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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 7/25/2001 11:47:08 PM EDT
This is convienent since we've had all this talk about them. I'm currently applying for my license. I'm moving to St. Louis, MO in a few days. In MO you have to have some sort of license to own C3, a C&R license is sufficient. So what can I do with this license? I'm not to into C&R guns right now. Does this license give me any privileges with non-C&R guns? Can I use this to get out of state guns (non-C&R) transferred to me? What does this do to transfers with C3 guns, both c&r and non-c&r? Secondly, what are the responsibilities that come with the licenses? I imagine I have to keep some sort of paperwork. Can or will BATF make visits, both plan and unplanned? Anything else I should know about?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 12:47:15 AM EDT
What is a C&R license?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 12:50:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Confederate: What is a C&R license?
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Curio and Relics. Basically a type of FFL for 'old' guns. I believe the standard is guns 50 years or older. But I NEED some sort of license to get C3 in MO, and a C&R is supposedly the easiest way to go.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 12:54:36 AM EDT
From what I understand, a C&R will permit you to have Class3 weapons transferred directly to you without having to go through a dealer IF the weapon is on the C&R list. For Class 3 weapons not on the C&R list you will still have to go through a dealer. This exhausts my knowledge of the subject. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 2:31:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 300ydClean: From what I understand, a C&R will permit you to have Class3 weapons transferred directly to you without having to go through a dealer IF the weapon is on the C&R list. For Class 3 weapons not on the C&R list you will still have to go through a dealer. This exhausts my knowledge of the subject. Chuck
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Makes sense to me, thanks for the feedback.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:02:35 AM EDT
[url]www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nlc/ffl/ffl_types.htm[/url] Go here and read up on what is a cruffler [url]www.cruffler.com[/url] The C&R license give you NO privileges with Non-C&R guns. Nadda. You must go through a 01 FFL dealer. Yes, you must keep track of every C&R gun you buy or sell. If you have a C&R gun BEFORE you have your license, then I believe you do not have to keep it in the bound book. If you let your license expire, then if you sell a C&R weapon you had in your bound book... you do not have to enter it into the book. I believe they can make one planned visit each year. Anything else: Yes. Send signed [b]COPIES[/b] of your FFL to every gun dealer around. Including Brownells where you can get a pretty big discount on many items. You will now be broke with no money left. Standard disclaimer. I know nothing, whatever I said could be wrong. Please check the above ATF website. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:31:56 AM EDT
7, Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.
Originally Posted By 7: You will now be broke with no money left. [:)]
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Heck, I'm already broke, now I'll be broke with more things I want to have! Forgive my ignorance on the topics, but what is the history behind the C&R license? I mean, why would one want to have their purchase on file for BATF? Or better question, what does a C&R license allow you to buy that you otherwise cannot? Sorry, I'm a C3 guy, so this is new stuff to me.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:38:16 AM EDT
Wait, I just went to the website you linked, and I think I answered my own question. So the main purpose of a c&r is to cut out the FFL middleman on interstate purchases of c&r guns. I am correct?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:42:15 AM EDT
It allows you to purchase C&R firearms directly from the supplier without having to go through a transfer through your local dealer. I recently got a Mauser Luger delivered right to my house from ralph shadducks world of lugers. This allows one to accelerate spending at a furious rate... nagants, enfields, broomhandles, m1s (both kinds) and on and on.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:44:01 AM EDT
Whoo hoo! I'm excited! And a bit scared...
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:20:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:24:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: However, while I'm no expert on C3 stuff, I don't think the C&R takes the place of NFA laws - you still need a separate Class 3 license of some sort, don't you? I thought the only priviledge the C&R bestowed was allowing you to own those guns on the C&R list. If you're allowed to own C3 on a C&R license, then I'm suddenly very excited to be living in MO!
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As I have been told (subguns.com, MO C3s, etc.) in order to have MGs, SBSs and SBRs in MO (besides the obligatory paperwork) you need to be some sort of FFL holder. Convienantly, a C&R FFL, is good enough.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:25:39 AM EDT
You do not need a class3 nor do you need to go through a class3 dealer to transfer a NFA weapon, IF it is on the C&R list. All other NFA weapons have to be transferred through a licensed dealer. ONLY NFA WEAPONS THAT ARE ON THE C&R LIST. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:31:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 300ydClean: You do not need a class3 nor do you need to go through a class3 dealer to transfer a NFA weapon, IF it is on the C&R list. All other NFA weapons have to be transferred through a licensed dealer. ONLY NFA WEAPONS THAT ARE ON THE C&R LIST. Chuck
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Right, I'm just explaining that in MO, to have ANY type of C3 (cr or not) you HAVE to have some sort of FFL. I don't understand it, but that's the way it is.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:34:08 AM EDT
Another question guys. Some states like Michigan allow no civilain C3 guns at all. Can I get one if I have a C and R license?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:35:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:44:56 AM EDT
Can anyone list a Class 3 weapon that is on the C&R list?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:45:02 AM EDT
Having a C&R license would not allow you to own an automatic weapon in a state that prohibits civilian ownership, regardless of the weapons status C&R or not. I wasn't throwing a fit HK, I was trying to be clear.Sorry if it came off as heavy handed. If you are in ANY state that allows civillian ownership of class3 weapons, you can have a full auto transferred directly to you on your C&R license if that weapon is on the C&R list. You would have to do the normal form4 for a transfer, but the C&R allows you to cut out the class3 dealer. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:54:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 300ydClean:I wasn't throwing a fit HK, I was trying to be clear.Sorry if it came off as heavy handed. Chuck
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No, no, not at all! It's just getting confusing here with everyone throwing out questions about individual states. I just wish H&Ks were older...[:(!]
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:55:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 5:54:02 AM EDT by 300ydClean]
Class3 weapons that are on the C&R list: MP-40 M3 Grease Gun Sten Gun Thompsons BAR And so on, the weapons eligibility depends on when it was manufactured. Chuck I pulled these out of my arse as I do not have the ATF book here with me at present, it all depends on when they were manufactured regardless.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:58:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ARDOC: Another question guys. Some states like Michigan allow no civilain C3 guns at all. Can I get one if I have a C and R license?
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Actually Michigan law allows civilians to own C&R machine guns and SBR, but only if they have a C&R license.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:02:26 AM EDT
There is also one hidden benefit of having a C&R license. Everyone now knows you can buy C&R firearms without having to go through a dealer. You don't need to conduct any paperwork except to send the dealer your FFL and to record it in your bound book. Here's where it get's good. The ATF has decided that a C&R license does not allow you to engage in the business of buying and selling firearms. Further, when your C&R license expires your bound book is not considered business records like a dealers bound book and you are not required to turn it over to the ATF. Which means all C&R firearms that you buy would not ever have a form 4473 filled out on them, even if you get rid of your C&R license.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 6:02:51 AM EDT
Unfortunately the closest that you will get to a C&R eligible HK will be a Kraut 34 or 42 or if you have the financial oomph, perhaps the venerable STG44. Chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 7:02:40 AM EDT
Where can I download this form off the internet? Thanks in advance
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 9:42:47 AM EDT
Alright just so I have this crystal clear. The BATF has clearly stated that a firearm DOES NOT need to be on the list to be concidered a C&R but it DOES need to be at least 50 years old. It states this right on the BATF website. BUT, what you are saying is that there is an exception for Class 3 weapons because they need to be listed? Also, how do you know if you live in a Class 3 friendly state? Is there a website I could check out?
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