Thoughts on .308 semi-auto

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on .308 semi-auto

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:09:35 AM EDT

Now that I have an AR-15, I'm thinking about getting a semi-auto .308. I've looked at Springfield Armory's website, and just a simple plain M1A is very appealing to me. I would just like to know what people here think would be a good higher-caliber accompaniment to my AR-15 would be.

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:14:08 AM EDT

[#1]

An HK91. Not a clone, but the real thing. The shoot great and are ultra reliable. You can't say the same about the majority of G3 clones. The one thing that sucks is how dinged up the brass gets. Most of it isn't even reloadable.

brouhaha

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:27:24 AM EDT

[#2]

The M1A is very good, mags are expensive though. Excellent sights. Very accurate, and can be improved upon as the budget allows. Can be kind of expensive. But worth it.

The FAL is the same caliber, mags are cheap, not as accurate though, but can be improved upon also. Sights are okay. Avoid cheap versions if you can afford it. DSA is one manufacturer with a good rep. Lots of custom builders for these rifles out there.

The AR10 is supposed to be very accurate, some say potentially more accurate than the M1A. Looks like a super sized AR15. Very expensive mags though. Have heard about problems with the mags not feeding properly.

I don't know anything about the HK models in .308, or the CETME. I'm sure someone here does though.

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:30:53 AM EDT

[#3]

Maybe you should get an M2.

Or an M82A1 Barrett.

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:35:46 AM EDT

[#4]

Save your money. Get an M1 Garand from [url]www.odcmp.com[/url]. Have Champion's choice install a new, med. wt. match Douglas bbl. for $200. Buy lots of clips. Enjoy.

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:55:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
An HK91. Not a clone, but the real thing. The shoot great and are ultra reliable. You can't say the same about the majority of G3 clones. The one thing that sucks is how dinged up the brass gets. Most of it isn't even reloadable.

brouhaha

View Quote

I have a shell deflector (port buffer in HK lingo) on my HK-91 and the brass is not dented at all.

[url]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=258760&a=10577068&p=46196521[/url]
[url]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=258760&a=10577068&p=46196520[/url]

Posted: 7/25/2001 10:59:29 AM EDT

[#6]

I have a port buffer as well. About half of the brass still gets dented from ejection. I've heard never to reload it anyway because of the damage the fluting causes...not sure how true that is. It's ok since I only use surplus anyway. That's a nice looking rifle. I bet it weighs a ton with that PSG1 stock on it. As soon as my Hensoldt gets here from AIM I think I'm gonna buy a MSG-90 stock for mine.

brouhaha

Posted: 7/25/2001 11:21:03 AM EDT

[#7]

What exactly is a FAL? and how much do these guns usually go for, especially an HK91 (real thing)?

Posted: 7/25/2001 12:00:40 PM EDT

[#8]

Capro: What exactly is a FAL? and how much do these guns usually go for, especially an HK91 (real thing)?

Two different weapons. From Belgium, Fabrique Nationale built the "Free Worlds Right Arm" the FNFAL. fnfal.com
Heckler&Koch(coke)from Austria? make the HK 89, 91, 93, 94,etc. hk91.com

An original of either is over 2K.
DSA's excellent STG58 start around 1400 IIRC.

Posted: 7/25/2001 12:19:51 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
What exactly is a FAL? and how much do these guns usually go for, especially an HK91 (real thing)?

View Quote

www.fnfal.com

Posted: 7/25/2001 3:09:11 PM EDT

[#10]

Thanks for all the info. I think I still lean towards the M1A, but I'll have quite some time to consider this, as I'm still paying off my AR15.

Posted: 7/25/2001 3:16:31 PM EDT

[#11]

had an m1a i hated it. Balance was horrible for me. I shoot better with an fal. I guess it's just me but the m1a is over rated. There are many choices as good as the m1a for alot less money.

Posted: 7/25/2001 3:24:24 PM EDT

[#12]

I had an M1A Loaded with a stainless barrel and walnut stock. Sold it before I shot it.

I had an HK 91 and sold it (I did shoot that one).

I still have 2 DSA SA-58 rifles and an SAR-48 (all FAL rifles).

I much prefer the FAL. The M1A is probably more accurate out of the box (and definitely more so if you get a good gunsmith to trick it up), the HK 91 is more reliable, but the FAL combines the best of both worlds. It is ergonomic, reasonably low recoil, and, in general cheaper than the others when you factor in 10 or more mags for the rifle. When I sold my HK 91, mags were going for $20+, now they are significantly cheaper.

Basic (High quality) FAL--$800 for a DSA Stg-58 "factory built" kit gun (post ban). Pre-bans can go for $1500 for an SAR-48.

Basic HK 91--minimum acceptable quality in a post ban is the FMP guns--$1000, pre-ban (real HK) is $1800.

M1A--$1000 for a post ban, $1300 for a pre-ban.
If you want really accurate in a .308, you need a bolt gun.

AFARR

Posted: 7/25/2001 3:50:42 PM EDT

[#13]

You should try some of the guns before making a decision. Also don't rule out the AR10. For this shooter the M1-A seemed unwiedly compared to the HK series. FN...just did'nt trip my trigger. I recently purchased a CETME as a beater companion to the HK, and I actually was very pleasantly surprised, great shooter.

