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Posted: 7/12/2001 12:05:15 PM EST
I was trying to think of how I would set up my AR if I had to go off to war like in Vietnam. I know what I think "looks cool" or is "hi tech" but I think my war gun would be as durable as possible. I would go with a 20" HB with A2 sights and a telescoping stock. I would consider a red dot if I could still use my iron sights. My reasoning behind the features is this, while a 16" M4 barrel looks cool you loose some velocity vs. the 20", when my life depends on it I don't want to be making .22 sized hole because the bullet is under 2,700. I would go with the HB vs. the light weight for over heating and durabilty reasons. I would go with the A2 sights for durability reasons. I'm afraid the battery on a red dot would die or the red dot would be broken. I would go with the telescoping stock for size reasons and ease of carrying. What would you choose?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:07:21 PM EST
Selectfire with a .22lr upper and blast reducer!
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:11:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:14:22 PM EST
16" A1 without any of the extra fancy crap or stupid features that add weight, get in the way, stop working, or get me killed. This is all a moot point though, since I would hide behind Imbrog|io and let him take the fire for me! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:23:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:33:34 PM EST
My first though was to go with M16A2, but after raf's post I think the dissipator might work too.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:34:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:36:11 PM EST
the basic configuration with a beta c mag :)
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:54:18 PM EST
FWIW, a friend of mine got this from John Farnam who will soon be holding a class in our area. It seems to support the K.I.S.S. principle: 10 July 01 > > On urban rifles from a LEO friend in Wisconsin: > > "A couple of our officers recently graduated of the Urban Rifle Course at > Thunder Ranch. They both independently made the same observation: > > Many of their fellow students showed up with bipods, various battery-operated > sights, attached flashlights, lasers, and bewildering sling systems, all > attached in miscellaneous ways to their rifles. > > WITHOUT EXCEPTION, those people had taken all that junk off their rifle by > the morning of the third day. All those gadgets had either broken, fallen > off, ran out of juice, or made the rifle so heavy and unwieldily as to render > it useless." > > Lesson: Don't load up your guns with gimmicky junk. Instead, load up > yourself with knowledge, righteousness, and experience. The latter will > serve you far better than the former.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:02:14 PM EST
16" heavy barrel, M4 telestock & handguards along with tritium night sights. I would opt for select fire capability if I had it avaliable to me. The Azalin
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:14:15 PM EST
Standard SP1 20" upper. Light, accurate, reliable. Any questions?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:25:28 PM EST
Bushmaster fixed A1 sight 20" standard weight barrel, Fixed A2 stock and A2 improvements. Chrome Lined Barrel and a tough sight. Tough all the way around. Some of the local door kickers have had problems with collapsing buttsocks not functioning properly. I think an A2 sight is great for the target range.... but vulnerable to damage. Maybe a fancy ACOG or C-more add on if funds allow. It can always be tossed a side in a few seconds, if you've prepared for it. Doug
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:11:40 PM EST
I like my AR just the way it is right now. 20" HBAR with A2 reciever. But I have always thought that the best AR version was the Canadian C7A1. Unless you knew for certain that were going to fight in the Mekong or the Amazon, were there absolutely are no long shots. Then maybe the C8A1/M4A1 with the TA01NSN and the little emergancy tritium irons on top. Either way I would have the spare carry handle with me. No matter how you try, you still are going to have to mount a optic at night in the form of a PVS-4 or PVS-14, or wear a PVS-7 or PVS-14 and have a IR laser mounted on your forend. The white light is strictly a civilian/law enforcement thing. Its only for CYA positive target ID, to satisfy the lawyers. I beleve in using semi auto and aiming for most purposes when using a AR, given a choice I would still include full auto, it saves me the trouble of carrying a shotgun and associated ammo for trench and building cleaning. Three round birst screws up the trigger pull too much. The guns they show in the gun rags should come with a disclamer- you can mount all these, but you wouldnt want to do so all at once.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:25:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:30:03 PM EST
