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Posted: 2/19/2001 11:42:22 AM EST
Howdy, I've been flipping through FM 7-8 and the handfull of Marine Battle Skills books I have, but haven't found the answer. Is there a *minimum* or required loadout y'all put together for a run-of-the mill patrol? I'd imagine that an offensive and defensive patrol would be different, but is there a source for a basic packing requirement? Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 1:42:00 PM EST
Whatcha gonna patrol? How long ya gonna be gone? How far are you going from your supply base? Probability of running into bad guys? What is the expected armament of said "bad guys". What are the expected weather conditions? Those are just a few of the variables that I would consider when assembling my loadout. Answer these and we can go from there.[flag]
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 3:51:32 PM EST
Alright, as best I can. . . Fair weather, offensive/ambush patrol. Platoon size, expecting similar numbers of OPFOR on a 3 day hump. For the sake of argument, let's say it's a 25 - 30 klick hump/per day, and on ETD, you ain't getting back to base until you walk the "big circle". Something general, here. I know there's a lot of mix-and-match to mission. I just figured there was a standard 'take this checklist' for a simple rifleman. Thanks! Tripler
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 5:01:43 PM EST
not to be nit picky but do you really mean platoon size? That would be roughly 40 persons. Squad is ~12, and a fire team is usually 4. Are you planning on having specified LMG types and snipers, etc or ? Makes a difference on your loadout as far as ammo and equip.
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 5:14:17 PM EST
Whoa. . . 40 people, oh yeah. I always assumed basic "sweep and clears" were platoon sized. My ignorance shows. . . Let me ask the question then, how big is a typical offensive/ambush patrol? *Is* there a typical size, or *is* there a typical patrol? Maybe I'm just a bit too broad here. . . Trip
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 5:14:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 5:53:17 PM EST
"Is there a *minimum* or required loadout y'all put together for a run-of-the mill patrol?" There is no such thing as a run-of-the-mill patrol. And the day you think there is, is the day you won't be prepared. Get your clues from your op order.
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 5:57:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/19/2001 6:58:06 PM EST
That's the point of my first question about situation specificity. There is no run of the mill patrol, just like in the LE community there is no such thing as a routine traffic stop, those are the one that get ou killed. In planning your squads needs you need have a definate operational objective. Are you going in to recon an area? You say "sweep and clear". If you mean to be actively assaulting enemy positions you need more than you can effectively carry in a squad/ fire team configuration and will need to stage supplies in a forward position where it can be easily obtained when you exhaust your carried supplies. This makes your team lighter in the battlefield and makes you ultimately able to be more effective in the field. In stashing your goods you would also need to booby trap them so that if the VC did happen to find them they got a surprise. Combat load for each man: I prefer 13 loaded 30 rd mags 1 in rifle & 4 pouches. if less mags then carry a couple of bandoleers. 1 or 2 bandoleers each man for LMG. 4 or 6 grenades or whatever can be distributed for the team, LMG asst gunner carries spare barrel and tool kit. Each man carries extra m203 grenades for grenadier. Each man, 2 canteens if available & depending on duration. Each carries a poncho/ shelter half, helmet, flak vest if available, first aid, MRE's for 2 meals/ day. + misc stuff, gas mask, decon kit, change of socks & drawers ( you can get pretty funky humpin those hills) toothpaste & brush, soap & small towell. This list can vary greatly depending on the weather and mission but the ammo and gear would stay pretty much the same. You may ad claymores for perimeter security/ defense, satchels for demo, law for tanks and things, night vision, high power rifle & equipment for sniping, etc, etc, etc. my 2c.[beer] plus
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 3:06:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By 8531sgt: ...& drawers ( you can get pretty funky humpin those hills
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Drawers? You ARE kidding, right? They are an absolutely unnecessary and impractical garment in most field environments. They will definitely get funky - so just don't wear 'em. White
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 3:21:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 5:22:09 AM EST
Talking underwear drawers ( skivvies), not necessarily long johns but maybe those too if it's gonna be chilly. Like momma always said, don't leave home without clean ones on. Well it's nice to have a spare pair when you're in the field. Without ain't a good idea. Get crotch rot that way from nothing to absorbe perspiration.
