Anyone know about mustangs, mainly a 5.0 GT? Im thinking about those mainly because i know they can be made to be pretty quick and there is alot of after market support for them. But i dont know alot about them, what years have the best efi systems, brakes ect. (I think i want a 89-93). What should i look for if i go and look at a a few cars, any things that go bad if abused?
also, How do they compare to about the same year camaro's and the newer 4.6's?

Thanks,
Chris

I don't know much about Fords, but try the Corral.
[url]http://www.corral.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true[/url]  They probably have all the info that you need.

You have the year right on the EFI.
The manual tranny ones are a little "tail happy" due to short wheel base.
Good luck finding a ford guy to say something nice about camaros.  4.6s -- you're pretty much stuck with what you have with them.  A few bolt-on upgrades are available ....

Well, where to start?  Do you want a mustang?  If you said yes, do you have any idea what you're getting yourself into?

First, if you want a 5.0 don't get anything less than a '94 or a '95.  Best bang for your buck would be a cobra.  They are more expensive, but just like an AR15 in the long run you'll spend more money upgrading the damn thing.  Cobra has 17x8" wheels, 13" brakes, more horsepower, and looks pretty good to boot.  You can find them for 15-20k in good condition.  Plus you'll have the mystique of owning a Cobra.

Oh, and when they're abused, EVERYTHING goes bad.  The whole car will essentially need to be replaced.  That's the nice thing about a cobra - most owners were older (the cars were more expensive) and less prone to driving the car like they stole it.

Don't buy a Fox, I have one and regret it (it was used, and seriously abused).  I've spent so much trying to fix it and make it like a cobra that it would have been cheaper (and less aggrivating) to just have bought the cobra in the first place.  If you can't afford it right now, wait until you can.  It's completely worth it.

4.6 isn't bad either, and you can supercharge it and make a buttload of power.  But they're newer tech, and there are less upgrades for them.  They sound sweet with an X pipe though.

The Camaro is a good, fast, straight line car.  The SS has power on tap and more when you need it.  They handle reasonably well, but the car is sloppy (loose) and I dislike the plasticy interior.  I don't much care for the styling either.  That being said, the LT1 is an amazing powerplant.

It's up to you, but if I had it to do over again, I'd get a Black '94 Cobra coupe.

The corral is a good place to start for basic engine tech.  If you want to know anything about suspension, go to:

[url]http://www.corner-carvers.com/[/url]

If you want to go fast, buy a Chevrolet!!! Just take a look at NASCAR, NHRA, etc. Remember Ford stands for Fucked On Race Day!!!

I agree with Armitage to a large extent, but I don't have a problem with the Fox bodies.  The 1989-1993 body style is my favorite, but it [b]IS[/b] a bit tail-happy.  I disagree as to buying a Cobra.  I think they are overpriced.  If you have a good source of income you can buy a good 5.0LX for a song, then spend your money hopping it up.  However, if you're expecting to float a loan for the car the Cobra might be a better choice.  If you prefer the newer body style, I'd go looking for a '95 5.0 that someone has already done some performance work on.

There are bolt-ons for the 4.6L, but the only thing that really helps that engine is a supercharger unless you want to tear it down and rebuild it with speed parts from the ground up.

As to the Camaro/Mustang decision, the 350 smallblock is a pretty awesome engine in its own right, and with a six-speed there probably isn't a better engine/tranny combination.  It's a damned shame they couldn't build a better car around it.

BTW, I owned an '88 5.0LX, and I currently own a '67 fastback with a 390, and have a 428CJ in the garage I plan to put in it in a few years.

No substitute for cubic inches!

I have a 93 GT Convertible.   Bought it new in 92 and it just turned 40,000 miles.  

The only performance mod's I've had done are...
upgraded 2.73 gears to 3.55
Shorty Ford Motorsports ceramic headers

Thats it.  Still looks brand new.

I agree with Armitage22, get the Cobra your better off in the long run and they also don't depreciate as much. I'll also agree with some of the other posts that they are [b]VERY[/b] tail happy. I scared the pants off of myself a couple of times in my 87 GT.

That being said I am one of the Ford guys, but I have a healthy respect for Chevy's. My buddy has a 97 or 98 Camaro with the LT197, and straight out of the box is a impressive machine. He has a bolt on supercharger, not sure of the brand but he never added it. It's still sitting in the garage. He is looking to sell the car, its a nice price tag email me if your interested and I will get you 2 in touch. The reason he is selling is cause he is probably moving permanently to the Virgin Islands.

