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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 7/9/2001 7:42:49 AM EDT
[URL]http://www.washtimes.com/national/20010709-30466182.htm[/URL] The Corps should kick her ass out the back door!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:48:42 AM EDT
The next run through the park oughtta be Everglades Nat. Park..and they should tie a couple of pork roasts arround each of her ankles...bet she keeps up then...
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:55:15 AM EDT
One suggested the decision is an example of an increasingly coed military toning down its warrior culture to accommodate women.
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And to think that I get flamed when I point shit like this out. This really saddens me that this is happening in the Corps now. But I guess it's better to be politically correct than to be combat ready. The "warrior" tradition is gone. Bring on the next war. Americans need to wake the hell up.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:05:26 AM EDT
It's nice to know that our armed forces are being systematically reduced to a bunch of snivelling, politically correct panzies. I can't believe this bullshit! The next thing to happen will probably be some wheel chair bound bleeding heart who will sue the military on the grounds that it is not equal opportunity. Not to say that the two go hand in hand, but there is bound to be someone out there who will try it.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:07:14 AM EDT
The problem is that now the military is required to make everyone FEEL good about themselves. She was "demeaned" becasue she couldn't keep up?? Imagine what she'll feel like getting SHOT because she couldn't keep up. Then two MORE soldiers would be endangered carrying her to safety. Sorry folks - but women DO NOT belong in the combat military. NO WAY, NO HOW, NOT EVER. ( an exception may be made for support personnel in NON-front line positions. The military is about fighting and killing. Only those most capable of fighting and killing need apply. The military has become a social experiment, intent on soothing egos of those who want to PLAY military, but are NOT up to the task. Go ahead. Flame away. Shoot the messenger. But the bottom line is that you KNOW that I am right. Deal with it.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:16:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 8:15:11 AM EDT by Hellraiser]
Her candy-ass does not deserve to be called a Marine. If you cant hack it, then you don't belong. Personally I never felt women should be allowed in the USMC. I don't mind them in the military, but not the USMC where everyone is a combat soldier.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:02:41 AM EDT
Makes me want to puke,,if I ever see the puke of a lazy bitch I'll spit on her,,,"Semper Fi"
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:03:54 AM EDT
Hey look at the bright side. When the Gov. decides to come get our guns, these will be the types that sign up. They shouldn't pose that much of a threat.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:09:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The problem is that now the military is required to make everyone FEEL good about themselves. She was "demeaned" becasue she couldn't keep up?? Imagine what she'll feel like getting SHOT because she couldn't keep up. Then two MORE soldiers would be endangered carrying her to safety. Sorry folks - but women DO NOT belong in the combat military. NO WAY, NO HOW, NOT EVER. ( an exception may be made for support personnel in NON-front line positions. The military is about fighting and killing. Only those most capable of fighting and killing need apply. The military has become a social experiment, intent on soothing egos of those who want to PLAY military, but are NOT up to the task. Go ahead. Flame away. Shoot the messenger. But the bottom line is that you KNOW that I am right. Deal with it.
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[size=6]AMEN!!!!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:31:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 9:31:08 AM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:52:45 AM EDT
Nothing worse than a shitbird who writes to congress.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:54:18 AM EDT
Keep practicing your shooting skills, gentlemen. When the next enemy blows thru this crowd, guess who they are going look to next? They don't keep registering for the draft for nothing.[:D]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 10:05:31 AM EDT
Is this correct, a 9-10min mile for 3 miles and 45 crunches, and only twice a year? "In the Marine Corps, which places a strong emphasis on physical conditioning, a male must be able to run three miles in at least 28 minutes; a female in 31 minutes. Males and females must be able to perform at least 45 stomach-toning "crunches" in two minutes."
