goals are watered down. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 3:20:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: ROTFLMAO!!! More tough talk of what they [b]WILL[/b] do, but still no track record. My earlier request still holds... name one freedom Republicans have restored without causing greater damage at the same time. They reformed GCA '68, so now we can buy ammo and components via mail order. And yes, the compromise was the ban on machine guns, but I for one think it was worth it. Ammo is more important than machine guns, and besides, the machine gun ban is more blatently unconstitutional, meaning we have a better chance of defeating it in court. Exactly.. they couldn't even do that without screwing over those of us who like FA, and thanks to them we have to pay 10x a firearms real value since the supply is fixed. As far as it being unconstitutional, sure, it is... but the fact that they supported it says alot too. You could buy just as much ammo before the ban as you can now, they just made it a little less difficult. But a far to great a cost IMHO. I would gladly not mail order ammo if I could buy a MP-5SD for $1100 or a sten for $300... but this isn't supposed to be about trading one right for another. The challenge still stands.. name one freedom Republicans have restored without damaging another in the proccess... heck, give me something even non-firearms related, give me any example. Anything.... |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 3:33:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Exactly.. they couldn't even do that without screwing over those of us who like FA, and thanks to them we have to pay 10x a firearms real value since the supply is fixed. As far as it being unconstitutional, sure, it is... but the fact that they supported it says alot too. I was not politically active in 1986, but I learned here (ain't this place GREAT for info.!) that the NFA changes were snuck in after all the negotiating was supposedly over, by the DemocRATs, of course. It was not encouraged, or even agreed to, by the Repubs. The attempt was honest by them, but they lost on a typical underhanded maneuver by the DemocRATs. [:(] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 3:53:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Ammo is more important than machine guns, I'm not willing to trade one right for another. Quoted: ...and besides, the machine gun ban is more blatently unconstitutional, meaning we have a better chance of defeating it in court. Congress [b]amended[/b] it '86. It was first written in '34ish(?). In all those years, how many times was the constitutionality of the NFA act with regards to the 2nd Amendment argued in court? If we have such a great chance at beating it, why haven't we done it yet. A friend of mine said that people won't allow themselves to be enslaved by a political group that starts with the letter D, but are oblivious to enslavement of the same kind from the political group that starts with the letter R. I belive he hit the nail on the head. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 4:28:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Ok lets look ata what we have here: #1 we have some people that seem to think Bush is not a right wing guy after all.
#2 we have a bunch of these guys that try to tell us that the gov. is all bad and we need to stop them. #3 we have this 3rd party crap again. So, I say to you as some have said if Bush is anti-gun then why are the anti-guners mad at him????????????? There are a lot of people that need to think every thing is bad and out to get us and only they know it......HA The thing you guys like that just don't get is that the Rep. party is not in DC I am the rep party and so is some others in here, it will take more guts to take back the party we made that it will to run. but if you want to run ........see you! Just think about this for a min.,the left wing divide and conquer methods most work pretty good if conservatives fight like this about the same things. I bet they don't have to deal with this crap. Do you think a guy with a name like A2CAR is anti-gun? Trust me we are on the same pager here, I just want to use to weapons I have now. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 4:35:54 PM EDT
[#46]
WAIT JUST A MINUTE!!!
I did not read ever thing in this one is if some one has said this .....GOOD I think THEMAO may just be a anit-gun lefty[:O] Don't you think a leftyt would think it funny to come in here and start crap like this? Don't know for shore but may be[;)] |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 4:42:45 PM EDT
[#47]
"Supports ban on importation of high-capacity ammunition clips: Include imported high-capacity ammunition clips to current ban. Governor Bush supports extending the current ban on high-capacity ammunition clips to include those imported from foreign countries. "
First of all when did any polittian ever get elected that did not BS people in order to get elected. I was just thinking maybe George wants to stop the importation of Magazines becuase he feels that it was taking jobs away from Americans. Why have foreign countries make these magazines and ship them here. Americans can make Better high caps and it would help save American jobs. Six |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 4:55:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Point is that the mags have to have been made PRIOR to the mag ban to be importable at all.
So, imported or domestic hi-caps have been around for years (supposedly). No current jobs at stake here at all. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 4:59:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I was just thinking maybe George wants to stop the importation of Magazines becuase he feels that it was taking jobs away from Americans. Why have foreign countries make these magazines and ship them here. Americans can make Better high caps and it would help save American jobs. Six Have you heard that GW supports NAFTA, GATT, & the WTO? He might want to stop importation of mags, but I'll guess that it isn't for the reasons you stated. |
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Posted: 7/31/2001 5:29:16 PM EDT
[#50]
You'd be surprised how influential libertarians are at all levels of government. While not holding many political offices, they offer a great deal of wise and well-reasoned advice in the form of "friends of the court" briefings, Congressional testimony, and grassroots support for things like free markets and smaller government. A few hundred libertarian-minded activists protested possible tax increases outside the state legislature here today--I think the legislators got the message loud and clear. In Tennessee, libertarians (among others) successfully held off the imposition of a state income tax.
The bottom line is that many people are libertarian-minded but they don't even know it or know that there is a single, consistent ideology because much of what libertarians stand for is just rational, common sense (not to be confused with the "common sense" gun laws advocated by the left). Another thing you are all missing is this: Fighting gun control is a losing battle. Instead, we need to go after the big budgets raised through taxation and shrink government at all levels--in essense, take out its fangs. We pay for our enslavement. Fighting gun control is only putting band-aids on the problem and may buy us time, but in the end, the opposition will win. I was reminded of how far down the road to fascism we are today after my girlfriend complained of being stopped at a "Driver's license checkpoint" set up by our local sheriffs on a back road. They actually made her produce her license and show that it was valid. I'm sure they also looked for anything they could cite her for--busted taillight, out of date registration or inspection, etc. We may be holding off the gun grabbers, but meanwhile, the freedom grabbers are undermining us. |
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