I paid $11k for my '94 Cobra. It had a new Cobra (GT-40) crate motor, new T-56 6-speed transmission, brand new Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position S06 tires, and tons of good stuf.. The guy even polished it before I bought it!!

[img]http://www.interworkssolutions.com/pics/stang1.jpg[/img]

Tell that to John Force and Dale Jarrett, Rickey Rudd and Rusty Wallace. [;)]



Don't forget the 40 series Flowmasters.



Two things I always remember, details about Cars/Trucks and Guns. [:)]

SNIPERm88,  rofl.  You know more about my car than I do.  I forgot about my 2 stage Flowmasters.

[rolleyes]

frankly, ford did itself a disservice with the 94 and after body style.  looks like every other car out there.  hell, the oldsmobile alero looks like a 94+ mustang from the rear.  and the newest body style is flat out ugly.  doesn't even come close to looking like a true speed beast.  too short and squat.

Matt S has a 92 5.0 LX coupe.  super fast.  of course, some mods have been made.  the only reason he didn't respond is that he's on business trip these last couple of days.  

personally, i think you're right on with the 89-93 thing.  more bang for your buck since you can get them for less (older) and [b]LOTS[/b] of aftermarket products are available for them.  and for that reason, you can get the 5.0s to run as fast or faster than the cobras.  so buying a cobra for having a cobra is about like buying a colt vs. a bushy or oly:  name on the item.

and that tail thing is cool!

Bah.  With a few choice bolt on pieces a late model mustang will blow the doors off any street big block Ford.  By the time you quit spinning the tires the race will be over.  I agree with most of what ARLady said.  I would'nt buy a 94-95 mustang, don't care for the looks and the onboard computers hamper them compared to the older ones.  I think Cobras are ok but if I was going to spend that kind of money I would buy a Saleen first.  If you really want to go fast put a stroker 351 in it, straight no hassle bolt in.



What is raced and what Joe Blow drives on the street are two different things.  I have never been afraid to race a late model Camaro, overweight pigs even with a 350.  By the way how has Chevrolet done in SCCA lately? The Corvettes keep Chevy close to the Mustangs. If you look at the top Stock/Super Stock classes(A-C)  Mopars and Fords dominate.

Well the new camaros (LS1)are very fast, they are under rated from the factory and can be upgraded to be faster then the vetts (not the Z06), i have a Chevy now, a 71 chevelle malibu, I realy like chevys, but am thinking about the fords because of how easyly upgradeable (is that a word?) they are.

Oh ya, i am just a kid and dont have alot of money and i cant realy get a loan because i am still in school.  So no cobra for me

Thanks

anyone else?

The biggest piece of shit car I ever owned was an '88 LX 5.0 Mustang notchback.  It used to stall out for no reason, like it vapor lock or something.  Let it cool down, it would start right up.  I think it was the cause of at least one failed romance.  I will never buy another Ford car.  Buying a used Mustang is just buying someone else's nightmare.  Best to have a reliable second car, especially if you live anywhere that it snows.

Well im debating geting a mustang or fixing up my chevelle

i have a second car, so im thinking about a 454 BBC with a 12 bolt posi, i already have the TH400 which is what i have with my small block now.

what does it cost to build a desent 454 street motor

There's been a heck of a lot said here that is certainly true of the Mustangs, but honestly I don't see much difference chassis wise between a 88-93 or a 94-98 Mustang, they are all mostly Fox based chassis or "improvements" upon that chassis.



I'm in the market for a Mustang as well and I'd be perfectly happy with a 93-95, don't care if it's one of the more boxy looking 93LX cars or if it's one of the sleeker 94-95s, all I want is a 5.0 in the thing or the ability to put a 5.8 in it.


Problem is, and it's been hinted here already, is finding one that hasn't been beaten to within a 1/2 inch of it's life.   The chances are quite good that most of the 5.0 Mustangs you look at will have some sort of problem due to the car getting beaten like a red headed step child, a real bad spot on the Fox chassis is the rear control arms and the torque box area of the chassis, after a couple dozen wheel hopping burnouts this area starts to give up the ghost.