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 10:11:20 AM EDT
Hmmmm.... No mention of that thing, what was it?? You know, that thing, whatcha call it?? Oh yeah-- THe FRIGGING CHAIN OF COMMAND!!!!! As long as we mollycoddle women, letting them crap on things like the rules and traditions, such as that quaint carryover from the days of yore, maintaining the chanin of command, this crap will continue. She should be courtmartialed. Running to congress because of a miniscule thing like her "feelings." Then we reward her by hitting the panic button and cancelling the runs. What's next, these BDUs make my ass look big?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 11:21:46 AM EDT
I think you guys are being a little harsh. I mean, the officers were YELLING at the laggards to go faster! That sort of abuse is a real detriment to a Marine's self-esteem and sense of personhood. And 30 minute runs? Hel-LO? Don't they have an invention called the HUMMV? Why do military support types need to be conditioned like Olympic atheletes?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 12:45:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 12:51:00 PM EDT
I agree with all those who believe that women have no place in a combat line unit, except the big hairy bulldyke lesbos. Man those things are scary!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 12:55:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 1:26:27 PM EDT by rg00red]
One, you [redacted] act as if ALL women in the military act this way, they don't. Two, you seem to think that you are better at killing because you are men? I would be delighted to introduce you to some women who were VC snipers and sappers, who killed big, bad [redacted] like you. Women want to serve their country as much as the men do, it just so happens that [redacted] like you make their lives hell for wanting to protect your stupid butts. I notice that you [redacted] don't get into an ass tearing sissy fit when men who can't keep up do the same thing by complaining to Congress. Believe you me, I saw more [redacted] men (very similiar to you [redacted] inspectors) as a DI than I saw whiny women. raven: We had thousands of jeeps and trucks in Vietnam, but I distinctly remember doing a LOT of walking. 30 minutes to run 3 miles isn't that hard, that's a 10 minute average mile, a light jog. Troops need to be in top shape, because the rifleman spends most of his time beating feet. Hangfire is more than correct, they should kick her ass out of the Corps. The military need not tone down anything to accommodate women, they just need to keep things going and tell Congress to fuck off. [i]Edited to remove items not in compliance with the board Code of Conduct. If you are quoting someone else, then indicate so. If these were YOUR "enlightened" original thoughts, then clean up your act and comply with board policy by eliminating personal insults from your posts. Thank you. The Mgmt[/i] Hmmm... Interesting that you have no problem with them pouncing on somebody who they don't know. Why don't you censor their posts? I'm sure that if I used all the same [redacted] words to agree with them you wouldn't have a problem. The thread was entitled "CRYBABY BITCH..." if I remember correctly. Hypocrisy is a beautiful thing, isn't it?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:19:43 PM EDT
"Military sources told The Times an officer wrote a letter of complaint to Congress and the Pentagon..." There is no mention that the person who complained is female. The text shows only that the person is an officer. It's one of those pathetic slobs who can't handle getting picked on. I'll bet his fitness reports glowed as well as his running ability.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:24:13 PM EDT
rgOOred- W T F ?!? Your failure to recognize raven's not so subtle use of irony weighs against this, but here goes. Where to start? OK< name 1 MALE who successfully totally bypassed the chain of command and went to congress over a matter as trivial as self esteem, let alone FOR ANY REASON. You cannot. If you could, I say courtmartial HIM. Wrong is wrong, and I am consistant. But the rules aren't bent for guys, are they? That's kinda the point here. Did a male recruit ever survive going over your head, even to the LT, or did you stub him out like a spent cigarrete? Next, I didn't mention ANY female other than this POS, so spare me the valiant sprint to save all women in the military. The fact that this POS on wheels got away with this is NOT reduced or eliminated just because other women excelled in your eyes, any more than a male failure should be excused because Sgt York was a guy. As a DI, YOU know better than any that a major purpose of boot is to weed out the cannots, not hold their hands so they don't feel bad. Last, if I'm a pussyboy just because I criticized this failure, I guess I'll just bend over.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:30:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 1:31:10 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Stealth: "Military sources told The Times an officer wrote a letter of complaint to Congress and the Pentagon..." There is no mention that the person who complained is female.
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Read the entire article. This is from the opening paragraph
The Defense Department is investigating a mandatory training run at a major armed forces command after a female officer complained to Washington that the weekly jog was demeaning.
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I personally have no problem with women in combat if that is what they want to do. However we must remember that they want EQUALITY. This means no different set of standards based on gender and it also means no lowering of existing standards. I do get tired of women saying they are just as capable as men and then ask that the standards be changed, as the first woman at the Citadel, who wanted all kinds of changes. I believe that a woman should be allowed to do whatever, if she is capable under existing regs.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:38:49 PM EDT
If she can't keep up, then she shouldn't be a marine. Now, I know alot of women who can do the 9-10 mile for 3 miles and 45 crunches. But, if this one can't there should be no exceptions. These people are supposed to be defending this country, what ever happened to Basic Training. These people should stop complaining. It isn't like she was drafted. She volunteered and should be held to the same standards as everyone else. Personally, if a woman can keep up, kill, and fight as well as the guys, let her in. if she can't, boot her ass.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:40:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stealth: "Military sources told The Times an officer wrote a letter of complaint to Congress and the Pentagon..." There is no mention that the person who complained is female. The text shows only that the person is an officer. It's one of those pathetic slobs who can't handle getting picked on. I'll bet his fitness reports glowed as well as his running ability.
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What report are you reading? "... female officer complained to Washington that the weekly jog was demeaning. " Translation: "I'm a BAM (Broad Assed Marine) and I don't like the way my ass bounces up and down when they make me run."