AR15-A1 type with triangle handguards. nothing fancy.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:34:04 PM EST
Lets see, 16" dissipator, (I like the full sight radius), on an A2 Colt lower with four pos. tele stock, standard sling. And i'm saving up for my beta c mag. Don't forget lots of SS109! [heavy]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:37:34 PM EST
Nice Thread... I would go with an M4-AK w/A1C7 upper or an M4-Dissapator w/A1 or A2 sights. Light and simple both come to mind. M4-AK Hmmm I think I can get my hands on both of those. How did that happen?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:39:50 PM EST
Garand Shooter, How much do those setups weigh? the Reflex and laser the ATN and laser Thanks AR.i.t.w.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:43:11 PM EST
Of course my AR-15 A1 w/ case defl. & F/A but I might change it to a 1/9 barrel. GG
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:47:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 2:44:44 PM EST by RYANG]
Hmmmm... M16 with flattop upper, a vortex hider, Beta-C mag, GG&G flip-up rear sight and Trijicon ACOG NSN on a stanag throw lever mount... I think that'd do.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:53:48 PM EST
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Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:01:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: My life does depend on one... My issued FN M16A2, and I trust it very much. My only changes are an ARMS mount (don't remember the number, the one that mounts to the carry handle and drops to go over the barrel) for my Reflex II 12.5 moa triangle mounted scout style at the end of the rail, an ATN scope with .223 cam mounted on an ARMS base so I have return to zero capability, and an Isreali IR laser for use with my PVS-7B's. I keep the ATN scope close but not mounted, but it is quickly available should the situation warrant.
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Its the ARMS #39 BiLevel. I would guess that you are using the ARMS throw lever QD base with it. Does that combination raise the scope high enough that it will mount without taking off the Reflex? I like Reflex sights too, my Uncle has one mounted, of all things, on a Marlin 336 .30/30. That thing is awsome on Pennsylvania deer. There is NOTHING that can get you on target faster than a Reflex. Hmm, if all that fit ou your rifle, it should fit on mine too. Perhaps I should rethink this.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:20:36 PM EST
I know some may poo poo my choice, but I have shot several different versions and configurations and I would take my Bushy shorty AK over most anything. I know, I know, its not a preban, but it has never failed me, I hit point of aim with ease and grouping at longer ranges is very good. Say what you will about the AK brake, it works as advertised and I think it looks Kewl!!! Untill I get a preban bushy 20" A2 this is my choice. [:D] [:D] [:D]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:34:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:39:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:50:30 PM EST
I have an AK muzzle break, but I don't think I would use it in combat. Too much noise. I have a 16" shorty, but I think I would go with a 20". I never really liked any of the battery powered stuff, too undependable. I would probably mount a small 4x scope on the handle, but still be able to use the iron sights. I prefer the A2 sights. [sniper]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:33:27 PM EST
20" A2 FN Government Profile upper with A2 stock. Nice and simple.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:12:54 PM EST
Bushmaster Carbine (14.5in heavy barrel) with "Phantom" flash suppressor, A1 sights, telescoping stock, OD M14 sling, and a sh*tload of 30-rd magazines. Accurate, reliable, compact enough for and has enough range for street fighting (where most combat would probably take place), light enough to carry all day. Nothing to fall off, go "dead", or get in the way. You do have to be extra careful about the flash suppressor, though; after all, you could poke somebody's eye out with that thing.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:14:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:32:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:34:12 PM EST
If it was legal................. I would prefer to carry a standard G36 with an HK grenade launcher underneath. That way, I wouldn't have to worry about cleaning it as much. An ICOW or a G11 would be much better too :) If I had to carry an M-16, I would settle for a M4A1, full auto, with a carry handle std (no flattop), a reflex sight and a M203. This would be if I was in the jungle or an environment where I would be guaranteed hardly any open shots greater than 300 yds. If not, I would get a flattop M4, but with a Trijicon 4x ACOG. themao [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:41:18 PM EST