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 5:33:19 AM EST
tisk... tisk.... tisk... You guys are forgetting the most important thing..... GOLD BOND FOR YOUR D*CK!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 1:55:41 PM EST
8531sgt-after humping the boonies in some bad jungle, I found that wearing drawers increased my chances of crotch rot. They held the moisture in, and rubbed everything until it became a raw and oozing mess. VERY painful! After about 2 klicks, I cut them off during a rest. I also did the same with the sleeves on my undershirts for the same reason. Ran the bush that way for 2 yrs, and never had a problem, except for prickly heat. As far as the original topic, I always carried on me 10 loaded mags, 2 1qt canteens, field dressing, bug juice, camo stick, 1 MRE, MRE heater or camp stove, 2 pr socks, and compass. In my ruck I had 5 pr socks, 1 BDU pants, 5 t-shirts, 2 MRE per day, 1 2qt canteen, 1 5qt canteen, 2 ponchoes, 1 poncho liner, any commo gear I was given, e-tool, machette, wet weather top and bottom, a very small hammock, 4 tent pegs, and any other mission essential equipment per my op ord. If it were winter time, add poly pro top and bottom, sleep shirt, sleeping bag, puss pad, field jacket and liner, extra pair of boots and an extra BDU top. HTH
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 3:28:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/20/2001 3:46:19 PM EST by 8531sgt]
Been there, done that but always found that wearing properly fitting shorts under was preferable to going commando. Especially when the weather is cooler, but even at that I and others I know found that seams on your ut's chafed more than wearing shorts and you keep "things" in place better that way thus perventing things from getting sore from rubbing where they shouldn't. But to each his own and if you like it that way then by all means go for it. Most of the men in my unit though must not have known better I guess. Nice to see you had MRE's w/heaters and 2 & 5 qt canteens. We were still using canned C-rats and 1 qt canteens. Different era's I guess. [beer]
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 5:55:10 PM EST
I think I've gleaned enough to figure out things. I'm active duty AF Combat Engineer, and they're not too specific on what I *might* want to bring. Yeah the checklists help, but since I'll be hanging with Marines, I don't want to be the guy with crotchrot. I figured a few old-timers who'd 'been there-done that' would be able to help. Thanks again. Much obliged y'all! Trip
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 6:24:31 PM EST
forgot to mention talcum powder (baby powder) Foots and other parts, really helps keep the chafing down. Enjoy your time with my brothers, keep yer head down & eyes open, watch what they do and follow their lead, you'll do fine. [beer] buy 'em one for me.
Link Posted: 2/20/2001 8:50:24 PM EST
I know its a little off topic, but on my first road march I was wearing Army issue brown boxers I started to get that bad feeling in my private parts no pun intended. I proceeded to whip out my bayonet grabbed my undearwear from the left hip area. I cut the underwear down one inseam. grabbed the other side and cut the other inseam. I tore out the underwear on Angel Road near Son DZ at Ft. Campbell.I threw the offending garment off the road and never looked back. I never wore underwear in the field again.You will pay to the Crotch Rot Demon if you leave your undies on. Go commando! NO SLACK!
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 2:37:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Matt Daugherty: I know its a little off topic...