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:41:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 1:38:49 PM EDT by rg00red]
CIT: Actually I was referring to the [redacted] at the top of the page, if you read their responses perhaps you would realize this. If her chain of command were the perpetrators, than she couldn't readily go to them to complain, could she? Basic is meant to weed out those who cannot hack it, but it shouldn't be used to DESTROY people. I've yelled, used the solar plexus, and used various other "learning" tools, but there comes a point when abuse is intolerable. Besides that, the article cannot possibly shed enough light on the subject for you or I to comment on her behavior. Yelling is used as a temporary fix, and should always be followed up later by a chat with the recruit regarding how they need to perform. She most likely didn't receive this chat, just the abusive language. When I bitched a recruit out I always brought to my office later the same day to discuss what they need to do to be in my Corps. It was never abusive or derisive and I was able to weed out people who couldn't hack it without completely destroying their egos (which is important).
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:50:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 1:50:49 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Is this correct, a 9-10min mile for 3 miles and 45 crunches, and only twice a year? "In the Marine Corps, which places a strong emphasis on physical conditioning, a male must be able to run three miles in at least 28 minutes; a female in 31 minutes. Males and females must be able to perform at least 45 stomach-toning "crunches" in two minutes."
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Those are the absolute minimums. Mens PFT as I remember for class 1(Max points for promotion); 3 mile run in 18 minutes 100 sit ups in 2 minutes 20 pull ups I don't remember what the WM's had to do. I never paid much attention to them. Also the twice a year thing is mandatory. Most commands as I recall test every couple months some times more often than that.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:02:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rg00red: I've yelled, used the solar plexus, and used various other "learning" tools, but there comes a point when abuse is intolerable.
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I dunno. Marines are being trained to deal with people who want to kill them. Seems to me that anything short of killing them (within reasonble limits) that helps them to deal with people who want to kill them is a GOOD thing, 'cuz it helps to keep them alive.
Originally Posted By rg00red: Besides that, the article cannot possibly shed enough light on the subject for you or I to comment on her behavior.
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From the article: [i] The Defense Department is investigating a mandatory training run at a major armed forces command after a female officer complained to Washington that the weekly jog was "demeaning." Another source said part of the complaint is that the run subjected slow runners to ridicule from faster participants. [/i] So, "ridicule" and "demeaning" comments are "intolerable" now??? I think this "Marine" (and I use that word VERY loosely) needs to lean the old addage "Sticks and stones may brake my bones, but ridicule will never hurt me."
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:05:32 PM EDT
rg- I understand where you're coming from. As a DI, if things were "intolerable", and believe me, they'd better be, going to the next one up the chain is understandable. Agreed. She went to CONGRESS and THE PENTAGON. I think that's an astronomical difference. Maybe the chain of command was not responsive because, in the scheme of things, our fighting forces have more important things to worry about than this woman's hurt feelings because SHE RUNS SLOW. News flash, there is a cure for that: PT yourself. Have some frigging pride. I mean EARNED pride, notsomething handed down from above like those damned black "berets." Also, she is an officer, meaning she's NOT just a dumb recruit who didn't get the right pep talk. You'd think she'd have a better handle on her emotions. As I read it, she was ridiculed because she ran slowly. You, as a former DI, really have a problem with that? When we have the next war, God help us if the enemy ever figures out that they can cripple us using insults about our running style. My bottom line, she's signed on to kill people, or at the very least help others kill people. And she's all in a tizzy because of such nonsense. Get a frigging backbone. Insults only hurt if you let them. Don't tell me you didn't teach that, indirectly, to every recruit you ever trained.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:08:21 PM EDT
Funniest line of the day -
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: When we have the next war, God help us if the enemy ever figures out that they can cripple us using insults about our running style.
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[:D]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:09:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:12:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: The problem is that now the military is required to make everyone FEEL good about themselves. She was "demeaned" becasue she couldn't keep up?? Imagine what she'll feel like getting SHOT because she couldn't keep up. Then two MORE soldiers would be endangered carrying her to safety. Sorry folks - but women DO NOT belong in the combat military. NO WAY, NO HOW, NOT EVER. ( an exception may be made for support personnel in NON-front line positions. The military is about fighting and killing. Only those most capable of fighting and killing need apply. The military has become a social experiment, intent on soothing egos of those who want to PLAY military, but are NOT up to the task. Go ahead. Flame away. Shoot the messenger. But the bottom line is that you KNOW that I am right. Deal with it.
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No flame from me. I agree 100%. Women need to be home, having babies. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:17:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By critter_FR: No flame from me. I agree 100%. Women need to be home, having babies. [:)]
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I KNOW you say that in jest, perhaps in poarody of the sterotype, but... Raising children is one of the highest callings any human being can ever undertake. What chaps my hide is that the feminazis and the Leftists have sold women a bill of goods that "having babies" and raising them is "demeaning" work, causing women to feel guilty about doing it. And when you see the consequences of these children abandoned for career goals (ala Columbine's Harris and Klebold) then you REALLY get mad. At least I do. Grrrrrrrr.... (okay, breathe deep, Mark - lighten up a little.....)
