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Posted: 7/17/2001 8:24:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:26:43 PM EDT
You'd have to be the same height as the barrel and be right in front of it. That would suck if they detected you and got a shot off first!
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:28:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:34:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:52:23 PM EDT
If there was a round in the breech it would be pretty messy. If not it would still put the gun out as it would damage the breach block. Actually 7.62 coax fire into the side of the gun tube won't help it any either. (don't ask me how I know this)
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:56:49 PM EDT
How do you know this?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:58:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:16:47 PM EDT
In basic on final gunnery pratice I was on an old M60 A1 with no night vision during our night firing. I had a trainee TC and he was yappping to the loader while was laying the gun close to the targets. I told him I couldnt see but he said it's ok and just fire on command. SO I did and got a sudden cease fire over the radio. Seems he had my coax gun pointed at the tank next to me on the left side. Chewed up the other gun tube pretty good.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:30:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chuck1: In basic on final gunnery pratice I was on an old M60 A1 with no night vision during our night firing. I had a trainee TC and he was yappping to the loader while was laying the gun close to the targets. I told him I couldnt see but he said it's ok and just fire on command. SO I did and got a sudden cease fire over the radio. Seems he had my coax gun pointed at the tank next to me on the left side. Chewed up the other gun tube pretty good.
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RAMBO! nice. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:34:40 PM EDT
Did you see Me, Myself, and Irene!?
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:15:23 PM EDT
hhhmmm, shot impossible, or 10 million to one. but interesting none the less, i bet it woulf "f" it up bad
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:50:43 PM EDT
If I crawled into a bear cave with a short stick, do you think I could poke the bear in the eye hard enough to kill him?? Exaclty the same outcome.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:59:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:07:41 PM EDT
I think I'd rather take my chances with the tank.[:D]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 11:15:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 5:31:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:14:25 AM EDT
With all the sophisticated sensors, optics, and antennae on the modern MBT, what are the chances of a soft kill? A hit from HE-FRAG type munitions on the frontal arc won't kill an MBT. But I'm just wondering to what degree such instruments are hardened against such hits.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:30:28 AM EDT
From what little I have read on the subject of dis-abling tanks I seem to recall that a molotov cocktail of gelled gas on the engine compartment/air intake should work well.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:43:33 AM EDT
What about one of these gizmos that the cops use to send an electric impulse through a car that won't stop for them. Could you plant one of these, or similar divice, in the path of a tank and "shock" the electronics into not working? I'm sure they have them EMF pulse hardened due to nuclear discharges, don't they?
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 7:51:10 AM EDT
that stuff cant be too hardened, cause i remember a nearbye lightning bolt taking out the commo in a few of our tracks. got a nice little jolt in the process, thats what i get for putting my hand on the antenna base. justin
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 8:34:09 AM EDT
How about a molotov cocktail or grenade down the barrel. The isrealis stopped a syrian (Soviet) tank by dropping a molotov cocktail down the barrel during one of their many wars with the arabs. In my opinion it would be a damned hard shot, unless you were standing in front of the gun. Then they just blow you into a million little pieces.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 9:12:25 AM EDT
I don't know about the impossible shot thing. What's the bore of a MBT. I can get 10 shot groups of 1 MOA from my match service rifle. I could probably do better. No probably, someone else could do much better. That's a little over a 1" group at 100 yards. Muzzle bore has to be around 3" for a tank. It wouldn't have to be aiming right for you either just pointed pretty close towards you as the bullet would still ricochet down the tube. Moving tank would be much more difficult, your mileage may very, subject to change without notice, taxes and license extra.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 9:32:03 AM EDT
I saw a documentary on the Abrams M1 tank. Any problem with the barrel, obstruction or direct barrel hit, is handled by the design of the breech mechanism and internal projectile safeties. The round doesn't become active until fired so there is very little chance of pre-detonation. And the breech blocks on these tanks are massive, most bad explosions will be forced or aimed outward, away from the crew. I think that all artillery rounds have internal safeties to prevent accidental detonation. And have been since WW1. They have some kind of inertial fuse that doesn't become active until fired. Basic safety stuff.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:39:55 AM EDT
Sodie has it right. the round must leave the end of the barrel and rotate three times before it's armed. As for hurting the breachblock lots of luck, those things are very hard and very thick. You should try and change one sometime.I'm afraid all you will do is realy make the crew mad and they have several ways of paying you back. You can knock a tank out several ways but I wouldn't want to try this one!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 11:56:05 AM EDT