Seems all the Mustangs here in town have at one time or another been owned by some dumb kid and none of them are worth the type of money people are asking for the damned things, at times I think I'd be better off buying a 4cylinder 93 LX and then spending the time to convert it to a blown 5.0 or 5.8 in proper fashion after taking the time to properly tie the chassis together.




Ian, MY GOD!   I wish I could find a price like that for a Cobra here in California, I would VERY quickly hop on that deal no matter how hard I had to fight for it or loan my life away for it.  It's hard to find a good price on any type of car here.  Occasionally I see a fair price for a Mustang over on the Coast but god only knows how much rust it's got hidden out of the way of prying eyes.


I have a love affair with 5.0 Mustangs but it's likely gonna be a few more years before I have the time or money to dive into one and start working on it.   If you buy used it's a good bet that the car is gonna need work, unless you can find a car that shows honest signs of being owned by an "adult" who took loving care of the thing.   LOL, one of sellers of an "adult owned" 93 GT is asking 11k dollars for his car with something like 40k miles on it, a really good majority of the Mustangs for sale in this town are just HOPELESSLY over priced.

If you are going to tie the chassis together then why do care if the rear control arms are bad?  You should replace those anyway and they are not that much money.  I would just look for a straight body.  Everything else on those cars you can fix dirt cheap.  Every Mustang from 79 is on a fox based chassis.  If you look at the Saleens though that does not stop them from working.

My last car was a 1989 Mustang 5.0 Notchback. It was set up for canyon driving, but it's been at 160mph more than a couple times. It seemed even more stable at high speeds. As well as upgrading the engine, transmission, suspension, and interior and exterior cosmetics('93 GT Fenders and body kit, '92 special edition convertible wing, '99 GT 17" wheels and tires, etc), the most important upgrade in these cars is [b]THE BRAKES[/b].
Do yourself a huge favor if you get a fox body Mustang, and upgrade to 5-lug and 4 wheel discs. These cars can go too fast too quick, and they need to be able to be stopped safely. The brakes are barely adequate with the factory horsepower, and it gets pretty dangerous when you start upgrading to more power(and you WILL).

[:D]


I sold the car to get the money together to move here to AZ. I miss the car sometimes(especially when sitting in my stock Silverado at a stoplight at night next to a Camaro or whatever) But I'm happy to have had something to liquidate to financially let me escape the PRK.

let me help you with that.  sell me the chevelle and you'll be left with getting the mustang.  [:D]

seriously, what year is it? (oops, just read the rest of the thread.  a '71.  well close enough.  i'll still bite) i love chevelles.  want a 68-70 myself.  just can't find one that hasn't been turned into a rust bucket here in indiana.  damn rain, sun, and salt.

by the way, the cobra isn't all it's cracked up to be.  can't remember the exact year, but the GTs actually killed 'em in quarter mile times.  so having the name on it doesn't mean diddly if the engineers (or drivers) can't make it.  and you cannot tinker with it like you can the 87-93 foxes.  and what fun is that?

Zip,

For the bang for the buck factor, I would stay with a 87-93 LX 5.0.  The GT have no mechanical advantage over the LX models, unluss you like the looks, go LX.  The insurance is cheaper on an LX too.

If you can find a coupe/notchback/trunk that is even better.  The unibod's on those are a little stiffer, and they are a little lighter than the hatchback models.  The GT is the heaviest of all.

The '87-'88 models have a speed density computer system.  They are the fasted stock 87-93 mustangs (excpeting the '93 cobra) but are a little harder to modify.

The 89-93 used the Mass Air flow system which is really where you would like to start.  The 91-93 also come with nicer looking 16" wheel (but you will need new anyway).

These cars are not that expensive, especially if you can buy one outright.  That is my advise to you, you don't want a car loan, so just save up the money, and right 1 check for the whole car.

If you stick with 87-93, you will have more performance parts on the market than any other engine (save the Small Block Chevy).  '94-95 5.0 parts are a little more expensive, but still plentiful.

Treetop is right.  The brakes on the '87-93 suck.  I have warped the front rotors big time every time I've run it at IRP (when I lived in Indianapolis)  You can get Cobra brakes for around 1,500 bucks if you do the work yourself.  Unfortunately these require new wheels.  Unless your driving a canyon carver this can wait.  The excpetion is you have a 400 horse motor, you need good brakes yesterday!  My car is a mildly modified '92 notch.  I puts out about 300 HP and the brakes are okay for street use only.  I've gotten older and wiser and don't street race anymore.  Too many places will confiscate (and sell) your car.