No flame intended, but have you ever had to carry an M203? I was forced to in Germany (all the new guys were), and I hated that f*cker with an undying passion! They are fun at the range, but absolute HELL to hump around. Having said that.....for a grenade launcher, they are accurate as hell, though. But I still hate 'em.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:59:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:05:29 PM EST
16" HB with A1 upper and tele-stock. It is light and accurate. I do not believe that the velocity difference btween the 20" and the 16" to be great enough to warrant the extra length and weight. Also I would consider my AK47 with polymer furniture and AK74 brake. Always goes bang.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:11:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troy: Forest described the Canadian C7 configuration, which is basically an M16A1 with an M16A2 barrel, and we both seem to agree that this is the best SHTF configuration. [:)] -Troy
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I agree, with full auto instead of 3round burst, Simple rugged A1 receiver, [b]but with the M16A2 ghost ring aperature[/b] and M16A2 plastic. [:D] I also like the M4 flat top with Aimpoint and Knight flip up rear sight.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:23:50 PM EST
Since you said AR I'd go with an AR-10 with an ACOG scope and a telestock. If you meant 5.56 cal,I'd take an M4 with an ACOG. I'd still feel more comfortable with a 7.62 NATO weapon in combat though.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:58:25 PM EST
Knights Armament SR15 M4 w/telestock and: M9 Bayonet ACOG (SR15's come standard with flip up rear) Beta C Bunches of USGI 30's Laser sight (gotta admit, intimidation can be good) And of course, the bible
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:03:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By GeoffM24: I was trying to think of how I would set up my AR if I had to go off to war like in Vietnam. I know what I think "looks cool" or is "hi tech" but I think my war gun would be as durable as possible. I would go with a 20" HB with A2 sights and a telescoping stock. I would consider a red dot if I could still use my iron sights. My reasoning behind the features is this, while a 16" M4 barrel looks cool you loose some velocity vs. the 20", when my life depends on it I don't want to be making .22 sized hole because the bullet is under 2,700. I would go with the HB vs. the light weight for over heating and durabilty reasons. I would go with the A2 sights for durability reasons. I'm afraid the battery on a red dot would die or the red dot would be broken. I would go with the telescoping stock for size reasons and ease of carrying. What would you choose?
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That is Simple..I would either get my AR in either "AK" or "M14" Configuration. The "M14" Configuration while NOT as RELIABLE as the "AK" Configuration will SLAM REALLY BIG BULLETS through small trees and other forms of Cover. The "AK" configuration has the advantage of using the same type of ammo used by the NVA regulars and the Viet Cong...(no problem on running out of ammo). The Ammunition used in M16's during the Vietnam war had a Ball Type Powder that left large deposits of fowling in the gas system and chamber. Even the M16A2 would have jammed on this ammo.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:27:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:36:24 PM EST
Ar10a2 with a 16" barrel.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:41:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 7:40:08 PM EST by MDS]
Originally Posted By MelonPopper: Bushmaster Carbine (14.5in heavy barrel) with "Phantom" flash suppressor, A1 sights, telescoping stock, OD M14 sling, and a sh*tload of 30-rd magazines. Accurate, reliable, compact enough for and has enough range for street fighting (where most combat would probably take place), light enough to carry all day. Nothing to fall off, go "dead", or get in the way. You do have to be extra careful about the flash suppressor, though; after all, you could poke somebody's eye out with that thing.
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I didn't know how to do this. I hope it works. I have a like rig. I would swap the telestock for an A2 stock for the real deal though
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 10:25:55 AM EST
Unless you know for sure that you were going to only be fighting in a city or a jungle, and would never leave there, I would stick with a 20" barrel. The argument works both ways, I say there is not enough weight loss from 5.5" less barrel to justify the loss of velocity- which is important to .223 wounding. Unless space is a concern, like you are a pilot, or a AFV crewman, in which case the the space adavantage of the telestock and short barrel might be the difference between carrying a rifle or not. If I was in that position I would unhesitatingly carry the shorter gun.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 10:28:59 AM EST
M16A1
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