Different ways of nullifying the destructive power of a tank: 1. To diminish its sighting/acquisitioning capability, shoot the vision block. Also, set as many fires in the battle area as possible. Modern Tanks use infrared sighting technology to acquire targets (smoke and darkness can't help you nowadays). 2. Shoot the 7.62 coax gun and the .50 cal on the turret. Personally, I think they are more dangerous than the main 105 or 120mm gun. 3. Shoot into the bore like the others posted. It will in all likelihood affect the accuracy of the main gun. 4. Try to physically trap the tank with obstacles. Hard to do but not impossible. One way would be to get it to drag bottom to the point that its tracks cannot propel it. In other words, have a hard surface directly under the belly with deep mud where the tracks are. 5. There is a way to deal with the engine/filtration system but haven't got the skinny yet.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:00:17 PM EDT
That's why you wait until after the gun fires and you can see a light source from inside the gun...... that means the breach is open. When you shoot down the barrel the bullet will go inside the tank and bounce around until everything in there is dead. (I got this technique from the "stupidest gun shop stories" post). Still trying to find that short stick, then all I need is a cave and a bear.[;)]
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 12:20:24 PM EDT
If you care to try the shot without the associated angry bear/short stick phenomenon, check out the Silent Scope II: Dark Silhouette arcade game. There's a tank main gun muzzle shot during the 'Collector' stage of story mode. Highly recommended.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 5:12:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2001 5:23:26 PM EDT by chuck1]
[xx(]
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 5:25:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2001 9:33:23 AM EDT by aggie_cox]
i would think if the tank had just fired and you could see the breech open, then this would place you in the path of the tank's round. therefor YOU ARE DEAD. ive wondered about this since i saw saving private ryan. what if pvt. jackson had gotten a shot off from the bell tower down the bore of the tank before it fired. hmm.....
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 6:13:29 PM EDT
Remember those old war movies where the hero jumps on top of the tank and drops a granade down the hatch and saves the day. Or what about the scene in Red Dawn where the hero jumps on top of the tank and starts shooting the turret with his .45 only to have the tanker slip him a mickey out the hatch while he wasn't looking :( Aint Hollywood funny!
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 6:44:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 9:52:30 PM EDT
Speaking of Red Dawn, I always found that scene where they huddled below the muzzle of the main gun rather interesting. Since that Soviet tank was engaging an Abrams, they'd be using sabot rounds. How many sections make up the sabot for Soviet main gun ammo? 4? 6? Perhaps even 8 sections? I'd sure hate to be nearby when the sabot sections separate.
Link Posted: 7/18/2001 10:26:20 PM EDT
Or how about "Tank Boy" style... (see "The Beast")
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 6:20:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chuck1: If there was a round in the breech it would be pretty messy. If not it would still put the gun out as it would damage the breach block. Actually 7.62 coax fire into the side of the gun tube won't help it any either. (don't ask me how I know this)
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Allright, as an ex-M-60 crewman, I think the barrel was fairly thick. What DOES a burst of 7.62 do to a gun tube?
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 7:35:44 AM EDT
You'd have to be the same height as the barrel and be right in front of it. That would suck if they detected you and got a shot off first!
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What did Mama said?..."Never look down the barrel of the gun..."
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 7:53:45 AM EDT
I don't know about anyone else, but for about 10 seconds I was absolutely furious as I was watching Saving Private Ryan, where after such a good, moving movie that made reasonable efforts at accuracy - and quite a bit of emotional involvement in this film - Tom Hanks blew up that tank with his 45. Then I saw the next plane roar past. [:)] In one of the anti-armor field manuals, there are a number of amazing stories. One of which is a guy stopping a tank with his 45, his shirt, and a zippo. Amazing. But its not like he went out looking to bag tanks in a sporting manner. It's what he had when the tank came after him.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 9:47:29 AM EDT
During the Winter War against the Russians in 1939, us Finns had to resort to makeshift weapons to counter Russian armor since our anti tank capabilities were not too good at the time(different situation in the Continuation War, we received Panzerfausts and Panzerschrecks from Germany and we had more anti tank cannons by then). The Molotov Cocktail went into factory production, many changes were made to it and the match that lighted it also went thru many changes. One method that i haven´t read that would have been used elsewhere is sticking big tree trunks in between the wheels in the track in the front part, then shoot thru open hatches and lob frags in inside.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 10:02:03 AM EDT
How about welding the enemy's barrel in the middle of combat?!?!?! it makes sence
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 10:16:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: I don't know about the impossible shot thing. What's the bore of a MBT. I can get 10 shot groups of 1 MOA from my match service rifle. I could probably do better. No probably, someone else could do much better. That's a little over a 1" group at 100 yards. Muzzle bore has to be around 3" for a tank. It wouldn't have to be aiming right for you either just pointed pretty close towards you as the bullet would still ricochet down the tube. Moving tank would be much more difficult, your mileage may very, subject to change without notice, taxes and license extra.