I would stay away from the Cobra unless you want to spend big buck on both payments, AND INSURANCE.  Don't forget the insurance aspect.  A friend of mine in Phoenix bought a brand new GT conv. only to find out his insurance was $1300 A MONTH.  He has a bad record, but, Yes, that is correct, 1300 a month.

The nice thing about a 5.0 is that is very warm to modifing, and you can do most of the work yourself.  ARlady and I swapped the cyl. heads on mine in my apt. complex garage!  The 4.6 motors are a litte more difficult, and the parts are more expensive.

Don't waste your time with trying to convert a a 4 cyl. to a 5.0 unless you have a lot of time and money.  The only thing you will be keeping is the interior, the doors, and the unibody.  You will need a whole new suspension system(brakes included), tranny, rearend, wheel-tires.  This a good option for someone that is going for a race machine and had planned to replace all that anyway.  But doesn't sound like something you want to tackle if you need a daily driver.

I would head over to www.corral.net where you will get the best advice on the 5.0 Mustang around.  Good luck, the are fun, reliable (if you take your time and do it right), and affordable if you take your time and shop around.  Both for the car, and the parts.  Make sure your not just buying the most HP, but quality bolt ons as well.

One word about Flowmaster mufflers!  They attract A LOT of attention.  Even from the guys who have red and blue lights on their cars!

Don't bother building a 454, just buy a 502 crate motor.  500Hp and a warranty.  Can't beat the deal.  Or, you can buy a 454 crate motor for considerably less.  Here's a sample: [url]http://www.tunmoreparts.com/crate.html[/url]

Edited to add:  And I agree with everything Matt said, especially about converting a 4-banger to a V-8.

My personal favorite is the 89 Notchback sitting in my driveway.  87-93 Mustangs are by far the best "bang for the buck" cars on the road, all work can be done at home if you are even a little mechanically inclined.

A 93-present Camaro is just to expensive to modify IMHO, you have to yank out the motor from the bottom just if you want to change heads, WTF is up with that?  I'll give the newer GMs credit that they are good performance cars but if you want to make it better than stock you have to spend a ton of loot.  Older camaros may be easier to modify but they are still shitty built cars.

OK, here is the deal. The 00-02 Mustang GT is just now getting faster than the 93 Mustang Fox Body. I agree that the LX is the better model, since it is lighter. Of course your styling choices are yours. Also, as many have stated, most 5.0's have been beat to hell or raced a bunch, so be careful with a used car.
I, on the other hand am a big fan of the F-body (4th gen). I had a 97Z28 with the LT1 and now have a 01TransAm with the LS1. The LS1 kicks ass!!! 310 stock HP and that is underrated for emission purposes! A new mustang GT cannot keep up (stock for stock). The 98+ Camaro/Firebird is the best bang for the buck and there are a lot of easy/free mods to make it even faster. However the bean counters over at GM are killing the F-body in 02. But to me this just makes it more rare, and worth more in the future.

Try these sites
Mustang: www.corral.net
GM: www.ls1.com
Lots of good info.

A MONTH!!!  Wow.  

I just received my insurance bill, $495 every six months.  For a 93 Mustang and a 99 Jeep TJ.  I think that is too much.  [:D]

$495 for BOTH! My damn '91 F-150 alone is more than that!

Well i dont think im going to get a $6000 crate motor, but realy what does it cost to buildup a desent 454, sticking with stock rods and crank and factory head castings.

for those of you bad mouthing the SVT FORD COBRA
here's my little monster

Best 1/4 mile et = 13.6 at 107.30mph
" not bad for a 281ci 4.6dohc modular motor"[:D]
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/NYshooter/98cobra.jpg[/img]


eidited to add year&color 1998 Bright Atlantic Blue

Matt, I only mentioned doing a engine swap because that's only a thought that I'm playing with currently.  I do want to build the car up and the suspension WILL definitely get changed out, I want the chassis to be as good as I can get it before I start but there will be a ton of things that get swapped.  When the engine goes a GR40 K-member will likely be installed before the new engine, basically a completely rebuilt sleeper is what I'm looking at doing.   I just don't want to have to do a lot of "fix it" welding on the chassis to bring it back to life, I really don't want to have torque boxes replaced before being able to continue on with the car.    But like I say it will be a few years before I get to do this so in the mean time I've got a lot of options to weigh.   The plan is to have car that can see both street and track use, not track time being a 1/4 mile at a time but actual road course use at one of the various road courses up and down Ca.   I want to get around 450hp at the rear wheels and use a TKO type 5 speed transmission.