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Actually, I am getting the impression that we are getting actually closer to the topic our original poster intended. I, like many apparently, was thinking like a planner. What I mean is, people talked about how there was no one answer, mission dependent, DOTS, METT-T, etc. We were all thinking primarily along the lines of weaponry, commo equipment, food and so forth. Personal gear was an afterthought. I think what our AF buddy wants to know is what to pack to go play in the field with the Marines. You know, the kind of things that will never be on a unit packing list but WE ALL carry - often because we learned the hard way. Everyone has their own little quirks - things they would not want to do without - I think perhaps he wants suggestions. Tripler: am I on track here? Anyway, you will want to know how much you will be moving. You must find the right medium between hooah and heavy. This would definitely effect how many uniforms, socks, whether you pack extra boots, etc. Cold weather adds a whole new can of worms - form snivel gear to frozen shaving cream - maybe someone else will go into detail here. I will simply say this: If you are going to move, you want to be cold when you start! PLEASE don't bundle up before a big movement - you will overheat, sweat, and all your snivel gear will be wet, Then, when you do stop, you will start to get REALLY cold and have nothing dry to put on! OK, enough of that soapbox! Someone already mentioned Goldbond (the powder, not the lotion)- DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT! Other things you may not have thought of include vaseline (in case you start getting an uncomfortable rubbing), duct tape (that green 100 mph stuff has more uses than mph), wet-wipes, a good pocket knife, well - I'm sure many more people here have things to add. Remember, you will have to carry everything. If you really are going on a "patrol" and not just to "the field" you will be doing a lot of humping. Add on top of your personal items the weight and bulk of ammo, weapon, claymore, radio, or other such pain and you will see why many long range patrolling vets may even scoff at the idea of more than one change of socks. Oh yeah, check out what your medic (corpsman?) is carrying - no point in redundantly carrying stuff like moleskin, etc. if he's got a stash already. Also, if you are really gonna be living ugly for a while, get a good 30 day haircut. Excuse me if I have rambled - I am not paid for my English skills. White
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 9:42:29 AM EST
See matt there's your problem, boxers. Not good for alot of walking. Adam's got some good points that I was eluding to. Sounds like some here haven't really been "in country" although I may be wrong. Tripler, you'll not want to forget the sunscreen of some kind and the vaseline really helps for the rashes. Throw in some neosporin or similar too. Chapstick, nailclippers, extra boot laces. Are you potentially facing bad guys or just wanting to be field ready? Actual combat comditions will dictate a few different things. Don't forget the "gold bond".....
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 10:24:56 AM EST
1. as to the original question, for a good start check out the B-720 patrol tips at http://www.sirius.com/~hanson/b_720.html 2. as to the undershorts/crotch rot issue, remember that perhaps the chief culprit is not the underwear itself but the cotton from which most are made. Once wet, cotton becomes quite abrasive to the skin. And it won't dry out while in the field. Thus it retains the moisture and bacteria that will rot you out. Try using undershorts made from a modern synthetic material from manufacturers like Patagonia, The North Face, Duofold, and many others. I am not nor have ever been a soldier. But I have spent 15 years backpacking and rockclimbing for days on end in environments from ranging from desert heat to Southeastern USA humidity. Many of these excursions went on for over a week without bathing, all the while humping a load, scaling cliffs, or both. Thin synthetic shorts will wick the sweat off you skin, will not abrade you, and will dry in a flash. I'm sure you Sgt. Rock types can find some in O.D. :)
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 12:32:43 PM EST
Tripler, Hi guy. I wore silk boxers and packed 3 to 5 per mission. When water and weather was not a problem I washed my dangler every other day and air dried(missions averaged one mre/day and all the water we could find, gotta luv those survival straws and hope your thyroid was OK). Wore my dress socks under the mean greens and never had a blister( a SCAMP buddy taught me that). I carried 196 rounds for my Spotter(28 rds/mag) and 9 rds mixed of WP/HE for his 203, since the M40A1 was kinda slow in a FF. ....and batteries for com...da-da-damn the weight and space they took up but you couldn't leave home without 'em. Line your pack with 2 (thick)lawn/refuse bags(cut down to FF quick access) and everything that needs to stay dry or sand free gets put into 2 freezer ziploc bags of proper size and those can be org'd into larger ziploc bags. Never "PACK" personal problems on a hump.
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 12:34:25 PM EST
One thing I did nforget to mention is TOILET PAPER!!!!! DO NOT leave home without it![flag]
Link Posted: 2/21/2001 1:44:05 PM EST
Just remember son... WALK SLOW AND DRINK A LOT OF WATER. you'll never have too much ammo, water and shit-paper
Link Posted: 2/22/2001 8:13:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Glock-A-Roo: 1. as to the original question, for a good start check out the B-720 patrol tips at http://www.sirius.com/~hanson/b_720.html
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Whoa! Big help on that site. I don't expect combat, but they are things to keep in mind. I'm a newbie, so please, brag away/keep 'em coming. I need all the help I can get, and am not ashamed to admit it. :D Tripler
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