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Posted: 7/9/2001 6:34:46 PM EDT
looking for a good gun safe for rifles and pistols. this is what i want 1.) fireproof 2.) not easy to break into 3.) to heavy to steal the entire thing 4.) around $1000 or thereabouts thanks
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 6:43:05 PM EDT
I don't think you'll find a fireproof safe of significant size for anything less than your quoted price range. Most of the models I've seen are substantially more than that for the fireproof models.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 6:53:54 PM EDT
what makes them fireproof anyways? seems that a metal walled safe should be relativly fireproof to begin with... what do you other guys have? thanks
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:16:47 PM EDT
I have the biggest (i think) american security they make. Fireproof too. It was about $1200.00 when I got it on "special sale". I saw another identical to it recently. Almost $2000.00 now! The prices went up a lot in the last 3 years. Eric BTW the "fireproof interior" appears to be heavy sheetrock. You could save some $$$ if you DIY.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 9:00:53 PM EDT by RBAD]
American Security (AMSEC) makes pretty good safes. I have an older (about 4yrs. old) firelined TL-30 rated safe from them. It's called "The Armory" I got the 30gun interior. It weighs over 3900lbs. when empty and cost me a little over $5000 delivered. [img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad_safe/4.jpg[/img] Take note: I did NOT get an electronic lock on this safe ! In the event of a nuclear attack, terroristic attack or an accident, the EMP generated will definitely be enough to render any electronic lock useless. I have it in my basement and store most of my guns in it. For quicker access, I bought a cheaper (under $1000) Gardall non-fire-lined safe (#6030) which weighs about 200-300lbs and I bolted this down to the floor and wall in my bedroom closet. (when we were building the house, I had the contractors fill in the area between the studs with vertical 2x4's so that I could use lag bolts to secure the safe later on... I replaced the mechanical S&G lock on this safe with a Mas-Hamilton Auditcon electronic lock w/ logging and auditing. I keep just a few guns in this safe knowing that access might be hampered if the lock should fail. (I'd just go down to the basement and use the mechanical S&G lock on the safe down there..) [img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad_safe/1.jpg[/img] [img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad_safe/2.jpg[/img] Make sure to have a good security system installed as well and have your safe(s) contacted and monitored. CCTV is also a nice added touch. Make sure to lock up your time-lapse tape deck in a different area though..
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:56:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 6:55:03 AM EDT by Steve]
I just bought a 30x60x25 Firelined Heritage Safe Model C3060 for $899. Weights 735lbs.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 10:39:12 AM EDT
ok, here is what i need to keep in it...maybe this will help suggestions 2 ARs 2 Ak's 1 lever action 1 scoped rem 700 4 handguns 2 shotguns, 20'' barrel (one breaks in half making it 20'' 1 random 22 cal rifle i want it all to fit...some things im not too worried about, such as the shotguns and 22 rifle, but i figure my rifles will just continue to go up in number so i might as well have room for more... thanks again
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 11:03:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 11:07:21 AM EDT by bwiese]
Folks... See http://www.gunsafe.com I just got myself a Liberty "Colonial 23" safe for around $950 (excl $120 local delivery). HWD = 60"x30"x22"; weight is a tad under 600 lbs. It's firelined (1200+deg for 30 min, Omega certified), excellent S&G mechanical combo lock. Nice granite finish - didn't wanna pay $100 extra for the shiny 'pimp' exterior with hunting scenes, etc. Internal hinges, 5 bolt door. (No bolts on other sides but that's OK to me, not worth the extra $400-$500 or so these extra features would cost on this or other brands; I'd rather have the internal hinges.) Has a reconfigurable interior - I arranged it so I have a central vertical divider, with a horizontal support (i.e., openings for barrels) at support's top. At the top of the safe, with about 10"-11" clearance, I have my pistol shelf. With this safe config you can easily store maybe 16 handguns and, if you're careful, use sleeves to avoid scratches, etc. and arrange things properly, 12-16 rifles. Don't get the electronic lock. I just see it as something less reliable (and pricier!) in a critical situation than an old standard combo lock. Always buy a safe bigger than your immediate requirements. Trust me, your inventory will grow, and you won't wanna waste money selling off an old safe and having to buy a new one. Plus, not only should your guns go in there, but your hicap mags should as well - and perhaps some of your other valuables (silverware? jewelery?) that you want for immeidate local use and don't put in the bank safety deposit box. I love mine. In my bachelor apt (that is, no female influence on furnishings as girlfriend says it's a pit and refuses to stay longer than time req'd to visit the cat) it is the nicest "furnishing" I have - guess it's my "hope chest" ;-) -Bill San Mateo, CA
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:11:49 PM EDT
Stay away from Sportsman Steel Safe Co, in Long Beach, CA. I think they advertise in SGN too. Anyway, I bought the biggest safe they make and received the WORST service ever. Ditto for my buddy who bought at the same time. Always buy bigger, or were you planning on selling all your guns? ;-)
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 6:42:41 PM EDT by 199]