Sorry if I came off as suggesting that he should buy a 4cylinder car and do an engine swap on it, it's just that here there are some positive and negative aspects with each option of either getting a 5.0 car or getting a 4 banger car.


Sad thing is if California didn't force me to play my hand and spend a ton of money in guns, I would have very likely built up or had a Mustang partially built up by now.



And your suggestion about the brakes, that's one of the main reasons I don't like the 89-93 Mustangs, surprisingly I do see quite a few of that body style around here though where people have gone through the trouble of installing 5 lug rotors both front and back.   Atleast the 94-95s often don't need a new set of wheels if you give the cars a brake upgrade and you've got the 17s on there.


Seems most all Ford brakes have a habit of SUCKING!   Something I've gotten very used to over the past few years of having driven Rangers.

yeah, and not bad is about as good as you're gonna get.  it's not meant as a flame at all.  that's a  good 1/4 mile time. but it illustrates my point exactly.

i have a friend with a moderately modified 5.0 that runs a couple tenths to a few hundreds of a second away from 14 seconds flat.  i only point this out to reiterate that the easily modifiable 89-93 5.0s can be made as fast or faster than the extremely expensive/hard to modify 4.6 "modular motor" cobras.

by the way, i don't like the body style all that much, but that color is great.

Every car I've owned was a Mustang ('75,'80,'85,'87).

The '87 was an LX 5.0 and was a Ford factory demo with a few performance goodies. "Motorsport" was printed everywhere in the interior. I understand it was an official demo sent by the factories to magazine editors for them to test and wring out for their articles on the new body style that year.

One thing Ford should have done was install better brakes. They sucked bad.

That car was the quickest vehicle I've ever driven, ridden in, or street raced against. I don't mean the fastest. It was a flame thrower off the line. Had a special gear ratio that I never could get an answer on. Probably in the 3.27 range.

The Flowmaster exhaust really made that car sound sweet. I miss it. Had it from '93-'99.

Yes Ford is coming out with bolt-on performance parts for it at the rate of a slow tickle & all motor add-on are expensive as shit, which I don't mind either. what's pissing me off is they keep changing the internals on this car almost every year.

orginally posted by Matt S:


One correction. 88 California cars came with mass air.  I don't care for the speed density setups on the Fords.  Run a Pro-M mass meter.

Zip,

For what it is worth, here is my two cents on this subject.  I made a project out of a 89-93 style Mustang LX 5.0 coupe(notchback).  I set it up for autocross/roadrace use.  If you have never heard of autocrossing, it is a precision driving event that usually takes place in a big parking lot or similar area.  There are pylons that are set up in a slalom or in gates that you negotiate your vehicle through.  It is a timed event run one vehicle at a time.  I chose this form of automotive sport due to the various challenges it offers.  And my car remains halfway streetable and with the maintenance I give it, extremely dependable.

Zip, you have to ask yourself what do you intend to do with your car once you get it done?  I have nothing against drag racing, but I know a lot of people who have set their car up for this purpose.  Most of these, at least around my area, get rid of them in a few years.  Most of the people in my autocross club have had their cars for 20 year or more.  Since it is a once-a-month event and only on a Sunday afternoon, most wives do not seem to have a problem with it.  Some even show up and watch occasionally.

Would I build a Fox Mustang again?  Maybe.  I know that I have spent quite a bit making my car handle like "like a Corvette".  One thing I have realized, is that if you put money into most vehicles, be it a Mustang, Camaro, Transam,etc., it is money down the tube for the most part.  You had better like the car you choose for a long time, because you will never get your time or your money you spend on it back.  To most buyers, it will still be a used car.  There are exceptions to this rule of course, but in my case if you put(waste) money on a Corvette, you can recover a larger percentage of your investment if you ever sell it.  Heck, even an older vintage Mustang or Camaro, etc. would also be wiser.  These cars made in the last twenty-five or so years do not hold value like there predecessors did.  Your "hobby", if you ever plan on getting married or if you already are, would be best if it is in some way compatible with a family.  I myself am not married at this point, but since I would like to be if I met "Miss Right", I choose to consider these points.

Hope this helps Zip.

Scooter