Posted: 7/25/2001 4:37:45 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Basic HK 91--minimum acceptable quality in a post ban is the FMP guns--$1000, pre-ban (real HK) is $1800.
AFARR

View Quote

jesus man where can i get a real preban HK 91 for under 2k there more like 4k for a HK one

Posted: 7/25/2001 4:46:16 PM EDT

[#15]

No they aren't cyrax. I just bought a 91 LNIB for about $2200. And that was with plenty of accessories! An SP89 or a HK94 might be about $4K, but the 91/93 series aren't even close.

brouhaha

Posted: 7/25/2001 5:03:57 PM EDT

[#16]

Ditto RAF, you can have either 30.06 or .308
and there is lots of web gear and other cool stuff. Patton called it the greatest invention
in modern warfare. Camp Perry shooters used it for years. It will out shoot all that euro trash
in the mud rain sleet and snow[smoke]
Its a piece of battle proven history.

Posted: 7/25/2001 5:06:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Now that I have an AR-15, I'm thinking about getting a semi-auto .308. I've looked at Springfield Armory's website, and just a simple plain M1A is very appealing to me. I would just like to know what people here think would be a good higher-caliber accompaniment to my AR-15 would be.

View Quote

Armalite or Eagle arms AR10........[:)]

Posted: 7/25/2001 5:15:08 PM EDT

[#18]

What Black and Green said.

I have an M1, M1A, and an AR10, and shot FNs and HKs. In my humble opinion the 2 best shooting, fun/recoil wise, are the FN and AR10.

Of those 2 accuracy wise it's hands down the AR10.

Everything on it is just like your '15.

Ya, ya, ya, mags are expensive, but by now you must be realizing that this sport is not for the faint of wallet.

Posted: 7/26/2001 4:10:12 AM EDT

[#19]

I have an M1A super match and man is it ever a tack driver. 1/4 inch groups at 100 yrds. But it is heavy 18 lbs with a full 20 round clip and the Springfield Scope on it. The manual says to only use match ammo. Clips are expensive, but man can it ever shoot. Just don't get the Springfield Scopes they are a POS.

Posted: 7/26/2001 4:39:24 AM EDT

[#20]

Aren't there any Vepr fans here?

Posted: 7/26/2001 10:15:10 AM EDT

[#21]

could anyone tell me more on the cetme. i know the basics, im wondering about reliability, mags, acuracy, and if it can use G3 stock, grip, and forend. anyone know...???

Posted: 7/26/2001 6:26:17 PM EDT

[#22]

V-E-P-R matt your not the only fan here.

Posted: 7/27/2001 5:30:14 AM EDT

[#23]

The HK91 has to be the most ergonomically UNcorrect rifle I've ever shot.

Posted: 7/27/2001 5:50:51 AM EDT

[#24]

My CETME is very accurate at 100yards. The fit and finish is excellent. As far as reliablity I am having some trouble. May be the ammo or mags.
When I first recieved it I could not feed more than two rounds without it jamming. There was some overspray in the reciever that I removed, I also did some modifications to the mags (they fit VERY tight). Now I am able to get almost all 20 rounds downrange without jamming. (The first few rounds seem to still cause trouble)

May be just my rifle.....
It is a totally differnt type of recoil. Very fun to shoot. You can actually feel the action working. And for a .308 it feels more like a .22

Posted: 7/27/2001 6:12:33 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
The HK91 has to be the most ergonomically UNcorrect rifle I've ever shot.

View Quote

I have to second this sentiment. You need a 4" thumb and a 7" index finger to work the safety and mag release without taking your hand off the pistol grip. Actually, I can get to the safety with a little work, but the mag release had to be designed by Josh Suckerman.

You can modify the rifle so that you can release the mag with your off hand 'ala the M1A. I think that's a mod that would be worth the money on a 91/93.

Posted: 7/27/2001 6:25:17 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
could anyone tell me more on the cetme. i know the basics, im wondering about reliability, mags, acuracy, and if it can use G3 stock, grip, and forend. anyone know...???

View Quote

I have a Century Arms CETME with the SW Receiver. I personally like it alot, I believe I have one of the few that really didn't have any problems. [url]www.hk91.com[/url] Check this site out for loads of info on the CETME.
The recoil is surprisingly light...Combo of wood furniture + muzzle break + thick rubber recoil pad + heavy actual weight??? The price is relatively inexpensive, around $450, and places like TAPCO have parts available. Worth getting if you're on a budget...like me.
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Waverunner/nypd_02.jpg[/img]

Posted: 7/27/2001 10:46:57 AM EDT

[#27]

Boston's Gun Bible (I bought my copy at Amazon.com) has a thorough discussion of the various 7.62x51 (.308) semi-autos. I recommend it highly along with the DSA SA58 (fnfal)(www.dsarms.com). You might also look at www.fnfal.com for info.
Ken

Posted: 7/27/2001 2:13:47 PM EDT

[#28]

haven't shot or owned m1a1 or hk because they cost too damn much. built fal from stg58 kit and imbel metric receiver, 10 mags, usa parts, canadian mag pouches, dsa scope mount, 4x redfield scope blast to shoot and easy to clean (easier than ar-15!). fal's are rock solid and parts are affordable and easily obtained. shoot military and civ ammo wi no problems. workin on another now.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Thoughts on .308 semi-auto

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