While a bit pricer than some, you can’t go wrong with a Fort Knox (www.ftknox.com). I know you’re not interested in the “General Yeager” series ($$$$$!), but they have some economy models with impressive features. Unfortunately, I don’t know the prices nowadays. If you’re in the Northern Virginia area, there’s a Fort Knox distributor who has a setup at most local gun shows. (My recollection is that he’s Steve’s something or another out of Vienna. However, he doesn’t have a store, he works out of his house.) The Fort Knox website has a 1-800 number, so I’m sure you could track down a distributor through them. Liberty safes are also pretty good; just stay away from the really low end ones. Treadloc is also good (and made in Virginia); however, their safe walls are a little thin. Browning is ok but, to my mind, a little overpriced for what you get (actually, I think their safes are made by Gardall). I’m not a big fan of American Security but I’m only really familiar with their older safes; their newer ones seem to be better. Things to think about: How much weight can your floor handle (to include the safe’s contents)? Fireproofing keeps the safe’s internal temperature down. It also makes the safe heavier and more expensive. Fireproofing takes up a small amount of room in the safe. Often the same safe is available with different interiors. If you’ve got a lot of handguns, you’ll probably want an interior with lots of shelves. Lots of rifles will require a different layout. Assuming the vendor is willing to do it, interiors are easy to special order since they essentially drop into the safe. Usually, safe doors have the hinges on the right and open from the left. You can special order one with the door reversed, if you need to. Do you care if the hinges are internal or external? Fort Knox, for example, uses internal; Browning uses external. Internal look a little nicer and are protected from attack. However, they intrude into the safe a bit. External hinges save internal space and allow the door to open wider. (External hinges aren’t really a point of attack either since there are – or should be! - internal bolts on that side of the door which hold it closed even if the hinges are destroyed.) Incidentally, you can move the safe on a flat floor fairly easily by rolling it on short pieces of PVC tubing – something like the Egyptians did when building the pyramids. If you want to do some serious comparison shopping based on features, I’d be happy to put together a list of things to look for. However, this gets complicated fast. Good luck!!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:00:04 PM EDT
Greetings all, Gun safes have a hidden flaw. They shrink significantly after installation. Buy two sizes larger than what you think you need. You get a few years use before you add one or replace it with a bigger safe.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:09:56 PM EDT
I don't know where you guys shop, but down here in Texas it would be fairly easy to get a decent size safe fire-protected for under $1,000. In my research (I am looking for a safe myself), it seems that $1,000 is the "break-point" where they start to get VERY expensive...but that's with the fancier interiors, exteriors, bank vault handles, electronic codes, etc. etc. You can buy a Cannon brand that holds 12 rifles and has shelves and is firewalled for $995 at the local sporting goods shop...
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 8:03:35 PM EDT
ok, thanks all... - 199 : yes i think a list of things to look for would be great. i live in SW Va now, i have family in Vienna, gonna be up there in a few weeks, maybe i can check out the guy up there. thanks again
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:14:08 PM EDT
Below is a list of things I’d look for in a safe in the $1000 or so price range. Keep in mind that any decent $1000 safe will probably keep out some drug addict who’s trying to supply his habit. Alternatively, a knowledgeable attacker with a cutting torch can get into any $1000 safe with distressing speed. The items below are important more to insure that you get good value for your money. It’s only half true that “you get what you pay for”. While you probably aren’t going to get a really good safe for just a little money, there are plenty of vendors who will gladly sell you a poor safe for a lot of money. Items: UL listed as a residential security container – this should be easy to get in this price range. (Don’t get this confused with an UL rating for fire protection.) Sargent and Greenleaf (S&G) lock - either mechanical or electronic. A spy proof dial is nice if prying eyes (kids, wife, etc.) are an issue. The spy proof dial has a ring covering the combination numbers except for a small window at the top. (RBAD mentioned Mas-Hamilton locks in his post – these would certainly be acceptable but I doubt you’re going to come across one.) The safe should have at least two relockers, which will automatically relock the locking mechanism if parts are knocked out of it. Relockers are (or at least should be) spring-loaded and work something akin to mousetraps. One relocker would be in the lock and will lock things up if the dial is pulled or knocked out. The other would be outside the lock and would engage if the entire lock is punched out. Without relockers, the attacker can insert a large screwdriver (or such) into the hole made by knocking the dial or lock out (or another hole drilled in the door), and simply turn the locking mechanism open. More expensive safes may have additional relockers, sometimes with glass triggers – but not in this price range. Needless to say, when a relocker engages, it’s going to be very difficult for anyone, including you, to get into the safe. The active locking bolts projecting from the door should be protected by hardened steel plates or by angled steel deflector plates along the inner sides of the safe’s side wall(s) near the door. This is to prevent holes from being drilled into the safe’s side wall and the bolts attacked. (There’s one exception to this that I know of - Treadlok has a different way of deterring this kind of attack.) Different safe models have different steel thicknesses in the walls and doors. A 1/4 th inch door and 10 gauge walls would probably be a good deal in this price range (though it’s actually pretty thin). Beware of thick looking doors that are actually two thin pieces of sheet metal with fireproofing in between. Different manufacturers use different quality steels in their safes. I’ve never seen this actually specified, not that it would mean anything to me anyway (about the only steels I know are 4140 and O-1). Soft and/or thin steel is easy to cut into with a grinder or even an axe. If noise is not an issue, an attacker can simply cut an opening in the side of the safe. Also, the side walls are typically made of a continuous piece of steel that is folded, while the top and bottom are welded on. Depending on how well the safe is welded up when it’s made, the top can be especially vulnerable an attack with an axe or sledgehammer. The bottom is also vulnerable if the safe is not securely bolted down. (continued)