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:48:03 PM EDT
garandman: While I believe that there should be parents at home, in today's world it just is not possible to do. Many women are single mothers and NEED to work to support their children. I was the odd kid because my mother was single back in the '50s, this is not so today. She worked hard and still took time to raise a decent kid. The backlash against the established male domination in the workplace and the "woman belong at home raising kids" attitude came after WWII. Woman played vital roles in the production of war supplies, ferrying aircraft to their pilots, testing equipment, training aerial gunners, as well as the role of nurses very near the combat zones. These women were scoffed at and told to go home because men can do it better. Considering that our major strenght was our ability to outproduce everybody else in the munitions and arms business (an indusrty that was dominated by female workers during the war) the idea that women aren't up to snuff is idiotic and truly sexist. The Soviets used a great number of women in their armed forces, several of whom received the Order of Lenin. Oh, and what's stopping you from being an at home dad?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:54:07 PM EDT
My bad. And it was in the first paragraph. Think I'll get some new glasses.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:32:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:35:07 PM EDT
The article states a female officer, doesn't specify if it was a Marine, Solider, sailor or Airmen. Since it is joint command unless the service is specifically mentioned you cannot assume just because the CINC for that command of one service that the person that wrote the letter is or isn't of the same service. Since they are joint assignments you find people in them from all the branches. I can honestly say I don't think it is a female Marine or Army officer that made the complaint. They are use to having to PT, and they may discuss among themselves how hard the PT is, but you don't complain in public or to congressmen about it. Things like happen more in the Air Force and the Navy since they are less likely to have to PT all the time.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 5:20:50 AM EDT
If you guys are this worked up over this issue, it's a good thing you haven't seen the Discover Channel/TLC piece on Marine Boot Camp. Some of you guys would be positively incoherent.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:31:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wadman: If you guys are this worked up over this issue, it's a good thing you haven't seen the Discover Channel/TLC piece on Marine Boot Camp. Some of you guys would be positively incoherent.
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I've seen it. And for ANYONE who has seen it, you cannot be in your right mind and say that the females in the unit DO NOT slow down the unit as a whole. The Marine Corps motto is "leave no Marine behind." And it shows. They are CONSTANTLY slowing down to help some female over an obstacle - a situation that WOULD NOT happen with another male Marine. Sorry - but that's REALITY. Embrace it. It will make you feel ALOT better (NOT directed at Wadman [:D] )
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:35:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rg00red: garandman: Oh, and what's stopping you from being an at home dad?
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Uhmmm, the fact that I don't have any children, perhaps???? My wife and I have BOTH agreed that should we have any children, she will stay at home and raise them. She's even more adamant about it than I am. And it NEVER ceases to amaze me that casual attitude and mindset that says women can't stay home and raise children, and that's OK, even tho is PROVEN FACT that that is detrimental to children. Just becasue that's "the way it is" DOES NOT make it RIGHT. What it makes it is "convenient."
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:04:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garden weasel: Nothing worse than a shitbird who writes to congress.
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Competition within all branchs of the service for officer promotion virtually assures that future evaluations for this whiner may not be outstanding. The chain of command has a long memory not matter what branch.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:30:17 AM EDT
Garandman, I didn't even remember the slowing down issue. And that's not an issue to me anyway because the unit protects its own. The parts that really struck me were things like renaming the obstacle course to be the "confidence" course. Then there was the rampant coddling (for lack of a better word). If a recruit isn't having a good day, the DI talks to him/her. If a recruit's foot hurts during a run, a DI will sub in for him/her. Now I realize this was a TV documentary and that it may not accurately portray actual training. Perhaps it was softened in an attempt to promote enlistment. But it sure didn't engender a good feeling about the preparedness of our nation's warriors.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 8:50:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rg00red: The Soviets used a great number of women in their armed forces, several of whom received the Order of Lenin.
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And none of them called the Kremlin or the politburo to complain either!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 8:59:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven: I think you guys are being a little harsh. I mean, the officers were YELLING at the laggards to go faster! That sort of abuse is a real detriment to a Marine's self-esteem and sense of personhood. And 30 minute runs? Hel-LO? Don't they have an invention called the HUMMV? Why do military support types need to be conditioned like Olympic atheletes?
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Marines need to be "conditioned like Olympic atheletes" because when the 200 pound Marine next to Missy gets hit and goes down, Missy is going to be expected to pick him up and SAVE HIS ASS, not walk away and dial 911-HUMMV! Thats why!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 9:08:59 AM EDT
Don't you understand, it is PC to be less than you can be! It is more important that we look good than do good. I have a couple of women with badges that need to stay home with the kids. But also a couple that I would go into any situation with. Candy ass is candy ass, male or female.
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