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Yeah, read my mind on this one. It's not out of the realm of possibility to place a round down the tube. Not a bad training idea; the only question is whether it would make much difference. I don't know if that "little" 180 or so grain copper and lead bullet would make a whole lot of difference to a 3 inch saboted round on the way to 5000fps. Somebody who knows more can chime in here, but I don't think the bore is listed as a target of opportunity for a sniper; instead listed targets are sight blocks, comm antennas, and laser sighting apparatus.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 10:36:53 AM EDT
[b]Something even crazier happened on D-Day![/b] According to Stephen Ambrose's book, "D-Day June 6, 1944: The Climactic Battle of World War II", page 528 - 529: HMS Ajax sent a 6" shell through the embrasure of a German emplacement at the moment when the breech was open and the gunners were loading a shell. The shell exploded in the breech. At that same instant a steel door leading to the magazine below was open, and the fire below set off piles of 155mm ammunition to explode.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 5:27:31 PM EDT
I would think, that at 5000 fps, and who knows what kind of chamber pressure, that 150gr of lead in the barrel would be one heck of a bore obstruction. Then again - it's very small in relation to the bore - maybe not. I wouldn't bet my life on it behaving as I wanted it to from either perspective (inside or outside) "Get your finger out of my gun!! Thatda blowed up in my face!" "Well, it sure as hell wouldn't have done my finger a lot of good either!"
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 7:34:59 PM EDT
rigger the rounds from my coax hit the other tanks bore evacuator and penetrated that and damaging the barrel under it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 7:56:58 PM EDT
If I had to combat a tank (hopefully I never do), I would have a sack of potatoes on hand so I could shove a 'tater or two into the exhaust pipes thereby making the engines stall. Being immobile, the tank is a sitting duck for the ol' "drop the grenade down the hatch" trick. Yup, yup,... that'd be what'd I'd do. :D
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 9:04:58 PM EDT
If you could get a hold of thermite grenades I wonder if you could throw one of those down the barrle and weld the round to the barrle. Or maybe even get the round to cook off? [rail]
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 9:25:40 PM EDT
I think that if you could stick a teenager's head into the bore it would be hard enough to blow the tank up when they fired. This is only a father's perspective.
Link Posted: 7/19/2001 9:48:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2001 9:46:08 PM EDT by cc48510]
Actually, the Thermite idea would probably work and is relatively easy to make. How about an Acetone bomb with Napalm down the barrel. When they open the breech the fire might spread or at least it would make it damned near impossible to load without scarring yourself. Then when they can't figure out what to do, drop a grenade into the tank's barrel and see what happens. Check out the Anarchist's or Jolly Rodger's Cookbook. They have lots of great concoctions that could do damage to a tank. Better yet thow Napalm, Thermite, and Acentone grenades at the tank. The Thermite will burn holes. The Acentone will keep it burning and the Napalm will burn their asses off. They'll probably die of Heat Stroke or asphyxiation. How about a chlorine bomb down the barrel. The residue left over would choke them when they open the breech. Better yet, how about HydroFluoric or Nitric Acid. It would really fuck up the barrel and them when they try to open the breech. Take Acentone, Thermite, HF Acid and Napalm. Fill a bottle with Acetone, then place thermite in the bottle along with Napalm. Now fill a metal tube with Acid and place it in the bottle of acetone. Now, drop it down the barrel. BOOM, one hell of a NAPALM ACID FIRE BOMB. Make sure to time it right or you'll be the one who ends up as ashes.
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