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:15:20 PM EDT
(continued) A reinforced doorframe will deter prying the door open. This reinforcement is accomplished by folding the safe’s walls in a few times along the doorframe or by welding steel strips along the doorframe. A recessed door that fits tightly in the doorframe is desirable. Other things being equal, more bolts are better than less. Better safes will have active (moveable) bolts all around the door; less expensive safes will have deadbolts (non-movable) on the hinge side. In this price range, you’re probably going to have to settle for deadbolts, which is ok. Just about any safe has at least a breakable pin in the locking mechanism’s external handle to prevent excessive force from being transferred to the locking mechanism when too much force is applied to the handle. Better safes use a clutch, which can’t be damaged. Just about any safe has a hardened steel plate inside the door and in front of the combination lock mechanism (but behind the dial) to protect it and nearby mechanism parts from attack. Better safes will have ball or roller bearings imbedded in the plate to make drilling it more difficult. Depending on the lock mechanism, there may be additional plates elsewhere in the door. Safe doors are heavy – ball bearings in the hinges make them easier to open and reduce wear. While a minor feature, look for a friction detent to hold the locking bolts in the withdrawn position when the door is open. Otherwise, the locking mechanism may tend to close itself and project the bolts. If you forget to fully open the mechanism again before you close door, the projecting bolts will hit the safe, damaging the finish. On a different note, please keep in mind that any safe poses a suffocation hazard to a child; a fire resistant one especially so since it has gasketing to keep out heat and is somewhat sound proof. Even if there are no guns in the safe, keep it locked if there are children about. (I’m old enough to remember kids dying in empty refrigerators!!) I hope I haven’t simply confused you. I guess the point I’m really trying to make is that there are reasons why a couple of almost identical appearing safes can vary significantly in price. For what it’s worth, Treadlok (www.treadlok.com) is in Roanoke, VA. If that’s close, you might want to see if they have any discontinued safes there at a good price.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:21:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 11:37:08 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
Oops wrong thread
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:26:34 PM EDT
so thats what imbrog|o's 38 looks like
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:04:29 AM EDT
I've had a Sportsmans Steel safe for years and have no complaints other than it's too small.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:48:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ctrmass: I have the biggest (i think) american security they make. Fireproof too. It was about $1200.00 when I got it on "special sale". I saw another identical to it recently. Almost $2000.00 now! The prices went up a lot in the last 3 years. Eric BTW the "fireproof interior" appears to be heavy sheetrock. You could save some $$$ if you DIY.
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Yes it is sheetrock. 5/8 fireboard. You can get it at any home center. The only thing that might be tricky is mounting the rock on the door. If you want extra fire protection use 2 layers of the fireboard to make it 1 1/4. That happens to be NYC fire code for dividing walls in office buildings. It is actually a good fire rating double 5/8.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:15:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 9:04:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkaerE: looking for a good gun safe for rifles and pistols...
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See my safe buying report on TFL. Here's the link: [url]www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=66842[/url] I tried to post it here too but it was too long. This board only allows 3500 char per post, my report was about 3 times that amount. Good luck with your purchase.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 10:15:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 6:27:33 AM EDT
I had a welder friend build my first safe. He did a real good job for a few hundred dollars. It was cheaper than the good commercial, but MUCH better than the cheap sheetmetal ones. I have twin key'd alike locks, made to my dimensions, painted the color I like, and he had the metal bending shop put a flange across from the lock side to keep the door on incase someone busted the welded on hinges he made. For around $600, I feel I got a good safe,but, yes it's too small. I'll be buying a Browning here locally (they are on sale during our Rodeo Days Celebration). I can choose a couple of Sterling models for under $1000.00. Shop around!
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 2:03:42 PM EDT
I got a larger one than I could really justify. The larger the better...they DO shrink. I did intensive shopping on line and off before settling on a Ft. Knox Titan Series. I got the model 7241 which is 72" tall 41" wide and 27" deep. You can buy similar sized safes for less money than my $3,400 price. But I do not pay for firearms insurance and consider the safe my provider. Several options I highly recommend in order of importance to me: 1. Interior Lighting. 2. Door mounted handgun hooks/holders. 3. Electronic Lock. This is my second safe. I quickly out grew my Browning. I now use it for ammo and less used guns. If you can afford it, spend more money and get a bigger safe. Good luck
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 7:05:54 AM EDT
Lucky for me.....uh, wait, let me re-word that[B)]! CONVENIANT for me, because I am in a wheelchair I have a ramp that goes right to where I wanted mine. It really did help alot but you can imagine I would have rather dragged it up a flight of stairs if things were different.[:)]
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